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who created god?


Jane6
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7 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I heard it was a turtle.

In the creation stories of the Lenape and Iroquois people, the Earth is created as soil is piled on the back of a great sea turtle that continues to grow until it is carrying the entire world. Many indigenous tribes in North America refer to the continent as Turtle Island to this day.
But i never about that turtle, are you serious or just ironic?
 

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4 hours ago, Jane6 said:

In the creation stories of the Lenape and Iroquois people, the Earth is created as soil is piled on the back of a great sea turtle that continues to grow until it is carrying the entire world. Many indigenous tribes in North America refer to the continent as Turtle Island to this day.
But i never about that turtle, are you serious or just ironic?

Completely serious. Hindu and Chinese mythology also speak of the world turtle. The question then becomes, who created that turtle? It's an infinitely regressive question.

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Those ancient traditions are where Terry Pratchett got Great A'tuin

Quote

The world rides through space on the back of a turtle. It’s one of the great ancient myths, found wherever men and turtles were gathered together; the four elephants were an Indo-European sophistication. The idea has been lying in the lumber rooms of legend for centuries. All I had to do was grab it and run away before the alarms went off.

The North American First Nations traditions are not particularly concerned with the creation of deities, or even of the world. The primary moving spirit or spirits is/are present before the story begins; the stories are about building the world, bringing the people into it and establishing their relationship with the other inhabitants, natural and supernatural, of the world they share - share being the most important word. As soon as man arrogates dominion to himself, he loses his kinship bonds, his freedom from care, his animal spirit: that's what The Fall signifies also.

In some ways, native origin stories come much closer to modern notions of evolution and anthropology than the Book doctrines ever could - exactly because the biblical stories are so concerned with creation and a Creator and establishing a human hierarchy. 

Oops, forgot the link https://apilgriminnarnia.com/2014/03/26/turtles/

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To the specific point of the OP, if we consider the God of the Bible, I think it could be argued that the books of the Bible, from Old testament through the new testament, could be viewed as the progression of the creation of that god.  That is, over time, the definition of that particular god developed as more people wrote about it.  Admittedly, it is difficult, if not impossible to define exactly how that progressed, particularly since the Bible is an anthology, not a single book, but it appears to me there is a trend from a God of Wrath and War toward a God of kindness.

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People did.

Religion is the original 'social engineering'.
When mankind became a social animal, as opposed to a familial animal, there was a need for uniform moral values across that society, and religion, with one or many gods, provided a way to 'control' people, such that they fit in with that society.
Essentially, for better, god(s) and religion provided a way for a few to exert control, and direct the evolution of that society, and, for worse, a way for a few ( unscrupulous ) people to exert control, and direct the evolution of that society.

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On 5/29/2022 at 8:03 AM, Jane6 said:

Who created god ?

Joe

11 hours ago, Sensei said:

Please don't abuse your free will or sysadmin of the Universe will log you out (aka "sudo ban [person-id]").. ;)

 

A minecraft reference out of all things... haha

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On 5/29/2022 at 11:03 AM, Jane6 said:

Who created god ?

Why would he have to be created?

We talk about infinity in the forums all the time. How about always was.

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On 5/29/2022 at 5:03 PM, Jane6 said:

Who created god ?

As suggested by other members, gods were invented (not created, I would say) by humans.

God is a place holder for everything we don't understand.

Patterns can be found in the way different communities of humans fashion their deities. It is no coincidence that monotheisms have been developed by desert peoples. Forest peoples are more prone to animism.

The first gods have been identified with powerful animals, ancestors, most basic needs (fertility, good luck,...) Sun and stars. All things that were important to those societies.

I think it's a natural byproduct of the activity of a brain that desperately needs to plan ahead.

Mind your infinite regressions, BTW: Who created the one who created god?

And so on.

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6 hours ago, joigus said:

God is a placeholder for everything we don't understand.

I think so

I think the mind ,on a deep level just cannot accept that anything is not unexplainable and so instinctively  creates  a "placeholder" so as to move on to to the next activity.

Not a matter of convenience but a biological necessity.

"God of the Gaps?"

 

(I wonder could that behaviour even  be observed in other animals.It might require  some evidence of a long cogitation process bridged by a gap in the middle with the shape of the gap somehow being retained for later use)

 

Do animals react to the unknown with fear?That fear factor seems prevalent in religious behaviour.(the Greek gods weren't your luvvy duvvy types as I have heard) 

 

 

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7 hours ago, geordief said:

"God of the Gaps?"

Exactly. God of the gaps is what I meant. Filling in the gaps in your knowledge with answers that are emotionally satisfactory seems to bode well with the needs of a brain that has a frontal cortex as sophisticated as ours, with so many neural connections. And with a FOXP2 gene that accumulates comparatively so many mutations as ours does.

The idea is that having a representational scaffolding for all those things we feel unable to solve by reasoning may have some kind of evolutionary advantage. From what I know, paleoanthropologists are toying with this idea. Whether such is the case, or it's simply a spandrel, we may some day learn. It could be just a spandrel that comes with the territory.

13 hours ago, iNow said:

 

I watched this talk some time ago. Very interesting. Everything Thomson says is compatible with religion being a psicological spandrel though.

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Posted (edited)

 

On 5/29/2022 at 8:03 AM, Jane6 said:

Who created god ?

I think an idea would be that God is the uniquely uncreated or self-created.

On 5/29/2022 at 8:01 PM, Phi for All said:

I heard it was a turtle.

But which came first, the turtle or the egg?

18 hours ago, joigus said:

As suggested by other members, gods were invented (not created, I would say) by humans.

God is a place holder for everything we don't understand.

Patterns can be found in the way different communities of humans fashion their deities. It is no coincidence that monotheisms have been developed by desert peoples. Forest peoples are more prone to animism.

The first gods have been identified with powerful animals, ancestors, most basic needs (fertility, good luck,...) Sun and stars. All things that were important to those societies.

I think it's a natural byproduct of the activity of a brain that desperately needs to plan ahead.

This and other discussion pointing out "people did" brings to my mind the concept of an egregore:

Quote

An egregore (pronounced egg’ gree gore) is a group thought-form. It can be created either intentionally or unintentionally, and becomes an autonomous entity with the power to influence. A group with a common purpose like a family, a club, a political party, a church, or a country can create an egregore, for better or worse depending upon the type of thought that created it.

https://theosophy.wiki/en/Egregore

Which idea I think implies a certain materiality or existence of thought, the existence of "consciousness", which topic is a slippery eel...

Also I think an aspect of theology to consider is immanent vs. remote. Judaism I think is largely concerned with making Yahweh immanent in the world. Christianity, or Pauline Christology, developed what I conceptualize as a semi-remote Tri-une God of "The Trinity": the mysterious aspect of which is that it can be self-creating through interaction of its constituent parts. May be the Absolute is further remote from the trinity, itself a unity. An eel egg, obviously.

 

I would like to know who created the bacterial flagellum, or the ATP-proton pump. I don't think Chuck D. can rap his way out of a paper bag. Although, there sure is a lot of work done on that line.

Edited by NTuft
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