iNow

TBD. What’dya say we study it and continue our discussion together as we learn more?

Greater than 1

I wouldn’t say easily, only that discussing them endlessly is merely a distraction from us getting started in overcoming them.

Nobody is talking about perfection. Improvement is the goal. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Even you earlier suggesting equity and fairness is good and should be sought, yet here now you seem to be putting up obstacles against that, too. Improvements have been made. More are still needed. There will be costs, but there will also be benefits. This is not linear, and nobody is expecting everyone to subscribe to my viewpoint (though it sure would be dandy if they did, or if they at least started looking for paths to success instead of continuing to introduce new and arbitrary... no, surmountable... reasons to avoid seeking it).

Another valid way to frame this issue is that it involves proactively and with intention resetting a system which has for centuries favored some people over others based on their skin color or gender. The way we say things affects how people feel about them.

Just had a vision of some of these threads being like dead fish, which left alone too long really start to stink up the place. If that dead stinky ass fish is sitting rotting and deteriorating on the middle of the kitchen counter, surely you’re not gonna ask it to be left there until you happen to come in several hours later just so you get to smell it yourself? Its a rotting fish. Pick it up. Throw it away. Move forward.

Also, the issues extended well beyond slavery. That’s part of this study that’s getting so many folks worked up.

Will you please stop bludgeoning them and calling them racist, intolerant bigots?!

Can we focus please on the topic instead of each other?

It was more than implied, it was said: ...but he thankfully has walked this back quite a bit in the last several posts and seems far more amenable to the idea now.

Psithurism

Perhaps that’s when and how you personally awoke to the issue. Trust that this issue has been undormant for far longer than just that. He did. Confirmed 6 hours ago.

Snowflake, maybe?

^psychology and sociology both study religion scientifically. Anthropology, too

It seems the cudgel got passed next to you. Let’s focus on the topic please. Current Plan: Study reparations more. Full stop. It’s too murky and turbocharged of a topic to do it without a foundation of facts. More facts are needed. Stop being a bunch of bed wetters and study it, and stop standing in the way of those trying.

Unfortunately, right now it’s MigL who holds the cudgel, even though he may not realize it. Again, it’s preferable to focus on the topic and not on the caricatured versions of each other we each draft in our heads. Yes. The slope is slippery, so grab a sled and some skis and let’s all just stop being so GD afraid of it.

And you’re probably right. I understand your position and agree it’s relevant, but avoiding discussions because some people might use it as an opportunity to wedge us away from our common humanity is a massive mistake. Discussions of ending slavery caused further polarization and resentment, civil unrest, and widened divides. Discussions of ending Jim Crow caused further polarization and resentment, civil unrest, and widened divides. Discussions of ending segregated schools and separated water fountains caused further polarization and resentment, civil unrest, and widened divides. Discussions of equal civil rights for all, regardless of the melanin content in one’s skin, caused further polarization and resentment, civil unrest, and widened divides. These were still the right things to discuss. These were still the right things to do. Those truths remain even while acknowledging the likely growth of resentment and unrest you reference. Suggesting we shouldn’t even talk about reparations for risk that some uptight asshats panties might get twisted advocates only entitlement and the selective application of our shared values. That approach does not, however, champion the very equity you just advocated in your own post and which I happen to stand steadfastly and firmly by your side in supporting. “We’d better not talk about this. It might make masta angry. Just carry on now w your chores and just keep your head down.” No. Enough. That’s all done now. It’s unfortunate, but it’s probably bc so many are uncomfortable with where they’ll land on the ledger... though sunshine is often the best disinfectant.

What would be great is if we could please focus on the topic and not on each other. Coates touched on this in his testimony this week: Once more for the folks in back who couldn’t hear.

And to this day, Germany still pays a $1,500 monthly pension to survivors of the Holocaust. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/world/europe/for-60th-year-germany-honors-duty-to-pay-holocaust-victims.html CharonY is exactly correct that suggesting African-Americans should be singled out like this is laughable, and is too common of a tactic (even if only unconscious) intended to deflect from the actual issue. "Nothing to see here, folks... move along..." This is currently JUST a discussion to examine the idea... and yet the pushback is rampant. Why not just read it for yourself instead of asking us to spoon-feed it to you? QFT

He did an amazing job explaining what this is all about. It's too bad so many people won't hear the words he actually said, or will only hear the spun versions of his words that get fed to them. The craziest part? We're not even talking about reparations delivery right now. We're just talking about studying the possibility, and yet even that gets every one spun up and tribal and taking defensive postures in their respective corners. We're just talking about studying it as a possible idea. Why is this so threatening? Surely, the study alone is not enough to demolish your self-image, worldview, or ideology... is it?

I know this is a physics thread, but another interesting idea to consider is how even your own personal version of “now” is actually an amalgam of various inputs and activation pattens from the past. From the “frame of reference” of your conscious self (whatever that might mean), you’re never fully in the present since your always catching up with neural activity that’s already previously happened in other regions of the brain. Our perception of time is extremely dynamic and susceptible to change, and it’s easy to achieve with minor changes in things like adrenaline, oxytocin, and (while I’m not advocating this) even psychotropics. Apologies for the temporary off topic add. Please let’s open a new thread in the proper area if further exploration of this tangent is desired.

Mix what?

Please elaborate. I’m not following the nature of your criticism. If my point was in any way unclear or seemingly contradictory to you, please specify exactly where so I may clarify it for you.

You'd get less pushback on your argument if you instead said our ability to recognize attributes and classify them into discriminate groups is innate. That is obviously true, and we do it all of the time... this is food or not food... this is ouch or not ouch... this is warm or this is cool... even this is lighter or this is darker in color. Likewise, you could equally argue that tribalism is somewhat innate and discuss how we tend naturally to classify individuals into categories like us and them. All of those positions are supportable because they're accurate. However, racism is not innate and you go too far suggesting it is. This is why people claim otherwise. Those claims should not be beyond you. We aren't born hating others based on arbitrary social categories like race, especially since race as a category is not even rooted in biology. That's taught. It's learned. We can avoid teaching it. We can help people unlearn it, but only if we identify it accurately and talk about it for what it truly is.

Without intending to minimize your experience in any way, it should be noted that your immune system likely played a rather central role.