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Airbrush last won the day on July 13 2018

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    Surfing, Artwork, Science
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    CSULA BA Art (1979) & BS Accounting (1989)
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  1. The disinfectant vapor could be as harmless as Lysol. Consideration should be given to any fabrics or porous surfaces in the mass transit vehicle. Ideally, the car should be designed for sanitizing every night. There should be no fabrics and no porous surfaces. A crew of workers on the outside unscrew the 12" vent cover and attaching a 12" hose to pressurize each car or bus with some kind of gas Pinesol. Like the amonia they mop the floor with late at night before closing at diners? This gas will quickly permeate every tiny pore and crevice in a few minutes. All surfaces will be sanitized. After that they open an exhausting vent and replace the gas intake hose with a hot air intake hose to blast out all the disinfectant gas from the car. This is all done in minutes per car. This would be more effective and efficient than hand wiping. Any indoor space can be disinfected by a gas each night. Then the harmless gas is rapidly vented.
  2. Thanks for the correction. That means in a room 10' x 10' with 9 exhaust vent fans, 9" radius each, in the ceiling you will have 3.14 x 9^2 = 3.14 x 81 = 254 square inches/144 = 1.77 square feet of venting area per vent, times 9 vents in the ceiling = about 16 square feet of venting area per 100 square feet of indoor space. Don't you think the air is passing through such a broad exit it can move at 2 mph? Then you have whatever number of intake vents you need to equalize the volume of air being sucked out the ceiling through 16 square feet of venting area per 100 square feet. I just thought it would be more comfortable working with a cool breeze on my ankles. The more floor vents you have the more air you can move without blowing skirts up. Just adjust the air inflow fans speed, size, and number to achieve moving air upward at 2 mph.
  3. Please explain what you mean. I thought a circular venting area would be pi X diameter. What's with the "squared /4"?
  4. Sorry for the miscommunication. My intention was to say that when someone sneezes, with AAR the water droplets will be lifted over people's heads in a few seconds, removing most threat of infection. It will actually take minutes for ALL that air to travel out of the ceiling suction vents. But remember in the 10' x 10' room you have almost half the ceiling area (42 square feet) is venting used air. Lots of air can move out at a slow speed. You can have fewer intake vents blasting air into the room along the room's perimeter near the floor. These can match the same air flow as the exhaust vents. People may experience wind blowing near their feet, but it won't blow skirts up. Also when we sneeze at 100 mph the droplets will not bounce off the walls. The droplets meet air resistance that causes the mist to mushroom into a larger area so air resistance increases even more with distance from the sneeze, decreasing droplet speed dramatically, slowing the mist to well under 100 mph. "The lighter droplets are deflected [upward] over the heads of people after the sneeze droplets travel about 10 - 15 feet" by the upward motion of air moving 2 mph. As to the size of the rooms, I'm thinking of AAR for larger, commercial spaces like hospitals, warehouses, offices, factories, businesses, or the homes of the wealthy.
  5. A large area of small fans do not inherently give rise to different flow rates than a large fan. You can have one giant fan moving the SAME amount of air as many smaller fans. I only thought it would be impracticable to build such a large fan. Cheaper to use a number of smaller ceiling-suction-vent-fans. The speed of air will be greater near a nozzle constricting the area that the air is passing thru. For example, if you have a room of 100 square feet (10' x 10'), you can have about 9 ceiling vent fans with a diameter of 18 inches or 1.5 feet. Area of each circular vent is PI X diameter (3.142 x 1.5' = 4.7 square feet per vent). Times 9 ceiling fan vents (9 x 4.7 = 42) square feet of vent area. That means almost half the square footage of the ceiling will be venting area circles sucking out the used air. With that much venting area you can move a lot of air slowly. You can have air entering the room faster around the perimeter near the floor. What is a "WAG"? You are misunderstanding my proposal. Air is not "only around for a few seconds." In a few seconds the droplets projected from a sick person will float above the heads of people. It would take several minutes for all the air in the room to be removed. I have never heard of AAR (Accelerated Air Replacement) have you? Did I just invent the term? In the future engineers will be considering AAR in new construction I suspect.
  6. False. 100 mph only near the sneezing nose or coughing mouth. After a few feet the water droplets slow down RAPIDLY due to air resistance. Heavy droplets fall to the floor in one second. The lighter droplets are deflected over the heads of people after the sneeze droplets travel about 10 - 15 feet. I have seen high-speed video analysis of droplet projection from coughing, sneezing, or shouting. The droplets do NOT travel across the room, only about 15 feet. Even if they did travel across the room, it would not matter since the bad air would be over people's heads in seconds. After only a FEW seconds of AAR (Accelerated Air Replacement) the strong suction fans in the ceiling will suck the air upward at about 2 mph. If you have enough fans, of adequate diameter, sucking air out the ceiling, turning at the proper rate, you can adjust the vertical air flow so all the air in the room leaves in a few minutes without a wind tunnel. You can move the air in a vertical direction over the heads of people in a few seconds. Also, you can catch Covid-19 by droplets reaching your eyes! So you need eye protection as well as an N95 mask.
  7. Not the same area. By having many fans you can increase the total area of the openings that the air is passing thru. That slows down the air flow even though the same amount of air is expelled. You could also have one giant fan the size of the ceiling turning slowly, pushing air out a giant hole 50 feet in diameter, but that is not practical for construction.
  8. Air moves faster through an air duct when you constrict the duct. Water flows faster out a hose when you constrict the nozzle. Having many smaller ceiling vent fans EXPAND the size of the exit. When you increase the size of the exit door, more people can flow through the door walking, not running.
  9. Exactly, that is why I have a problem with my original title, since A/C is not the issue. The issue is moving bad air out of the indoor space and bringing fresh air in. It has nothing to do with A/C or filtering or treating air. You don't need to filter or treat fresh air from outdoors. Any volunteers for math modeling? If you have many vent fans sucking air out the ceiling (like one fan per square meter), rather than one big fan that creates a wind tunnel, you distribute the motion over a greater area, increase the area of the air moving upward and out the ceiling. Therefore no wind tunnel. This will be better than nothing in a world where deadly pandemics can pounce on us at any time. A fan is not a very expensive, or sophisticated device, but installing so many of them will be more expensive. Will such installation be prohibitively expensive?
  10. If you have about one ceiling exhaust vent per square meter of ceiling area, and have a fewer number of fresh air inflow vents near the floor, you can make the air move upward at a modest speed, not a "wind tunnel," and not move it "around." The heavier droplets and lighter droplet should separate quickly. The idea is to suck the bad air up and out the ceiling before it can infect someone. Personal protection of a mask, except the R95 mask, does not screen out virus in the air. It primarily prevents the wearer from spreading droplets. Personal protection is known to work and having better air replacement in public indoor spaces also could work. Hospitals, factories, warehouses, any kind of work spaces, would benefit from having steady air replacement. Companies can boast of how high their air replacement is to attract workers. Any businesses can boast of having accelerated air replacement.
  11. Yes but we need to be prepared for diseases that are transmitted through the air. We were not prepared. 😲
  12. Covid-19 is like a dress rehearsal for even more deadly pandemics. Covid-19 is bad enough, but in the future you may have more contagious and more deadly viruses escaping into human society. In such a world you better have good AHC if you want to do things indoors. Either that or "herd immunity" after tens or hundreds of MILLIONS of deaths. How fast the air is replaced in a room, warehouse, or sports arena depends on the NUMBER of exhaust and intake vents. If you have only a few vents there will be "wind tunnels." But if you have MANY vents to exhaust and intake air, you distribute the wind tunnel effect so the overall effect is a slow upward motion of perhaps a couple of miles per hour. Maybe that is fast enough to move the air upward. In a few seconds the virus-air is already above the heads of people, and moving upward. As the warm air moves upward it accelerates evaporation of water droplets, making them lighter and thus maybe not hang around so long. The lighter-weight and heavier-weight droplets may get quickly separated. Maybe the heavier droplets will fall to the floor and the lighter droplets carried upward. 😃
  13. Hahaha, very funny. The "car cleaning" takes place between 1:00am and 5:00am when nobody is aboard. Just hook up the disinfectant hose to the car or bus. Pressurize with disinfectant until virus is dead. Then evacuate the car with 2 hoses, blast warm air into the car, exhaust air exits from the opposite end of the car/bus.
  14. There could be a retro-fit. You can reroute the air intake around the HVAC system when you are not using the A/C for cooling. Then just fresh air from outdoors is pushed by more powerful fans. Fans don't use much current. You won't have cold air from your HVAC system, but you will have clean air from outdoors, just so long it is not very hot outside. If it is very hot outside, then sorry you are stuck with slow-push A/C fans. New construction can use more powerful fans. "Hanging out in a wind tunnel" is an exaggeration. The air just moves unnoticeably faster, so no matter how large the droplets are that came out when someone coughed or sneezed, the air will exit the room within a few seconds (not a wind tunnel). That is much better than the virus-air hanging around for M I N U T E S .
  15. Rather than people going through subway cars and busses disinfecting surfaces, have intake and output vents for each car. You attach a vapor hose to the input vent and fill the car with pressurized disinfectant vapor. After the virus is dead, open the output vents and remove the vapor from the car by blasting warm air thru the car, from intake to output vents. Any complaints?
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