Jump to content

MSC

Senior Members
  • Posts

    431
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    4

MSC last won the day on April 6

MSC had the most liked content!

About MSC

  • Birthday 11/12/1993

Profile Information

  • Location
    Oak Park, IL, USA
  • Interests
    Philosophy, Physics, Chemistry, Anthropology, Sociology, Psychology, Psychiatry, Ethics, History, Art in the broadest sense of the word, Linguistics, Psycholinguistics, Philosophy of Religion, Phenomenology, Chess, Fire Performance arts.
  • College Major/Degree
    Frankfurt.
  • Favorite Area of Science
    Moral Psychology
  • Biography
    Gone until the standard of critical debate is higher.
  • Occupation
    Ethicist

Recent Profile Visitors

2633 profile views

MSC's Achievements

Molecule

Molecule (6/13)

45

Reputation

  1. I've heard the strategic use of not being a hostile cunt to people can also work wonders. So perhaps if you would learn to shut up and stop hounding people with mental health issues, stop being so brutal, stop edgelording and stop gaslighting people when people rightly question your motives some progress could be made.
  2. Agreed. Active compassion more consistently applied works wonders. I think so many suicides could could avoided if we could be more compassionate in our interactions with each other in general. I mean hell, reading the first page of this thread makes me more empathetic with others whom struggle with suicidal ideation. I feel a contributing factor, is an emotional death by a thousand cuts type situation. Few people with a callous lack of compassion intend to cause someone to commit suicide, but who knows if you're going to be the person dealing out the 1000th cut or the straw that breaks the camels back. On social media and other written forms of communication, the problem is made worse because a screen depersonalises and dehumanises people in a very literal way. Even if we are consciously aware that we are in fact speaking to another human being, subconsciously we are aware that we seem to just be typing inputs into a screen. Which lowers a lot of inhibitions. The sort of interactions people have on social media, are often times very different than the interactions you will have in person and have a tendency to be much more harmful for your mental health, in their consistency to be brutal. I've actually spoken to a few mental health professionals about this, and even prior to the internet, one of the barriers to effective mental health treatment is how hostile our society can be to the mentally ill. Sometimes you feel like you might as well just have a physical open wound and that people might as well just poke their fingers into the wound whenever you speak. At least that way you'll actually have an infection instead of feeling like you have one and are being treated like you are one. Some might say it isn't our job to figure out how to communicate with the mentally ill. Yet most people here probably at least know someone whom is mentally ill and a few of us here most definitely are mentally ill. So it might not be most people's job, but I feel like there is a need for it to become a core life skill. I've had people tell me that I should not be on social media since it is bad for my mental health. It seems to me like it's bad for almost everyone's mental health, in how it makes us feel, what it makes us willing to say to each other and how it makes us choose to communicate with each other. I mean you don't even need to have a mental illness to feel like being on social media is emotionally demanding and trying. I'm sure for some it can straight up make people who weren't mentally ill before, mentally ill after enough of the typical shitty interactions we often get from it. Save the brutal honesty for the mentally ill whom are actually incarcerated for brutal crimes like rape, child abuse, murder etc. But even then, leave it to the professionals. If brutal honesty is like a scalpel and to be used to help someone, let's make sure it's just the professionals using it and not any Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to walk by. For those who take it seriously enough, to be worried about making it worse if they say the wrong thing, start and finish the interaction with consistent compassion and empathy. Don't give advice, don't tell them to seek mental health treatment. Ask them if they have thought about mental health treatment. Find out if there are some kind of barriers to them gaining treatment. If there are, share information about charities that can help. If they are willing to be vulnerable with you, be willing to be vulnerable with them back. This advice does help. This is what I did when my friend B, (Just the first initial, respecting their privacy) a schizophrenic, was having an episode and was getting quite aggressive and had completely disassociated with who she was at that time. At that point, this is where being willing to be vulnerable calmed her down... don't do that with a sadist though. Never be vulnerable to a sadist. Dont show fear, act like you enjoy it, this riles them up and confuses them, it makes them sloppy, you attack quickly and decisively when they make a mistake, gtfo and call the police. If there is ever a time when you feel suicidal or just want a compassionate conversation about whatever the hell you want; message me. This applies to everyone. The least I can be for people, is someone who doesn't want you to be gone from this world. So don't hesitate to get in touch.
  3. @iNow I'm going to rephrase the first line that was directed at Zap. "Since the argument examples you have cited are from the deontological perspective..." the rest carries on the same. I suppose these are questions I'd like to hear feedback on the most. Are they relevant enough for you in this thread or should there be a more specific thread by itself? @iNowthis was the question I had in mind which I felt you were being evasive on. I'm sincerely asking for examples of my writing that are giving people an impression which I'm not trying to convey. So I can understand what is causing the impression so I can fix it. Please, humor me. No, you've misunderstood what I just said. I was asking some questions of everyone who read as they were open questions that weren't just meant for Zap. But I fucked up and was not clear enough when I wrote them, that they were open questions not just meant for Zap but for anyone who is interested in this topic enough to have the discussion. If you aren't interested enough, that's your choice to make. No judgement either way. I don't want to fight and argue with anyone anymore.
  4. In the end, I just want to be friendly with people. One of the things that frustrates me the most is that when people get upset with me, it often feels like it is coming out of nowhere. It's overwhelming to say the least. It gets even more so when there is a gang up and all of a sudden I have 2 or 3 people upset with me instead of just one. It's enough to give anyone a headache. I've got Inow basically telling me he finds me repellant, doesn't give a shit what I have to say and has called me a brat. And for what reason? Because I'm here debating and don't always see or understand other people's points? It's really just taking it too far in the whole edgelord meanstreak trope everyone is doing these days. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't make me feel particularly great and only seeks to satisfy some need he has of being brutal for brutalities sake. Probably calls it brutal honesty, but I just see brutality. When he says I lack self awareness, he might as well just come out and say "you just don't realize what a piece of shit you are." That's what I hear, that's the kind of negative self talk I have to fight off everyday. It also directly contradicts one of the most consistent criticisms I've had from people who actually know me as a person. Ever since I was a kid, it's always been that I'm too self aware for my own good, but usually it also ties in to how I also over share that self awareness. @zapatosyou implied earlier, that I don't give enough credit to the people that are trying. That may be true.. maybe I should try to work on that. But ethics really is my passion, career and vocation. It's what I try hardest at. I do a bit. Thank you. I am trying to be better at communicating with people. It's not easy. It's easier with some and harder with others. Well in this thread, I've not actually asked you that many, but I probably complicated the issue in my mind by expecting you to perceive some of the questions I asked when speaking to Zap, as open questions meant for anyone else who decides to read and engage. One thing about social media that I can't ever seem to shake thinking about, is that there is an audience and you don't know who or how many people are in it or even when they are in it. Does that make sense? So I feel like most of the time, I end up just trying to speak to everyone, since I can't know the audience. That happens because of my need to keep social advice in mind that I have sought out and learned to better cope. Knowing your audience being one of them. So on social media, since the only thing I can know about the invisible audience, is that they are human. That's really the only core thing I can hold onto for trying to communicate.
  5. Likewise. And yes, sorry I misquoted you on the second paragraph just now. But what did you mean by the first? And can we all just stop calling each other childish. It's beneath all of us to say things so petty and only makes it more difficult for us all to communicate. This isn't reddit and I'm tired of giving my all to a discussion only to have to bite my tongue and keep trying to be reasonable while people keep up with personal attacks even after I've attempted to assure them that I've meant them no personal Insult. Me actively insulting someone and me just ad libbing generalized rhetoric look nothing alike. I dunno, maybe it's a cultural thing and we just have very different ideas of what it means to personally attack an individual and attacking their argument. Where I'm from, if you're not making an attempt to make a light hearted joke out of something, and are just calling someone childish, whiny or petulant, that's fighting talk. That's intent to upset and hinder, not communicate. It's perceived as an attempt to be paternal, to pull rank, to put someone beneath you. Equality and manners are very important to Scots, even if from the outside it does not seem like it. If you were actually my dad or my boss, you could get away with it. In a venue like this where we are all equal in our ability to share our thoughts freely and non staff have all the same capabilities within the framework of the forum, it just makes communication unnecessarily difficult. This was genuinely one of my biggest culture shocks when I moved to the USA. Its why a lot of Europeans just don't feel comfortable here. We have to deal with ridiculous stereotypes, inappropriate jokes, sexual harassment and people constantly trying to take advantage of your ignorance in how this place works. There have even been incidents where someone here, who seems like a fairly inclusive American, will say something which would be completely out of order back home. In the same way that here, I can say cigarettes but if I had the inclination to ask someone for a fag, that would be offensive. It does present differently online. Much less of an accent barrier to deal with here, but I can tell that the cultural one is still there and is actually more prominent. I think we may also be having problems understanding the tone we are trying to convey. For the sake of helping you understand me a little better, I do have social difficulties, problems focusing or getting too focused on things. I just got a new psychiatrist who disagrees with the Aspergers diagnosis I got home and instead suspects ADHD. But at this point, I've grown so annoyed with all the confusing psychiatric labels that I'd rather just focus on the symptomology of me as an individual and do away with the labels altogether. But I certainly don't communicate in the normal way, and the version of me speaking with you now, has actually put a lot of effort to try to meet other people where they are, sometimes I can only get halfway. There is a weird thing I just noticed, I read back some of what I've said in an American accent and for whatever reason, I sound more condescending than you would hear if I was saying it on the phone with my own voice.
  6. And you have a repellant habit of continuing to speak to people in a way that warrants questioning your motivations. Thats literally what you are doing here. Show me where I've ever called you a petulant bratty toddler? The only one making this personal is you and Zap. Projection buddy. That's all I can say.
  7. We get it. You think I'm beneath you. So why would I continue to engage with you? At least I attempt to give a shit what others have to say. Until they do what you do and reveal that they think they are superior to others. Now I no longer give a shit what you have to say since there will be no reciprocation. If you can't read for nuance and are incapable of interpreting what I'm saying, that's your problem. I'm not reading averse and I can tell the difference between a question mark and a full stop. I'm no longer wasting my time with you so save your bile for someone else. Tell yourself whatever false narrative you want about me in order to protect your self appointed status of smartest person in the room. This is one example of where it reads like you are advocating for abortion. Here is another. So no, you haven't made your own views clear at all and now seem to be back pedaling because you stopped feeling confident in this bs. If you agree that abortions should be legal, then why tf are you even arguing with me? What is the goal exactly if we are both preaching to the choir?
  8. I'm telling you, that's how it comes across to me. That's just my honest perspective. If the boot didn't fit, then why did you get so defensive and try to rage quit the conversation earlier? I can tell others what I think. I can't tell them what is and what isn't. I can only tell them what I think. You've been here arguing for abortion being made illegal. Whether that was to test me or if it is your true found beliefs, that's what you have been doing. Apparently you won't won't share what you truly think so this argument could be in complete bad faith for all I know. Not a very good example in my opinion. Oops, shared my opinion again. I forgot you said mine isn't allowed. I'm just going to come right out and say what is on my mind, You and Zaps egos are bruised because you can't actually supply me with a valid criticism and are crying foul because I won't pretend there is any weight to these ineffectual ones. I'll respond now only to people who actually engage with my writing and don't ignore my questions to try to construct their own false narrative about who they reckon I am and what motivates me. I'm very open to criticism. Just not in the way you seem to expect me to be. You haven't changed my mind about anything. Maybe you were just wrong and there is little to understand?
  9. So can you show me a section that gives you this impression or not?
  10. Okay, fair enough. Can you show me which sections of my writing gives you the impression that I feel as if I'm the sole arbiter of what is right and wrong? What do you mean by "validity of other perspectives"? Do you mean acknowledging that other perspectives are allowed (ofc they are) or valid in that they are correct and right? I'm genuinely confused as to how people want or expect me to respond to their perspectives. Am I not allowed to take issue with them? Am I not allowed to say "I think that's wrong" or "That criticism isn't valid" or "I don't think that is a good way to think about it." I'm really just getting the impression that others here don't really get my communication style and that maybe I should just go since I seem to be causing so much cognitive dissonance for others. I don't understand what Zap wants from me or why he is getting so offended but I'm not going to hold anyone's hand into making high level critiques the way it is done in moral philosophy in an academic setting. If they can, they can, if they can't, they can't.
  11. Then what are you doing? Playing Devils advocate? Help me understand what your view is. Because so far it certainly seems like that is what you are advocating. Me pointing out you may have misunderstood and whether or not I mind when you are critical are not the same. The former does not imply the latter at all. If I minded you being critical of my arguments I just wouldn't continue the dialogue with you... yet here I am. So clearly I don't mind. I can perceive your criticisms to just be incorrect or poorly communicated. You're entitled to make them. I even agreed with you earlier and pointed out that I'm quite well aware that even my bike and its parts create a bigger carbon footprint than if I just walked. It's still preferable to a car since the bike did all of its pollution when it was made, not every time I ride it. At that point, my farts are a bigger issue than my bike is 😆
  12. So you really don't see the irony in advocating for making abortions illegal and then saying this: So it's okay for a man to make decisions over his own body but not for a woman? Name 1. If there is a million, naming one should not be that difficult. I agree. Which is why I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I'm just contributing toward the discussion with my perspective. My perspective is just another choice. People can choose to accept it, find value or truth in it, or not. I've explained it. That is enough for me. I both can't and won't force anyone to agree with me and I don't have a gun to anyone's head about it. Nor do I feel like Zapatos is trying to force me into doing anything either. If i wanted, I could just not read anything he writes. Where is the force here? - Yoda This just popped into my head. Figured I'd already quoted Yoda once so why not again for the sheer banter.
  13. Except when we are telling women what to do with their bodies ofcourse. No need to leave it up to the individual there. Men know better right? I never suggested you were any of those things either. Just that the arguments can be used to enable those things. I think you've misunderstood a lot of what I've been saying and are taking it a bit too personally. There is nothing arbitrary about whether or not something is successful in solving a problem or not. Do or do not, there is no try. Either the stone is lifted, or it is not. If you fail, make another attempt. You don't see me here bragging about a job half done or failed attempts to do something. Whether or not something works, is the baseline by scientific consensus. Take Alchemy for example, it failed to make gold, it failed to produce an elixir of life. Alchemy was trashed. Chemistry has made modern miracles in medicine, textiles, materials, hygiene etc and so hasn't been trashed. A ban on abortion will not only cause more women to die, it will increase poverty, ruin the economy and cause a massive female exodus in the job market as women are forced to be mothers whether they want to be or not. That means less Dr's, less nurses, less key infrastructure workers and every industry that isn't male dominated will shrink. Every business will lose key workers. It will also put a massive strain on an already spread thin care system. Orphanages will fill up, not enough people will adopt and you will see more homeless people at younger ages the longer these bans are left in place. The job market will become even more competitive, unemployment will increase, suicides and violent crimes will increase. You might think access to abortion couldn't possibly lead to all of this, but pregnancy is the root cause of our being. When you try to remove women's choices by banning abortion, something which has been happening in pretty much our entire recorded history, it has far reaching dramatic consequences for everyone. To sum up my position; I think, abortion should be legal up to somewhere between 16-20 weeks. I've only heard of 1 baby who survived as a preemie at 21 weeks gestation. As far as I'm concerned, I believe that life truly starts when a being is capable of surviving living by itself, without the need for life support systems from its mother. Can you focus on this question when you get the chance?
  14. For what it is worth to you, I do actually believe you are a good person. You're here, talking about ethics, making good points and not being apathetic to the issue. I can be pretty critical. This I know, and it does rub people the wrong way. I do try to minimize it and work toward being less critical in my personal life. This subject is my career and vocation however. So I'll always be critical in this type of venue and I don't pull punches. I understand that you are doing your best as we all have to, but for me, part of doing my best is knowing I can always improve on my best over time. You also sound like a good parent. 👍 We can only have a dialogue with the people in front of us. Show me a person doing nothing and see how much more critical we can both be 😆 Also, I'm not your enemy. Being critical of you or anyone else does not make me your enemy. It just is what it is. It's not like you aren't allowed to also be critical of me and you have been. I don't mind though. It helps.
  15. Nope. However I would take issue if they didn't encourage more people to do the same when they have the chance to do so. I do understand where you are coming from. We do all have limited time and resources. What concerns me, is that others reading some of your comments may be inclined to only do the bare minimum. A really simple example to show what I mean. Four men want to lift a heavy rock. They set up a system of ropes. The system works best when there is one person on the end of each of the four ropes that need to be pulled. But instead of doing this, all four men try to pull on the same rope. The rock does not budge. What I mean by this, is that some of your comments could be interpreted as telling everyone to pull on the exact same rope. I'm not saying that at all. I'm sorry I have upset you. I didn't mean to offend. My usage of the word "you" before, wasn't intended to be directed solely at you as an individual. You are correct though. The metal on my bike needed to be mined, refined and cast. Fossil fuels contributed to the structure and creation of the tires. The same is also true of the shoes I wear to walk and ride. It's a shitty state of affairs for sure. What we all lack, not just in the abortion debate, is a better quality and quantity of choices. How our society is structured, currently leads is into only being able to adopt half measures, ineffective compromises and unavoidable hypocrisy in some instances. I can reduce my carbon footprint. I can't elimate it completely without eliminating myself, as you say. But to not reduce it where we can, leads to us collectively eliminating ourselves and many other creatures we share this planet with. In order to really have effective dialogues we have to be willing to state the truth of it all. My criticisms of your means are as valid as your criticisms of mine are. I am not more or less virtuous than you. Even if I believed it was possible for one of us to be more virtuous than the other, I don't know enough about you to be able to say. I could be more in some ways and you in other ways. I'm not blaming you, I'm not saying you are the one holding us back. I am not judging individuals at all. I am judging the society we individuals belong to and contribute to. As a group, we aren't doing enough. We aren't in the right. We aren't virtuous and we aren't good. Even if good individuals exist in our society; collectively we just aren't good enough. This needs to change. I'm doing the things I can do. I am setting myself up to be able to do more as I live my life. Part of that is trying to convince others to do the same. I'm not going to solve the climate crisis. If it does get solved, it's going to be buy us and we, collectively. If it doesn't get solved, it's us and we again that are responsible. If and when it is time for us all to perish because of our own stupidity, I'll be blaming everyone. That includes myself. I'll say I haven't done enough, you haven't done enough, we haven't done enough. I'm not saying you are the cause or you are the problem. It's that mindset that is the problem and you aren't the only one with it, but you can change your mindset. You are capable of looking at things in a different way, you are capable of questioning yourself and your beliefs to see if they truly are serving you and us well. In order to bring us closer to the topic at hand, I have a new question. Should men be allowed to get a vasectomy or get any procedure or treatment that elimates their sperm? What makes a sperm different from an embryo or a zygote?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.