Externet Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Hi all. Which is wrong ? 'Door' or all the others ? door is not pronounced as poor book wood root tooth cook boost doom roof good hood cool food loop mood boot soot school And 'here' and 'there' ; differ by the added 'T' with a substantial pronunciation difference, being actually more like 'der'. (another silent E.) 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I'd say 'door' is wrong. It's the most democratic thing I can think of. But minorities must be respected. All my respect for 'door'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmet Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) to me, none of those expressions/words are same with "door". but with one notification: I am not native english. within this, I would also remind you that british english and usa and canadian english also australian english are different (but british is really different, they almost nowhere use "t" in words (e.g. they do not say "get" ,they use "ge!" instead. for instance they do not say "I have got wet" ,they say "I 'v go we!" (assuming that there was a "t" but not being read, only exclamational tongue is used) Edited October 17, 2020 by ahmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 12:07 PM, Externet said: Hi all. Which is wrong ? 'Door' or all the others ? door is not pronounced as poor, etc, etc... And 'here' and 'there' ; differ by the added 'T' with a substantial pronunciation difference, being actually more like 'der'. (another silent E.) 🤔 Please explain some more what this is about. I don't understand your question. What do you mean by "which is wrong?" Door rhymes with boar, soar, chore, core... in standard English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 10/17/2020 at 12:57 PM, ahmet said: within this, I would also remind you that british english and usa and canadian english also australian english are different (but british is really different, they almost nowhere use "t" in words (e.g. they do not say "get" ,they use "ge!" instead. for instance they do not say "I have got wet" ,they say "I 'v go we!" (assuming that there was a "t" but not being read, only exclamational tongue is used) ??? For me "t" in "wet" is clearly hearable on this example: If you don't know how to pronounce some word, enter it in Google Translator and/or other on-line translator like Collins, and press speaker icon e.g. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wet "t" at the end is clearly hearable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 'Poor' and 'door' have the same 'or' ending, so phonetically: 'por' and 'dor'. One has to consider there are regional differences within the UK. I say "dor' and 'por' but other regional variants are 'doo-er' and 'poo-er', with two distinct parts, and 'dar' and 'par' being another. 'Per' and 'der' also. Edited November 5, 2020 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 49 minutes ago, Sensei said: ??? For me "t" in "wet" is clearly hearable on this example: Quote In English phonology, t-glottalization or t-glottalling is a sound change in certain English dialects and accents that causes the phoneme /t/ to be pronounced as the glottal stop [ʔ] (listen) in certain positions. It is never universal, especially in careful speech, and it most often alternates with other allophones of /t/ such as [t] (help·info), [tʰ], [tⁿ] (before a nasal), [tˡ] (before a lateral), or [ɾ]. As a sound change, it is a subtype of debuccalization. The pronunciation that it results in is called glottalization. Apparently, glottal reinforcement, which is quite common in English, is a stage preceding full replacement of the stop,[1] and indeed, reinforcement and replacement can be in free variation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-glottalization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahmet Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sensei said: ??? For me "t" in "wet" is clearly hearable on this example: maybe, yes in this example. but I saw someone from england and they really were pronunciating that letter as I expressed. what is more, pronunciating a word and using it in a sentence are presumably not same. Edited November 5, 2020 by ahmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I don't know how Turkish is constructed, but the letters in English are divided into vowels and consonants. T is a consonant and many consonants come in pairs. The halves of the pair are called the voiced and unvoiced consonants of the pair. That is because the sound is formed partly by exhaling a puff of air through the voicebox and partly by the shape and configuration of the mouth and tongue. With a voiced and unvoiced consonants the mouth/tongue configuration is the same, but the voiced version is also sounded in the chest and voicebox. The voiced version is louder and more pronounced than the unvoiced version. So the t (teh) sound is the unvoiced version and the d (deh) sound the voiced counterpart. Other pairs include s and z; p and b. The voiced version is louder more pronounced than the unvoiced version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 As a native speaker (and reader) of English, I don't understand this idea that pronunciation should have rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: As a native speaker (and reader) of English, I don't understand this idea that pronunciation should have rules. The same thought must have people after collapse of the Roman Empire, and each branch of Latin took slightly different path, giving rise to several new languages. Shutdown Internet, stop globalization, stop mass transport of people and goods, spread stupidity, and after a few centuries of separation Australian won't be able to understand American or Englishmen, and vice versa.. Edited November 5, 2020 by Sensei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 17 hours ago, Sensei said: The same thought must have people after collapse of the Roman Empire, and each branch of Latin took slightly different path, giving rise to several new languages. Shutdown Internet, stop globalization, stop mass transport of people and goods, spread stupidity, and after a few centuries of separation Australian won't be able to understand American or Englishmen, and vice versa.. A native speaker will always understand the pronunciation of a native speaker; we and language will always evolve together, but in different <insert collective noun here>. Globalisation is impossible BTW, it's a modern utopia... Sorry, I should have pronounced that you-top-I-ay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 34 minutes ago, dimreepr said: A native speaker will always understand the pronunciation of a native speaker Have you ever been to Glasgow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 45 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: Have you ever been to Glasgow? Yeah, I infered from context... 😉 But then, I'm not a Glaswegian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 22 hours ago, John Cuthber said: As a native speaker (and reader) of English, I don't understand this idea that pronunciation should have rules. As a German speaker, I don't get how you decide to pronounce certain things. I think someone explained to me that both, English and German both originated from same Germanic roots but than were heavily influenced by romance languages and booth. And indeed, I am more fluent when I am slightly drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CharonY said: As a German speaker, I don't get how you decide to pronounce certain things. I think someone explained to me that both, English and German both originated from same Germanic roots but than were heavily influenced by romance languages and booth. And indeed, I am more fluent when I am slightly drunk. Different regions of the UK were invaded/ influenced by different nationalities throughout history to various degrees, so any words adopted from another region would be adapted to the local vernacular. Say, if a French-originating word got up to the North East UK, then it would be adapted to the Scandanavian influence , which woud be prevalent there Edited November 6, 2020 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area54 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 3 hours ago, John Cuthber said: Have you ever been to Glasgow? It's less true today, but fifty years ago one could identify which part of the city an individual came from by their accent. The accent thought of as Glaswegian is largely the working class accent from south of the Clyde. It was all a bit Henry Higgins across the whole country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, StringJunky said: Different regions of the UK were invaded/ influenced by different nationalities throughout history to various degrees, so any words adopted from another region would be adapted to the local vernacular. Say, if a French-originating word got up to the North East UK, then it would be adapted to the Scandanavian influence , which woud be prevalent there That has influenced the English language, but I think it is not only the acquired words, but it also influenced how words were pronounced over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 The interesting question is not "how did English come to have so many mashed up languages" but how come the other places that had equally messy histories do not have the same ... interesting... pronunciations. Vikings invade bits of Germany and France; so did the Romans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 On 11/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, John Cuthber said: As a native speaker (and reader) of English, I don't understand this idea that pronunciation should have rules. A good reason that comes to mind is the existence of air traffic controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 ATC picked the wrong language. They should all speak Esperanto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 2 hours ago, John Cuthber said: ATC picked the wrong language. They should all speak Esperanto. How do you pronounce that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 2 hours ago, dimreepr said: How do you pronounce that? Carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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