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Alex_Krycek

The Killing of George Floyd: The Last Straw?

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1 hour ago, DrmDoc said:

Didn't Chauvin, the offending officer, provide a very clear and concise statement by holding his knee to the neck of a handcuffed and deceased black man for nearly 3 minutes? What more can he possibly say to clarify or justify something so abhorrent.

The fact he had took the luxury of having at least one hand in his pocket whilst kneeling on him is strong evidence of George Floyd's compliance. He was torturing him.

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11 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

Now back to the topic at hand (as I am also partly to blame for derailing it), do you all think that if this eventually dies down, and things do not change (in the system), these types of protests and riots will become more frequent, or will this be (at this scale) more a one-off thing?

I doubt anyone can predict something with certainty. But there is a good chance that these protests will need to become more organized. They have an unprecedented support throughout the population in part by just heinous the cause was. But there will also be fatigue, especially among white folks (black folks do not have much choice in that matter). At the same time, the fact that about everyone has a recorder in their pockets reduces the likelihood that these events will be ignored.

But I suspect that there will be at least local change in some areas, though perhaps not a systematic one and not everywhere.

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Posted (edited)

I keep thinking that this may be classed as an act of terrorism.

I wonder if in the mind of the murderer that he may have been mostly concerned with the effect this was having on those watching the act.

Was this an act of propaganda along the lines of "Jews will not replace us"?

This act was so callous and extraordinary  that some understanding of the motive of the actor is required.

 

This was not a lazy action but something fuelled it and I fear and suspect that it may have been political.

 

I imagine the former police officers' computer hard drives and devices will be searched  and evidence of links to political groups may show up.

 

I wonder how common such acts are in society and whether it is the prevalence of video recorders in the hands of the public that is bringing to light crimes that were previously hidden.

Edited by geordief

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24 minutes ago, geordief said:

wonder how common such acts are in society and whether it is the prevalence of video recorders in the hands of the public that is bringing to light crimes that were previously hidden.

Definitely yes. Racism is increasing. It’s just getting recorded. 

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2 hours ago, CharonY said:

I doubt anyone can predict something with certainty. But there is a good chance that these protests will need to become more organized. They have an unprecedented support throughout the population in part by just heinous the cause was. But there will also be fatigue, especially among white folks (black folks do not have much choice in that matter). At the same time, the fact that about everyone has a recorder in their pockets reduces the likelihood that these events will be ignored.

But I suspect that there will be at least local change in some areas, though perhaps not a systematic one and not everywhere.

I doubt that this will exert the desired pressure at the national level; that will require follow-through in November. Locally, though, some governments are listening. Others, not so much. (I wonder if de Blasio will bother running for reelection)

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What do you think would happen if it would be an Asian or Latino police officer who accidentally killed him? Would there be exactly the same reaction? These regular riots happen always if it is a white police officer suspected in use excessive force against a black guy. Does it mean there is never cases like this which would involve a Latino or Asian police officer and a black guy? If they are, why there is no riots about it? 

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The issue is police killing blacks, not specific colors or ethnicities of police killing blacks.

You’re either trying very hard to intentionally miss a painfully obvious point (basically trolling), you’re extremely ignorant, or a depressingly common mixture of both. 

Which of these would you prefer we consider you to be?

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Posted (edited)

But in all the cases when killing a black guy by a police officer provokes wide scale riots and public actions it is always a white police officer who is suspected. Is there at least one exception? But there are a huge number of a Latino and Asian police officers who serve in US police. Is there really not a single such an incident involving one of them?

Edited by Moreno

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Dude. One of the cops from last weeks Floyd killing was Asian. Are you just blind?

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7 minutes ago, iNow said:

Dude. One of the cops from last weeks Floyd killing was Asian. Are you just blind?

I don't think he's discussing in good faith.

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Of course he’s not. I’ve known that for weeks :)

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Just looking for other's opinions here...

Are the 'violent' protests feeding the neurosis of the current occupant of the White House ?
Or would non-violent protests simply be disregarded, and 'business as usual' shortly ?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MigL said:

Just looking for other's opinions here...

Are the 'violent' protests feeding the neurosis of the current occupant of the White House ?
Or would non-violent protests simply be disregarded, and 'business as usual' shortly ?

Both, but the part which stands out to me is how many are incited by the police themselves or how many have been false flag operations from white suorenacist groups and agitated by foreign actors 

Edited by iNow

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, iNow said:

Dude. One of the cops from last weeks Floyd killing was Asian. Are you just blind?

Yes, I know. But he wasn't personally a killer. I thought there could be a possibility that whites are over-suspected in "racism" and often hated for been perceived "successful" and hardworking. And things are intentionally heated up by somebody. Possibly by a foreign intelligence services. For example it rises doubts that video with Floyds death been done in such details, so patiently and professionally, was done by an accidental bystander. Also there are reports that some mysterious "flying squads" of a robbers and looters on bicycles and skateboards participated in riots who acted too professionally for an accidental mob. 

Edited by Moreno

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31 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Yes, I know. But he wasn't personally a killer.

Ah, the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

31 minutes ago, Moreno said:

And things are intentionally heated up by somebody. Possibly by a foreign intelligence services. For example it rises doubts that video with Floyds death been done in such details, so patiently and professionally, was done by an accidental bystander. Also there are reports that some mysterious "flying squads" of a robbers and looters on bicycles and skateboards participated in riots who acted too professionally for an accidental mob. 

You are going for conspiracy theory now, rather than see the obvious reality?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Strange said:

You are going for conspiracy theory now, rather than see the obvious reality?

So, could you explain why an accidental bystander suddenly decided to do the video and was so patient with it? Who exactly and why did the video?

(I support peaceful protests under the slogan "Human lives matter").

Edited by Moreno

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20 minutes ago, Moreno said:

So, could you explain why an accidental bystander suddenly decided to do the video and was so patient with it?

Have you not noticed that about 80% of the population carry a high quality movie camera around with them all the time?

That is why there are thousands of videos online (of, admittedly, variable quality) of the police attacking and beating peaceful protestors, knocking old men walking away from the scene, shooting at pregnant women, arresting journalists doing their job, and so on.

22 minutes ago, Moreno said:

(I support peaceful protests under the slogan "Human lives matter").

That would be quite uncontroversial. But why do you think that people (like you) start getting upset when it is pointed out that "human lives" includes "black lives" and that those black lives are regularly treated as if they don't matter?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Strange said:

black lives are regularly treated as if they don't matter?

Treated by whom, in which exactly country? They could be mistreated in Africa too. Because I don't honestly know any proves to this. I never personally observed in my life any case when even a single black person would be mistreated by someone. And statistical 1.000 of a black persons killed by police in US per 320.000.000(!) population in US each year either for a sound reason or not don't convince me there is a repressive system regarding blacks in US...

Edited by Moreno

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12 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Treated by whom, in which exactly country?

As regards to the topic of this thread, by the police.

13 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Because I don't honestly know any proves to this.

Right. And the Apollo moon missions were faked by Stanley Kubrick.

13 minutes ago, Moreno said:

I never personally observed in my life any case when even a single black person would be mistreated by someone.

Oh, well. That's it then. It obviously never happens if you have never seen it.

14 minutes ago, Moreno said:

And statistical 1.000 of a black persons killed by police in US per 320.000.000(!) population in US each year either for a sound reason or not don't convince me there is a repressive system regarding blacks in US...

It is not the absolute number that is so significant (even that it is pretty appalling) it is how it compares to other groups of the population.

But that's OK. Because you have never seen it. So it doesn't happen.

I know you don't actually read any of the evidence provided, because you want to stay in your little bubble of xenophobic comfort, but here is some more background: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52904593

 

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May I suggest that if Moreno wants ( that's questionable ) an education in police, or systemic, discrimination/violence towards black people in the US, he should start another thread.
Every time we can have an interesting discourse about racism, causes, cures, and where do we go from here, it always gets hijacked by someone claiming there is no racism, and goes on to give us several pages of "Yes there is"/"No there isn't".
This same pattern also emerges when we start having interesting discussions about AGW, and I sometimes I limit my participation for that reason, even if I find the OP very interesting.

I would really like to discuss what effects the death/murder of G Floyd will have ( if any ) on American society, its government, policing and justice system, and society in general. I would hate to think his death, and many before him, have died for nothing.

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Excellent points. In consequence I've deleted my draft reply to Moreno, which fell into the "Yes, there is category".

10 minutes ago, MigL said:

I would really like to discuss what effects the death/murder of G Floyd will have ( if any ) on American society, its government, policing and justice system, and society in general. I would hate to think his death, and many before him, have died for nothing.

I think it will be a step in the right direction, but a much smaller step than many hope for, or expect, but a step nonetheless. We whould be glad of that step, but we should insist upon more. I'm not American, but this death has highlighted the injustices that exist in all countries towards minorities. A good starting point for change is to examine to what extent we are personally  complicit in benefiting from, or maintaining the status quo where we live.

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8 minutes ago, MigL said:

I would really like to discuss what effects the death/murder of G Floyd will have ( if any ) on American society, its government, policing and justice system, and society in general. I would hate to think his death, and many before him, have died for nothing.

His death will change things in America, that much is inevitable; the only real question is, how long it takes.

That's what the powerfull/privileged don't understand, the action's they take to ensure their status remains true, is exactly what hastens the end of that status "look on ye mighty and dispair".

It's up to America to change the pattern. 

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27 minutes ago, MigL said:

May I suggest that if Moreno wants ( that's questionable ) an education in police, or systemic, discrimination/violence towards black people in the US, he should start another thread.
Every time we can have an interesting discourse about racism, causes, cures, and where do we go from here, it always gets hijacked by someone claiming there is no racism, and goes on to give us several pages of "Yes there is"/"No there isn't".
This same pattern also emerges when we start having interesting discussions about AGW, and I sometimes I limit my participation for that reason, even if I find the OP very interesting.

I would really like to discuss what effects the death/murder of G Floyd will have ( if any ) on American society, its government, policing and justice system, and society in general. I would hate to think his death, and many before him, have died for nothing.

AGW?

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2 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

AGW?

Anthropogenic Global Warming.

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3 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

AGW?

Is that a pertinent question?

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