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Alex_Krycek last won the day on July 14

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About Alex_Krycek

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  1. That's fine. You're free to interpret what you read any way you like. I've made an attempt to clarify already; you're not interested in that. C'est la vie. The survey I posted shows results from over 50 years of polling. Between 30-40% of Americans consistently reported that they don't feel safe walking in their own neighborhoods at night. To me that's conclusive enough. More hyperbole and exaggerations. My posts were about increasing funding / training for officers so they can more effectively deal with violence when confronted with it. Increasing discipline and training while under pressure through the use of martial arts training would be an effective safeguard against irrational behavior under pressure. There's also the issue of increased accountability, which we haven't addressed yet. Interesting. What is the general attitude towards the police in Turkey? Are they respected overall? How much do they make, specifically? Would you say their job is dangerous, as it is in some cities in the US, or less dangerous?
  2. Neither, actually. That there is "outrage" is your subjective interpretation. It's easy to read into things when contextual cues such as tone of voice, body language, etc are not present. We're having a debate. That is all.
  3. Not really. I provided supporting data to back up my original point. I'm not talking about racists. I'm referring to people of color, women, and young people who live in these communities. They are the ones calling for more effective police. They are the ones who feel unsafe. Is your nit-picking game of semantics that much better? And what do you know, those few criminals, when left unchecked, dominate and control those around them.
  4. This poll shows that one third of Americans have felt unsafe in their own neighborhoods for over 50 years. The point about safety being a legitimate concern for a significant portion of Americans as well as the fact that there are extremely violent cities has been sufficiently made. This was a Gallup poll. I think we can safely rely on them to conduct a proper survey. And then after a decline in the 90s it fluctuates at between 30-35% until the present day. Not sure where you get the idea that I'm "fixated" on controlling people with force. Seems like more straw-manning on your part. If it were up to me we'd function like Sweden or Norway. However such a long term transition will take many years and crime is an exigency that exists now, and won't go away on its own. You continue to think that asking violent criminals nicely to "please stop what they're doing" is a realistic approach. That's an unrealistic assumption. So I suppose you're fine with the criminals controlling other people? Because that what will happen if the police aren't there to stop them. This notion espoused by you and the anarchist fellow that everything will magically solve itself if government goes away is extremely naive. The problem lies with people. Human beings are violent. Human beings seek to dominate and control others. If we had no police then criminals would immediately fill the power vacuum and form a mafiocracy, as they have in so many instances in the past and do in other nations with no stable government. Unless criminals are as polite as you assume and courteously acquiesce to your gentle admonitions. (But then again, they probably wouldn't be criminals if they did that, would they?) Now who's being hyperbolic? 🙄
  5. "What value it becomes safe"? Please clarify your question / statement. ---------- Here is a poll done in 2014 about how safe certain groups feel. Roughly a third of Americans feel unsafe walking in their own communities. Notably, 48% of young people (18 - 29) say there is an area within a mile of their residence that they feel unsafe walking at night. The study's conclusion: "While the percentage of Americans saying they do not feel safe walking alone within a mile of their home at night has remained steady over the past decade, there has been a considerable shift in Americans' views on this question over the past 30 years. While falling crime rates have not necessarily affected Americans' perceptions of crime on a national level, they have been felt in neighborhoods and communities across the country. Nonetheless, women are among the groups that feel the least safe, suggesting the benefits of falling crime rates have not been evenly felt by all. Other groups, such as the young and lower-income individuals, are also more likely to worry about their own safety." Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/179558/not-feel-safe-walking-night-near-home.aspx
  6. I did answer it. There are many communities where people are afraid to walk in their own neighborhoods, especially at night, due to a high frequency of robberies, murders, rapes, etc. You'd have to be fairly insulated not to understand this fact about the US.
  7. Really? Tell that to the people who actually live in these communities. To you they're just statistics; to them they're a stark and urgent reality. I suggest you watch the show I referenced: "Flint Town" to see how bad an American city can get.
  8. Every state. https://www.businessinsider.com/most-violent-city-every-us-state-fbi-2018-4?op=1#34-tempe-arizona-had-259-violent-crimes-per-10000-residents-7
  9. That goes without saying. We've already discussed the fact that there must be much greater accountability in addition to increased social services to offset the effects of poverty. I've already said that I totally agree with a radical increase in funding for impoverished communities and much stricter accountability. However, there is still the question of what happens in the interim, before the long term benefits of more funding kick in. We're trying to address the question of violent crime that is pervasive in communities with under-funded police departments. I asked Dim Reaper what his position would be regarding violent crime and he dodged the question, putting the focus on police officers rather than those who actually commit the vast majority of the crime. Avoiding the real problem that violent crime presents to communities by blaming police officers for everything will do nothing to stop the robberies, assaults, and murders happening across he country. It's wishful thinking to believe that we can merely defund the police and magically all crime will vanish. This is the whole point of the thread. There will always be a need for police, especially in the current situation where citizens can't safely walk down the street. The only way to progress beyond this impasse is to first recognize the need for police, and then actually give the police the tools, resources, and training they need (and yes, with greater accountability as part of that approach).
  10. You seem to be under the impression that the police commit more violence than actual criminals. This is an exaggeration that isn't supported by the facts. Straw man. I never suggested the police shouldn't assume innocence first. You still haven't addressed the issue of violent crime that occurs on a daily basis. You're operating under the somewhat naive assumption that if police just "leave well enough alone" then violent criminals will just play nice. It doesn't work that way. Police have to be proactive in shutting crime down before it happens. More robust social policies would be a great long term solution, but for now local communities where violence regularly occurs want the police there to mitigate it.
  11. Nor does it stop criminals from terrorizing the innocent. If you were Chief of Police, how many innocent people would you be comfortable victimizing in the name of this pacifistic approach? Ultimately I agree that much more investment is needed to lift the downtrodden out of poverty, so that crime is not their best option. Until that happens there still needs to be a competent police force.
  12. Anarchy has been tried. It doesn't work.
  13. Agreed. And this needs to be thoroughly understood and addressed with a robust system of checks and balances. Greater accountability must coincide with enhanced training. Gang members, drug dealers, drug addicts, rapists / sex offenders, violent thugs of various kinds. There's no shortage of very bad people out there who commit crime on a daily basis, and who are only encouraged by a weaker police force.
  14. Of course the situation would be different.. There are so many ways to protect yourself from a knife that you can't protect yourself from a gun. It's a totally different ballgame.
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