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Explanation of the killings in Exodus


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Some people argue that the killings in the exodus part of the Bible is not just. But there is an explanation of it. The killings are act of punishment by God to those evil people. But there is a deeper explanation of it. God is omniscient. He knows the future of those people which He punish in the exodus. He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early. Someone can ask " How about those innocent babies who are killed also?" The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. He doesn't want those babies to commit sin and experience evil when they grow up. The acts of the killings in exodus are justified. Keys of understanding are considered here- God's omniscient, love, and punishment. Everythings has a purpose.

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Like it matters... Does God know what question He can't answer? And also, here's my favourite proof about God. "God can't exist because of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is Go

Eric the God-eating penguin is a perfectly possible notion, and proves the non-existence of God.

Perhaps are you one metaphysician?, teach me the way? Say to me a word that should not contain verb? and you will be free... We do not know who we are, only verb and any more verb.... Word

4 minutes ago, MassMan said:

He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early.

So no free will then? If god has decided you can’t change then that’s it?

That appears to go against 2000 years of theology

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2 hours ago, Strange said:

So no free will then? If god has decided you can’t change then that’s it?

That appears to go against 2000 years of theology

It doesn't mean there is no free will. The omniscience of God only shows that He knows every action of the human beings. It doesn't touch the will of humans.

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3 hours ago, MassMan said:

 The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. 

That is such nonsense MassMan. What about the evil doers that live and go unpunished?  This is god's'love'? It's BS clearly. Why keep making excuses for a monstrously barbaric, clearly non existent being?

If God was real then of course everything would be explainable. But it clearly isn't real. I think you are afraid of this punishment yourself and it is blinding you to the obvious. What loving god would make you live in fear like that?  

 

Edited by DrP
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4 hours ago, MassMan said:

Some people argue that the killings in the exodus part of the Bible is not just. But there is an explanation of it. The killings are act of punishment by God to those evil people. But there is a deeper explanation of it. God is omniscient. He knows the future of those people which He punish in the exodus. He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early. Someone can ask " How about those innocent babies who are killed also?" The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. He doesn't want those babies to commit sin and experience evil when they grow up. The acts of the killings in exodus are justified. Keys of understanding are considered here- God's omniscient, love, and punishment. Everythings has a purpose.

I agree that there's a legitimate explanation for the exodus, but it's not god.

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5 hours ago, MassMan said:

Some people argue that the killings in the exodus part of the Bible is not just. But there is an explanation of it. The killings are act of punishment by God to those evil people. But there is a deeper explanation of it. God is omniscient. He knows the future of those people which He punish in the exodus. He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early. Someone can ask " How about those innocent babies who are killed also?" The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. He doesn't want those babies to commit sin and experience evil when they grow up. The acts of the killings in exodus are justified. Keys of understanding are considered here- God's omniscient, love, and punishment. Everythings has a purpose.

So the babies have to go because god knows they will be evildoers in the future but the pedophiles and mass murderers get to stick around. Nice line of thinking MassMan. According to this logic, god is a psychotic delusional murderer and if there is in fact any shred od decency left in him/her, he/she should commit suicide to prevent his/her evil doing in the future. Hows that for an explanation?

Edited by koti
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How do you explain the story of Noah?

According to Genesis 7:12 :" And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights."   When a global flood is caused by rain then it's a slow process which means that humans have enough time to prepare and enter a boat.  So then most humans would survive but nearly all plants and animals would be death.

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6 minutes ago, Itoero said:

How do you explain the story of Noah?

According to Genesis 7:12 :" And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights."   When a global flood is caused by rain then it's a slow process which means that humans have enough time to prepare and enter a boat.  So then most humans would survive but nearly all plants and animals would be death.

Local flooding is a common phenomenon and almost entirely due to rain, not to mention how fast they appear; I doubt they understood the word global at the time. 

Edited by dimreepr
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4 hours ago, MassMan said:

Some people argue that the killings in the exodus part of the Bible is not just. But there is an explanation of it. The killings are act of punishment by God to those evil people. But there is a deeper explanation of it. God is omniscient. He knows the future of those people which He punish in the exodus. He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early. Someone can ask " How about those innocent babies who are killed also?" The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. He doesn't want those babies to commit sin and experience evil when they grow up. The acts of the killings in exodus are justified. Keys of understanding are considered here- God's omniscient, love, and punishment. Everythings has a purpose.

Looks like God's omniscience only extends so far, otherwise he would have put a stop to those evil people before they caused any damage at all. Seems more likely that God was asleep at the wheel and screwed up by letting that batch be born in the first place. Then instead of using his power to change their hearts for good to make up for their evil deeds, he was embarrassed that people would be constantly reminded of his mistake by their presence so he just said 'fuck it' and cut his losses.

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1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Local flooding is a common phenomenon and almost entirely due to rain; I doubt they understood the word global at the time. 

Ok, but in Genesis you find that the Flood was high enough to cover mountaintops. So they meant it was global.

Genesis was written before Columbus(1492) discovered America...But creationists use the Flood to explain the finding of marine fossils in Mountains. There are marine fossils in Rocky Mountains and Andes....they have to believe in a global flood.

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8 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Ok, but in Genesis you find that the Flood was high enough to cover mountaintops. So they meant it was global.

It may well say that. It never happened though. There isn’t even enough water on Earth to do that. 

 

9 minutes ago, Itoero said:

But creationists use the Flood to explain the finding of marine fossils in Mountains.

That is because they are ignorant of the real reason. 

2 hours ago, MassMan said:

It doesn't mean there is no free will. The omniscience of God only shows that He knows every action of the human beings. It doesn't touch the will of humans.

But if god knows that they will not change then they cannot change and therefore they have no free will. 

In other words if the future is fixed (predetermined) because your god knows what will happen, then no one can change it and therefore they have no freedom. 

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3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

If God is omniscient then He knew what would happen when He put the serpent in the garden of Eden.

In that case He's entirely responsible for all the evil in the world.

Not a nice guy

1

He's a prick but not an author. 

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3 hours ago, Itoero said:

According to Genesis 7:12 :" And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights."   When a global flood is caused by rain then it's a slow process which means that humans have enough time to prepare and enter a boat.  So then most humans would survive but nearly all plants and animals would be death.

Actually we can show scientifically that these words should not be taken too literally. Radius of the Earth is ~ 6370000 m. Area of sphere is [math]4 \pi r^2[/math] = ~ 5.1 * 10^14 m^2..

What must be increase of water level on the entire planet to cover the all lands?

The highest mountain Everest (unknown at the time of writing Old Testament) has height 8848 m.. if we multiply by area of the Earth, we will get approximate volume of water needed to cover entire planet 5.1*10^14 m^2 * 8848 m = 4.5 * 10^18 m^3 of water. But entire planet water volume is 1.37*10^18 m^3....

8848 m increase of level of water in 40 days: 8848 m /40d /24h /3600s = average 2.56 mm per second per m^2 (that is 2.56 kg/s/m^2).

If we will repeat calculations with height of the Ararat mountain 5137 m, multiply by area of the Earth, we will get volume of water 5.1*10^14 m^2 * 5137 m = 2.62*10^18 m^3 of water. That's still double volume of entire water of the planet!

References:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Ararat (height of mountain)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_distribution_on_Earth (Earth's water volume)

Edited by Sensei
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7 hours ago, MassMan said:

Some people argue that the killings in the exodus part of the Bible is not just. But there is an explanation of it. The killings are act of punishment by God to those evil people. But there is a deeper explanation of it. God is omniscient. He knows the future of those people which He punish in the exodus. He sees the future of them still evil and no hope of repentance or change for the good on those people, so to avoid further damage by those people and to stop their evil deeds God decided to punish them when it still early. Someone can ask " How about those innocent babies who are killed also?" The answer is God sees that those babies when they grow will also be evildoers because of the influence of the society around them. So while they are innocent, their life ends. We see here the love of God to those babies. He doesn't want those babies to commit sin and experience evil when they grow up. The acts of the killings in exodus are justified. Keys of understanding are considered here- God's omniscient, love, and punishment. Everythings has a purpose.

 

So killing all the males and females who weren't virgins but keeping the little girls as sex slaves is ok? 

http://biblehub.com/numbers/31-18.htm

Quote

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
 

 

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15 hours ago, DrP said:

That is such nonsense MassMan. What about the evil doers that live and go unpunished?  This is god's'love'? It's BS clearly. Why keep making excuses for a monstrously barbaric, clearly non existent being?

If God was real then of course everything would be explainable. But it clearly isn't real. I think you are afraid of this punishment yourself and it is blinding you to the obvious. What loving god would make you live in fear like that?  

 

God sees that those people have the chance to change.Or their continued living has a purpose for the good. 

13 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

If God is omniscient then He knew what would happen when He put the serpent in the garden of Eden.

In that case He's entirely responsible for all the evil in the world.

Not a nice guy

I admit it is a hard subject to think about because God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts. But all I can say is that Adam and Eve has freewill so God will not touch their freewills even He knew what will happen to them. But note God already warned them. 

14 hours ago, Strange said:

But if god knows that they will not change then they cannot change and therefore they have no free will. 

In other words if the future is fixed (predetermined) because your god knows what will happen, then no one can change it and therefore they have no freedom. 

Nice analisation, but I can say that it doesn't mean if God knows their future there is no free will to them. It only shows the omniscience of God.

Edited by MassMan
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16 minutes ago, MassMan said:

It only shows the omniscience of God.

Omniscience would mean God knows everything, but we know He doesn't know how to regrow an amputated limb, so how can He be omniscient? 

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2 hours ago, MassMan said:

but I can say that it doesn't mean if God knows their future there is no free will to them. It only shows the omniscience of God.

Look, it's simple.

Your god knows you are going to have waffles and coffee for breakfast. That means you can't change your mind and have bacon and tea, because that would prove that god is not omniscient.

"Ah", you say, "but god knows that you are going to change your mind and have bacon and tea!" Well, that means that can't not change your mind and stick with waffles and coffee, because that would prove god wrong.

Basically, whatever your god thinks you are going to do, you have to do because otherwise it would prove she was wrong.

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Omniscience would mean God knows everything, but we know He doesn't know how to regrow an amputated limb, so how can He be omniscient? 

She knows, but can't be bothered. She doesn't need limbs so doesn't care.

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2 hours ago, Strange said:

Look, it's simple.

Your god knows you are going to have waffles and coffee for breakfast. That means you can't change your mind and have bacon and tea, because that would prove that god is not omniscient.

"Ah", you say, "but god knows that you are going to change your mind and have bacon and tea!" Well, that means that can't not change your mind and stick with waffles and coffee, because that would prove god wrong.

Basically, whatever your god thinks you are going to do, you have to do because otherwise it would prove she was wrong.

The point here is our actions happened at once and cannot be unact. I want to show you that even God knows what will you do in the future, you are still free. Does God's foreknowledge of your future actions eliminates your freewill? No. Your are still free. 

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6 hours ago, MassMan said:

But note God already warned them.

And He knew it wouldn't work.

So when He put the serpent in garden  He condemned all of humanity to suffering.

6 hours ago, MassMan said:

I admit it is a hard subject to think about because God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

It's easier to understand when you realise that the sky fairy isn't real, then you can accept that His decisions don't seem to make sense because He didn't make them; nobody did.

6 hours ago, MassMan said:

But all I can say is that Adam and Eve has freewill so God will not touch their freewills even He knew what will happen to them.

Yeah- like putting a baby in a lion's cage. The baby has freewill- so that makes it OK.

Do you have any idea how dumb that looks to anyone outside the "faith"?

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45 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

And He knew it wouldn't work.

So when He put the serpent in garden  He condemned all of humanity to suffering.

It's easier to understand when you realise that the sky fairy isn't real, then you can accept that His decisions don't seem to make sense because He didn't make them; nobody did.

Yeah- like putting a baby in a lion's cage. The baby has freewill- so that makes it OK.

Do you have any idea how dumb that looks to anyone outside the "faith"?

That's the consequences of having freewill. God knew that if He create free creatures, there are disdvantages that will arise but He also knew that only through freewilled creatures, He can share His love because only freewilled creatures have the ability to realised and experience love. If they are not freewilled, they will be like robots who only obey without realising the love of God. It is logically impossible to make freewilled creatures to do only what is right because they will not be called freewilled. It is as logically impossible as a married bachelor. So we must accept the negative consequences of being freewilled. 

God is very good that He created us having freewill so we can experience love from Him. But having freewill has negative consequence like doing wrong actions. But which is more important, God will not create freewilled beings because of it's negative consequences or He must create freewilled beings to experience His love? I think the latter is more important. If you choose the first then you should think that you should NOT exist.

Edited by MassMan
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13 minutes ago, MassMan said:

God is very good that He created us having freewill so we can experience love from Him. But having freewill has negative consequence like doing wrong actions. But which is more important, God will not create freewilled beings because of it's negative consequences or He must created freewilled beings to experience His love. I think the latter is more important. If you choose the first then you should think that you should NOT exist.

That's a one-way street and you've got the direction wrong.

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19 hours ago, Sensei said:

Actually we can show scientifically that these words should not be taken too literally. Radius of the Earth is ~ 6370000 m. Area of sphere is 4πr 2   = ~ 5.1 * 10^14 m^2..

What must be increase of water level on the entire planet to cover the all lands?

The highest mountain Everest (unknown at the time of writing Old Testament) has height 8848 m.. if we multiply by area of the Earth, we will get approximate volume of water needed to cover entire planet 5.1*10^14 m^2 * 8848 m = 4.5 * 10^18 m^3 of water. But entire planet water volume is 1.37*10^18 m^3....

8848 m increase of level of water in 40 days: 8848 m /40d /24h /3600s = average 2.56 mm per second per m^2 (that is 2.56 kg/s/m^2).

If we will repeat calculations with height of the Ararat mountain 5137 m, multiply by area of the Earth, we will get volume of water 5.1*10^14 m^2 * 5137 m = 2.62*10^18 m^3 of water. That's still double volume of entire water of the planet!

References:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Ararat (height of mountain)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_distribution_on_Earth (Earth's water volume)

thx for the calculation!  It's frightening so many people believe in Noah's Flood. They deny a lot more science  then the evidence concerning evolution.

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10 minutes ago, Itoero said:

thx for the calculation!  It's frightening so many people believe in Noah's Flood. They deny a lot more science  then the evidence concerning evolution.

But I argue that it's not an ordinary rain from the sky, and also the rain happen for a long period of time. With God nothing is impossible. He can make the global flood!! His ways are higher than our ways. What seems impossible to us is possible to Him.

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27 minutes ago, Itoero said:

thx for the calculation!  It's frightening so many people believe in Noah's Flood. They deny a lot more science  then the evidence concerning evolution.

There was global (i.e. worldwide) flooding ~20k years ago. +120 meters of water due to global warming in Upper Paleolith. I showed coastline of Asia in this thread:

 

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