swansont Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 “In a paper published today in Nature, the ALPHA collaboration at CERN’s Antimatter Factory shows that, within the precision of their experiment, atoms of antihydrogen – a positron orbiting an antiproton – fall to Earth in the same way as their matter equivalents.” https://home.cern/news/news/physics/alpha-experiment-cern-observes-influence-gravity-antimatter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 "Antimatter falls like matter" Says clumsy scientist who dropped it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: Says clumsy scientist who dropped it. Antiscientist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordief Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 This gets boring.Einstein (et al) was right. So was it just 50/50 which form of matter won out at the beginning? Or is matter more than just the mirror image of anti matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted September 27, 2023 Author Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, geordief said: This gets boring.Einstein (et al) was right. So was it just 50/50 which form of matter won out at the beginning? Or is matter more than just the mirror image of anti matter? That’s an issue of baryon asymmetry, which is unresolved. Neither one should have won out, but one did, or there was more of one than the other from the start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordief Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, swansont said: That’s an issue of baryon asymmetry, which is unresolved. Neither one should have won out, but one did, or there was more of one than the other from the start. Is there a reason for the proportion of one form to the other that has been observed? Is that promotion expected to be the same everywhere in the observable universe? Edit:a quick Google search brings up this Wikipedia page which seems to go into the question https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon_asymmetry Edited September 27, 2023 by geordief 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 17 hours ago, swansont said: “In a paper published today in Nature, the ALPHA collaboration at CERN’s Antimatter Factory shows that, within the precision of their experiment, atoms of antihydrogen – a positron orbiting an antiproton – fall to Earth in the same way as their matter equivalents.” https://home.cern/news/news/physics/alpha-experiment-cern-observes-influence-gravity-antimatter Well, that makes gravity easier/harder to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsutton Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 22 hours ago, swansont said: That’s an issue of baryon asymmetry, which is unresolved. Neither one should have won out, but one did, or there was more of one than the other from the start. Yes I have seen this idea before, so there was more normal matter from the start. I think if matter annihilates antimatter you get energy, not fully sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted September 28, 2023 Author Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 hour ago, paulsutton said: Yes I have seen this idea before, so there was more normal matter from the start. I think if matter annihilates antimatter you get energy, not fully sure. You get photons, or you get matter/antimatter pairs. We’ve seen reactions that yield more matter than antimatter in some lepton reactions (CP violation), but it doesn’t explain the baryon asymmetry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fabian Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 I didn't think it was a question that hadn't already been answered. Doubtless I have missed something observed/published that suggested antimatter could be like flubber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted September 28, 2023 Author Share Posted September 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ken Fabian said: I didn't think it was a question that hadn't already been answered. Doubtless I have missed something observed/published that suggested antimatter could be like flubber. It hadn’t been answered experimentally. Theory has to be confirmed. Science has had some surprises that required adjustments in the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ken Fabian said: I didn't think it was a question that hadn't already been answered. Doubtless I have missed something observed/published that suggested antimatter could be like flubber. Flubber ? +1 That was a good film, (the 1961 original), complete with a mad professor. Edited September 28, 2023 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Kinda sad really, antigravity antimatter would have been much more useful and interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ kihara Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Matter and antimatter made up of the same stuff...the stuff is influenced similarly by gravity probably,therefore,matter and anti matter interact in the same manner with gravity..after all, matter-anti matter annihilate to produce energy which is equivalent to mass c^2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 22 hours ago, swansont said: You get photons, or you get matter/antimatter pairs. We’ve seen reactions that yield more matter than antimatter in some lepton reactions (CP violation), but it doesn’t explain the baryon asymmetry. In case anyone's interested... In addition to baryon number non-conservation, one would need T (=CP) violation, plus C violation alone, plus a universe out of equilibrium --if I remember correctly-- for baryon asymmetry. As we already know of C and CP violation, T would be automatically satisfied if CPT holds, which we believe to be the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryogenesis#GUT_Baryogenesis_under_Sakharov_conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ kihara Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 6 hours ago, joigus said: plus a universe out of equilibrium -- Maybe given enough time it's equilibrium... forward arrow of time (Universe expansion) favors matter formation while backward arrow of time( Universe contraction) favors antimatter formation... Probably leading to an aspect of global time and local time hence T asymmetry,which leads to T violation which is difficult to detect experimentary since we are local observers...the mere fact that matter dorminates presently maybe of itself enough to prove T violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoola Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 it seems that if the universe formed both types, then due to random fluctuations within the forming process, more of one should have been created than the other. The bulk that annialation could have been what powered the big bang. It was arbitrary which one persisted to be called "matter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, hoola said: it seems that if the universe formed both types, then due to random fluctuations within the forming process, more of one should have been created than the other. The bulk that annialation could have been what powered the big bang. It was arbitrary which one persisted to be called "matter". The unbalance cannot come from random fluctuations. Electric charge is exactly conserved --as every other gauge charge. You really need a mechanism to nudge things out of balance. Look up Sakharov conditions for baryogenesis. Oh, look. I thought I'd said it, and indeed I did... On 9/29/2023 at 8:59 PM, joigus said: As we already know of C and CP violation, T would be automatically satisfied if CPT holds, which we believe to be the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryogenesis#GUT_Baryogenesis_under_Sakharov_conditions This is no random fluctuation. Either that or everything started out unbalanced for some mysterious reason --which is always possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoola Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) If the universe came about by mathematical calculations, perhaps a mistake was made in these calculations since math is somewhat unstable (Godel), leading to this issue. Edited October 28, 2023 by hoola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 Is there anyone who suggests the universe “came about by mathematical calculations”? Godel said math is unstable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoola Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) Tegmark, Wheeler, Pythagoras. In a certain sense, did he not say that with the incompletnes? Edited October 29, 2023 by hoola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 10 hours ago, hoola said: Tegmark, Wheeler, Pythagoras. In a certain sense, did he not say that with the incompletnes? Incompleteness is not instability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alysdexic Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 On 9/27/2023 at 3:08 PM, geordief said: Or is matter more than just the mirror image of anti matter? Matter as distinct from antimatter comes from the condensation and collapse of the latter, like antineutrinos, positrons, antiquarks, into dark matter about the Planck scale so that their dipole moments are too small to interact with each other and with regular matter whose dipole moments are greater than the neutrino’s. The arrow and rate of time for bodies is essentially fundamentally determined by their dipole moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, Alysdexic said: Matter as distinct from antimatter comes from the condensation and collapse of the latter, like antineutrinos, positrons, antiquarks, into dark matter about the Planck scale so that their dipole moments are too small to interact with each other and with regular matter whose dipole moments are greater than the neutrino’s. The arrow and rate of time for bodies is essentially fundamentally determined by their dipole moments. Citation needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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