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Can you be a scientist and still believe in religion?

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On 10/8/2020 at 6:36 AM, Markus Hanke said:

1. It seems that almost everyone here equates religion with theism, or (even more narrowly) with Christianity.  

!

Moderator Note

I will, for the sake of keeping other discussion in line, note that some are even equating religion with literal interpretations of holy books (e.g. as represented by young-earth creationism)

 

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38 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It doesn't matter who dispenses justice, if one has faith in justice.

My point is, if being content/at peace is the goal, why does it matter what path you take to get there?

Buddhism/Taoism have no faith, no concept of justice, it's a regression to where all concepts come from. It's observation helped by action, and action helped by observation.

The fulcrum of all of it is that we all live under the illusion that "I" is some-thing. By continuous practice you get to see that "I" is no-thing.

Compassion towards others is the only possible consequence of this realisation. Justice is more of a consequence than a goal in these traditions.

So my qualms are over faith-based religions. I started the discussion with "religion" as synonymous of faith-based religion. Then I corrected myself.

But I don't think that just any practice will get you to be at peace with the world, or with "yourself."

It is no coincidence that most religions have a tradition of retreat, renounce, and observation. Faith and narratives play no role there.

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1 minute ago, joigus said:

The fulcrum of all of it is that we all live under the illusion that "I" is some-thing. By continuous practice you get to see that "I" is no-thing.

Sounds like nirvana...

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4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Sounds like nirvana...

Maybe it is.

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Just now, joigus said:

Maybe it is.

I'm content with that... 😉

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Well, since Markus has expressed his desire to join a Monastery, I think that definitely answers the OP question.

But, some words to Markus...
( no offence meant, just trying to lighten the mood )

A young monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to helping the other monks in copying the old laws of the church by hand. He notices, however, that all of the monks are copying from copies, not from the original manuscript. So, the new monk goes to the head monk to question this, pointing out that if someone made even a small error in the first copy, it would never be picked up! In fact, that error would be continued in all of the subsequent copies.

The head monk, says, “You make a good point, my son.”

He goes down into the dark caves underneath the monastery where the original manuscripts are held in a locked vault. Hours go by and nobody sees the head monk. The young monk gets worried and goes down to look for him. He sees him banging his head against the wall and wailing.

“We missed the R! We missed the R! We missed the R!”

“Father!” cries the young monk. “What’s wrong?”

The head monk with tears in his eyes replies, “The word is CELEBRATE!"

 

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Back to original topic: yes, I think it is very possible for a person to believe in a religion and be a scientist. I, for example, am a science journalist and an orthodox Muslim. I am proficient in vertebrate paleontology and astronomy as my subjects of specific interest in science journalism.

Yes, I believe in evolution and that Earth was created 4.56 billion years ago and humans never coexisted with non avian dinosaurs. The only difference is that I believe that evolution is directional and not haphazardly random.

One thing that enrages me is that atheists, even ignorant ones, consider science as their dominion and prerogative. When I introduce myself as a Muslim, the instant knee-jerk reaction I get is the treatment of a science-denier. As if being a believer equates to being a neanderthal brute or even baboon.

Another, very dangerous trend I have observed is that laymen treat scientific theories and postulates as hard and undeniable facts. In gray areas of uncertainty, they will always, without an exception, take the postulates which run antiparallel with religious teaching and then present it as a fact, decrying criticism from me by calling me a science-denier.

This trend is very dangerous. Not only for social harmony and tolerance, but also for the very progress of science itself, as a neutral, unbiased discipline based on objective observations and transparent deduction.

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20 hours ago, MigL said:

The head monk with tears in his eyes replies, “The word is CELEBRATE!"

I think this joke perfectly captures the essence of the topic.

In this joke the monks were just following teachings blindly. Apparently they never questioned or explored their celebicacy. But i understand (some?) monks are encouraged to explore the experience of celibacy. It's not just an arbitrary rule, but a tool used to explore a headspace few humans choose to navigate. There's an inquisitiveness to it. In this case the transcription error wouldn't matter to their practice because they are focused on the experience.

The mindset of the former monks might not be conducive to science, but the latter monks would have an easier time of it.

Now it might be that certain religious institutions encourage one way of thinking over the other, but religions are not homogenous and each should be taken on their own merits.

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1 hour ago, Prometheus said:

I think this joke perfectly captures the essence of the topic.

In this joke the monks were just following teachings blindly. Apparently they never questioned or explored their celebicacy. But i understand (some?) monks are encouraged to explore the experience of celibacy. It's not just an arbitrary rule, but a tool used to explore a headspace few humans choose to navigate. There's an inquisitiveness to it. In this case the transcription error wouldn't matter to their practice because they are focused on the experience

 

Indeed, but i doubt the prophet's were taught to doubt; it's more a prophecy of a unique event, that happened now that will, at some point, happen tomorrow...

Some-one was the first and it's happened so many time's??? 

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Posted (edited)

As Christian I can relate this to the verse Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

For me I just tell myself that science is mans interpretation of the world/universe and keep my faith in my heart. 

But a little thinking...

1. You either conflicted about which one to trust most

Or

2. You twist one to match the other so you can have both as belief

 

Edited by Saiyan300Warrior

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23 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

For me I just tell myself that science is mans interpretation of the world/universe and keep my faith in my heart. 

But a little thinking...

1. You either conflicted about which one to trust most

Or

2. You twist one to match the other so you can have both as belief

A little thinking, shows you're talking bollox; as the placebo effect suggests... 🙄

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