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Itoero

depression/burnout

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I know many people that go in or have been in depression/burnout.

What can cause this? It's very secular where I live, can this be related?

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14 minutes ago, Itoero said:

I know many people that go in or have been in depression/burnout.

What can cause this? It's very secular where I live, can this be related?

Taking the red pill has it's downsides and depression/burnout might be one so I guess there might be correlation. On the other hand it's not secular at all here where I live and there are a lot of burned out and depressed people here too, I presume its due to not liking the way you live, the rat race and not accepting the goals anymore which previously drove you. 

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It depresses me that the OP thinks this is in any way related to secularity or belief. 

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14 minutes ago, iNow said:

It depresses me that the OP thinks this is in any way related to secularity or belief. 

It's not what I think, it's a question. It's shown many times how religion improves social cohesion…...

Edited by Itoero

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28 minutes ago, iNow said:

It depresses me that the OP thinks this is in any way related to secularity or belief. 

It has probably had an influence over the millennia and given people a common focus, which contributed to social cohesion. It may not be necessary but we can't rewrite history and be in denial  just because we don't like it.

Edited by StringJunky

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21 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

It has probably had an influence over the millennia and given people a common focus, which contributed to social cohesion. It may not be necessary but we can't rewrite history and be in denial  just because we don't like it.

1

no more than life.

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34 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

It has probably had an influence over the millennia and given people a common focus, which contributed to social cohesion. It may not be necessary but we can't rewrite history and be in denial  just because we don't like it.

I’ll adjust my view once evidence is shared. Has that occurred here?

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It's probably culture over time, to think about things
 
Edited by dimreepr

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

I’ll adjust my view once evidence is shared. Has that occurred here?

Evidence for what? That religion has not been a massive part many civilisations? You're a revisionist and have a pointed dislike of all things religion.

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!

Moderator Note

Until evidence is presented that this has anything to do with religion (or secularity), there should be no discussion of religion (or secularity). The OP asks two questions. Address either one, but limit the responses to that.

 

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2 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

That religion has not been a massive part many civilisations?

every culture has sad people

1 hour ago, Itoero said:

I know many people that go in or have been in depression/burnout.

What can cause this?

 

not getting what we want. ;)

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1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Evidence for what? That religion has not been a massive part many civilisations?

No. In fact, not even close. I thought it was clear, but since it wasn’t.... The request is for evidence that either secularism or religiosity are causative of either depression or burnout. 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

You're a revisionist and have a pointed dislike of all things religion.

That’s a fascinating opinion of me personally that I find inaccurate, but thank you for sharing. 

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Both are different conditions though they share similar features. Burnout is typically characterized in the context occupational stress and is strongly correlated with external factors. Depression on the other hand is more internalized and interventions aimed at treating burnout (e.g. taking time off) have little or no impact.

In general trying to draw relationships between conditions and social factors are difficult and while it is stated as a question it implies there might be one. Specifically one related to social cohesion. But that is very vague. On the face on it the assumption is that a better social network may be beneficial (which it is), but at the same time the assumption is that secular folks have a worse social support. One would need to establish that specifically for a study group in order to draw conclusion from the given group.

 In the end, if we want to look at it, it requires a critical evaluation what parameters we actually  look at (intersectionality becomes important in this context). For example, assuming that in your area depression rates are high (are they really above the local average)? There are dozens of factors other than secularism that characterize it. I.e. without a proper reference group (e.g. similar characteristics but different more religious) such observations strongly invite biased speculation.

One way to look at it, is just take a rough view on religious affiliation and depression rates (I will leave out burnout as it would complicate matters more). Essentially there a studies showing either trend. E.g. one study showed that pentacostal members were at 4 times higher risk of depression than other or no affiliations, even after accounting for socioeconimic factors.

However, if we look also into religious practice and spirituality, a bit more than half of the studies show some inverse correlation. Hypotheses are here focussed on practice which may have coping mechanisms, provide stress relief (like meditation) and general lifestyle decisions (e.g. alcohol use or lack thereof).

Thus, the overall association (either way) seems to be weak. There is one huge caveat, however. Most of this studies are cross-sectional. I.e. at a single point in time and is sensitive to the composition of the study section. There are few longitudinal studies, which track participants over time. There is one study conducted in several countries showing that the secular group was at lower risk than religious and spiritual folks. Strong believers were the group with the highest risk.

 

So with regard to the specific question in OP, based on our understanding on the relationship between depression and religiosity, there is no strong evidence that secular lifestyles in itself pose a higher risk. 

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2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

not getting what we want. ;)

And/or not knowing what we want.

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This is not about burnout/depression but this paper shows a link between religion and mental health.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705681/

About religious/spiritual factors in  depression https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/  a quote: "A large and growing volume of research suggests that religious or spiritual (R/S) beliefs and practices may be used to cope with or adapt to stressful life circumstances."

Edited by Itoero

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1 hour ago, Itoero said:

This is not about burnout/depression but this paper shows a link between religion and mental health.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705681/

About religious/spiritual factors in  depression https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/  a quote: "A large and growing volume of research suggests that religious or spiritual (R/S) beliefs and practices may be used to cope with or adapt to stressful life circumstances."

It all comes down to whether one is more prone to wanting his/her stress levels being lowered by living a fairy tale or cares more about the objective reality and truth. Not everyone is the same - some people (probably most) benefit mentally from living in a fairy tale and some might despise it, some others might not care at all.

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21 minutes ago, koti said:

It all comes down to whether one is more prone to wanting his/her stress levels being lowered by living a fairy tale or cares more about the objective reality and truth. Not everyone is the same - some people (probably most) benefit mentally from living in a fairy tale and some might despise it, some others might not care at all.

There more to it than that. The community and feelings of belonging in a church group are powerful, as is having a shared outlook and large group of others able to lean in and help you when in need. 

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1 hour ago, iNow said:

There more to it than that. The community and feelings of belonging in a church group are powerful, as is having a shared outlook and large group of others able to lean in and help you when in need. 

Sure. Or you can go to a football match and have the same.

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1 hour ago, koti said:

Sure. Or you can go to a football match and have the same.

Help stop getting your head kicked in by the opposing supporters. <_<

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1 hour ago, koti said:

Sure. Or you can go to a football match and have the same.

No, that is not even close to being the same. I can only guess you've never belonged to a church group. 

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7 hours ago, zapatos said:

No, that is not even close to being the same. I can only guess you've never belonged to a church group. 

Not only you are correct above, I also don’t attend football matches. 

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11 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Help stop getting your head kicked in by the opposing supporters. <_<

Or you could support Glasgow Rangers or Celtic and get your head kicked in because you support the wrong religion or wrong club.

:rolleyes:

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:36 PM, Itoero said:

I know many people that go in or have been in depression/burnout.

What can cause this? It's very secular where I live, can this be related?

Do you have a repetitive job or lifestyle or stale relationship?
You should consult with a professional but if we are discussing this topic, the solution is most likely change.

Do you have a job where you are just crunching numbers all day and have no contact with other people?  Maybe you have a very stressful job that requires you to sacrifice your personal life.
After job, do you just go home and watch Netflix or play games every day and have the same routine?
Are the relationships in life partner/friends very boring and meeting seeing them sometimes feel like an obligation more than something you look forward to?

I guess these are a few common points that cause burnout depression.
 

Maybe something is missing in their life. An ambition a dream, a goal.
Where I live I feel like a main reason for depression in people is loneliness or being with the wrong person again for fear of loneliness.

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1 hour ago, Silvestru said:

Where I live I feel like a main reason for depression in people is loneliness or being with the wrong person again for fear of loneliness.

Much more relevant than secularism or religiosity is growing use of social media and the way we compare ourselves to the curated and polished versions others post to their various channels (like instagram). We feel "less than" when we see others living these fabulous lives (even though others have similar problems in life, but choose to censor those from their posting activity).

For years, studies have shown correlations, and now the data is suggesting causative links: https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/10.1521/jscp.2018.37.10.751

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

Much more relevant than secularism or religiosity is growing use of social media and the way we compare ourselves to the curated and polished versions others post to their various channels (like instagram). We feel "less than" when we see others living these fabulous lives (even though others have similar problems in life, but choose to censor those from their posting activity).

For years, studies have shown correlations, and now the data is suggesting causative links: https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/10.1521/jscp.2018.37.10.751

2

Indeed

On 1/13/2019 at 3:07 PM, dimreepr said:
It's probably culture over time, to think about things
 

 

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