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You cannot compare things that are not comparable.

A surgeon and a politician: how many years of study do you need to become a politician??

I think that was part of the point of the quote.

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I heard about 100 tories are ready to back him.

 

Maybe he's considering whether it would be worth it: he knows he would have to preside over a complete mess.

 

Imagine - we could live in a world with Putin, Trump and Boris all as national leaders...

 

Loathe him or hate him Boris did not make a complete pig's ear of the second biggest job in UK politics

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Loathe him or hate him Boris did not make a complete pig's ear of the second biggest job in UK politics

 

I'm sure he is a lot smarter than he pretends to be (what's that all about?) which is why I suspect he may be having second thoughts...

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I'm sure he is a lot smarter than he pretends to be (what's that all about?) which is why I suspect he may be having second thoughts...

 

"what's that all about?" - 250k a year for writing a weekly opinion column, more than that in tv show fees, mayor of london, next pm ... I would say the deliberate decision to play the clown is working pretty damn well

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Loathe him or hate him Boris did not make a complete pig's ear of the second biggest job in UK politics

 

 

I don't doubt his intelligence, but neither do i doubt his divisiveness. Farage took a lot of the blame for this in the leave campaign but Boris' rhetoric was just as much 'us' versus 'them'.

 

London mayor 2nd biggest job in UK politics?

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At the end of the day, what's done is done. Maybe, once the markets settle and the pound finds it new level and the British Government replaces the lost funding we get for research and developments of poorer areas, maybe we will do better trading with the whole world as our customers, rather than having all our trade dictated to us by the EU. Maybe this will shake up the EU into rethinking their forced, undemocratic set up that no average man in the street actually wanted or asked for or ever voted for. Maybe (optimist mode: ON) the world will one day be a better place because the EU is reformed with proper rules and with democratic selection of it's leaders....

 

I voted to remain in.... I can sympathise with the leave camp but didn't think it would happen. I just hope some good comes of it for the EU as a whole. We need to weather through this storm first and get on with our work. Who knows? Maybe there will be a return for the UK in the future once the EU sorts out its ball and chain of bureaucracy and corruption.

 

You see, the issue that I see or the disappointment that I have does not stem from the immediate economic ramifications. Rather, there is a whole range connected to the Brexit vote.

1) people can be easily manipulated to vote against their interest without any shred of evidence and by exclusively appealing to feels

2) the results and aftermath basically demonstrated that a sizable portion of the population are not "concerned citizens" but outright xenophobes and bigots (as a corollary, it also shows that even if one removed all visible minorities chances are that some other scapegoat is found)

3) while this mainly shows the because of that, we see legitimization of extreme right-wing "policies" which do not need a foundation in reality to be successful

4) we have seen that behavior more than a couple of times throughout recent as well as not so recent history. The only thing we do learn from this is obviously that we don't.

 

I could add more to that, but it is just overall depressing.

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One wonders if holding this

direct referendum to decide an important issue will be setting a precedent for the future. For example will Great Britain first hold a direct referendum to gauge public support before deploying its military forces into an active combat situation somewhere in the world, like Syria?

Edited by Bill Angel

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One wonders if holding this

direct referendum to decide an important issue will be setting a precedent for the future. For example will Great Britain first hold a direct referendum to gauge public support before deploying its military forces into an active combat situation somewhere in the world, like Syria?

Maybe it will remind us why we don't have referenda very often.

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Thus is a pretty great visualization of margin of Leave and Remain by geography:

 

One of the interesting things about that visual is that the counties who benefit the most from the EU by way of funding and aid from the EU voted to leave. By interesting, I actually mean insane.

 

Counties like Cornwall who voted to leave the EU and then when realisation hit that the millions they were receiving from the EU in aid, not to mention the fact that businesses in the county trade predominately with EU countries would see said aid stop and trade slowed or stopped, started to wonder if the UK Government would be able to pay them the same amount each year in aid.

 

It is hard to comprehend the leave vote.

 

One of the biggest losers in this is the science sector in the UK.

 

In the words of Dr. Sarah Main, the Director of the Campaign for Science and Engineering:

 

“This outcome provides a real challenge for our sector. Science is an area where the relationship between the UK and the EU was particularly beneficial. Not least because scientists won billions of pounds of research funding for the UK (€8.8bn between 2007 and 2013), above and beyond what we put in. In addition, free movement of people in the EU made it easy for scientists to travel, collaborate and share ideas with the best in Europe and for companies and universities in the UK to easily access top talent from Europe.

Many scientists and engineers will be disappointed. The sector consistently showed huge support for EU membership. Our sector is facing great change with the Higher Education and Research bill currently going through Parliament. And leaving the EU will no doubt have huge additional impact on our universities and research businesses.

 

The general response from the scientific community (Dr Main is but one who released statements on the Brexit vote, other scientists in the UK have also voiced concerns in the same link) is one of dismay and concern. And rightly so. The concern that the UK will not be able to provide equal or adequate funding to the scientific community for research and studies, for example, could very well set them back.

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So, Boris Johnson has officially taken himself out of the running for PM: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/boris-johnson-announces-he-wont-stand-to-be-leader-of-the-tory-party-5976522

 

I guess he realized that presiding over a train wreck, one way or the other, is probably not going to be good for the career of whoever finds themself in the conductor's seat.

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I am not exactly surprised after him being so quiet for so long.

 

A BBC journalist said he thought it was because Michael "Baby Face" Gove was running. I had assumed it was the other way round.

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I am not exactly surprised after him being so quiet for so long.

 

A BBC journalist said he thought it was because Michael "Baby Face" Gove was running. I had assumed it was the other way round.

I had come to the same conclusion that you did.

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How come no-one has proposed 'best two out of three' yet ?

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I don't think we really even another referendum. Instead just a vote in parliament on the principle that every constituent country that makes up the UK must agree, or at the very least a majority of countries, to major changes that would effect the entirety of the United Kingdom such as exiting from the European Union for example. Given that a large majority of MP's support remaining in the EU they may welcome the opportunity for such a vote on a fair and reasonable democratic principle that could also provide the necessary political cover for remaining whilst also keeping the United Kingdom together. It would then prevent them from having to vote through the necessary legislation that would give the government the power to envoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, something which couldn't be retracted and which the majority have already publicly stated as being very much against the national interest.

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How come no-one has proposed 'best two out of three' yet ?

 

Too wishy-washy, imo. There are stronger proposals left. But I really wish Parliament would squish this because of the lies.

 

This case shows there's a need for a more nuanced approach to the conflict between truth from politicians and the protection of free speech. Politics isn't held to the same regulations as advertising your goods or services to the public. There are good reasons why not, but surely there must be better ways to let EVERYONE know when a campaign's promises aren't true. Unfortunately, the way our news is aggregated for us, many people aren't exposed to the information every voter should have.

 

Why should our leaders be allowed to lie, and why is it important to allow them to? For a system like this to work, doesn't there need to be a better way to reach more people about fact-checking?

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One of my favourite radio programs / podcasts is the BBC's More or Less. They fact-check numbers in the news (among other things). They had a very fair and balanced set of reports on the referendum. No one listening to them could really vote for Leave based on the facts.

 

Even the economists and other experts they interviewed from the Leave side generally agreed (with a few exceptions) that it would make little difference to trade or immigration. Or even the number of regulations "imposed" by Europe. They wanted to leave for vague, cuddly reasons such as "retaining sovereignty". Ah, bless.

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One of my favourite radio programs / podcasts is the BBC's More or Less. They fact-check numbers in the news (among other things). They had a very fair and balanced set of reports on the referendum. No one listening to them could really vote for Leave based on the facts.

 

Instead of those lighted scrolling signs that have stock prices constantly being updated, we need the same thing with political fact-checking. Put them wherever people have to wait on line, like grocery stores and banks.

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now Nigel resigns as UKIP leader.

 

Mind you, he has done that before!

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UK should be a part of USA.

 

I don't think so. After all, they speak a different language.

 

And we really don't want their gun laws.

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I don't think we really even another referendum. Instead just a vote in parliament on the principle that every constituent country that makes up the UK must agree, or at the very least a majority of countries, to major changes that would effect the entirety of the United Kingdom such as exiting from the European Union for example. Given that a large majority of MP's support remaining in the EU they may welcome the opportunity for such a vote on a fair and reasonable democratic principle that could also provide the necessary political cover for remaining whilst also keeping the United Kingdom together. It would then prevent them from having to vote through the necessary legislation that would give the government the power to envoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, something which couldn't be retracted and which the majority have already publicly stated as being very much against the national interest.

 

 

I saw an analysis of the demographics, with the conclusion that owing to the two-year timeline, there will be more "Stay" population than "Leave" population then. Younger voters lean heavily to "Stay" and will be added to the rolls, and older population is heavily "Leave" and some number of them will die in that time.

 

So if you run to where the ball will be, (even without taking into account the idiots who voted to leave even though they didn't mean it), assuming the same trends, the majority will want to stay by then.

 

That's before considering whether this shouldn't be influenced by a simple majority, or whether by country it should be unanimous, which are both very reasonable conditions.

 

I don't think so. After all, they speak a different language.

 

And we really don't want their gun laws.

 

And as for the other way around, well, we tried that and it ended in a contentious divorce.

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I saw an analysis of the demographics, with the conclusion that owing to the two-year timeline, there will be more "Stay" population than "Leave" population then. Younger voters lean heavily to "Stay" and will be added to the rolls, and older population is heavily "Leave" and some number of them will die in that time.

 

So if you run to where the ball will be, (even without taking into account the idiots who voted to leave even though they didn't mean it), assuming the same trends, the majority will want to stay by then.

 

That's before considering whether this shouldn't be influenced by a simple majority, or whether by country it should be unanimous, which are both very reasonable conditions.

 

 

And as for the other way around, well, we tried that and it ended in a contentious divorce.

On the other hand, we could think of it more as running away from home as a child and now having to take in our aging parent as they begin developing signs of senility.

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