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Religion

Forum for the discussion and examination of the rational foundations of religion.

Philosophy and Religion Rules

Participation in the philosophy and religion forums on SFN is considered a privilege. To maintain a reasonable standard of debate, certain rules must be established. Members who violate these rules despite warnings from staff will no longer be allowed to participate in the religion forums.

Philosophy/religion forum rules:

  1. Never make it personal.
    1. Disagreements about beliefs should never be in the form of attacks on the believers. This isn't a place to air grievances. Civility and respect towards other members are needed here even more than elsewhere on SFN, even when you disagree.
    2. Disagreements about beliefs should never be interpreted as attacks on the believers, even when they are. If you can't handle having your beliefs questioned, you don't belong here. If you feel insulted, that does not excuse you from rule 1.a.
  2. Don't use attacks on evolution, the big bang theory, or any other widely acknowledged scientific staple as a means of proving religious matters. Using scientific reasoning is fine, but there are certain religious questions that science cannot answer for you.
  3. Do not post if you have already determined that nothing can change your views. This is a forum for discussion, not lectures or debates.



Of course, the general SFN forum rules also apply. If a member consistently violates the general rules in the religion forum (for example, by being consistently off-topic), their access to the religion forum may be revoked.

These conditions are not up for debate, and they must be adhered to by all members. If you don't understand them, ask for advice from a moderator before posting.

  1. People, Evidence to consider. If you want to change background to white on web page then look to top right hand corner of web page for small mechanical symbol and click on it and choose. Look to the other side for the small contents symbol to navigate through the books. Chapter X.—Creation Implies Providence. Then the old man said: "You are following it out exceedingly well." Then Niceta: "Now, then, we must inquire concerning the method of the world; of which the first inquiry is divided into two parts. For it is asked whether it has been made or not? And if it has not been made, itself must be that Unbegotten from which all things are. But if it ha…

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  2. People, Evidence to consider. If you want to change background to white on web page then look to top right hand corner of web page for small mechanical symbol and click on it and choose. Look to the other side for the small contents symbol to navigate through the books. Part of. Chapter XVIII.—The Concourse of Atoms Could Not Make the World. "Then, in the next place, if they are ceaselessly borne about, and always coming, and being added to things whose measure is already complete, how can the universe stand, when new weights are always being heaped upon so vast weights? And this also I ask: If this expanse of heaven which we see was constructed by …

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  3. hypervalent_iodine, Will you give me your opinion about part of post 968 that John Cuthber posted ? You may read it below.

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  4. True or false maybe ? "Chapter XX.—Some Parts of the Old Testament Written to Try Us Wherefore every man who wishes to be saved must become, as the Teacher said, a judge of the books written to try us. For thus He spake: 'Become experienced bankers.' Now the need of bankers arises from the circumstance that the spurious is mixed up with the genuine." Source (link removed by moderator, please see SFN forum rule 2.7 to see why)

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  5. But it seems that reasoning predates religion in our evolutionary history. There is no clear evidence of religion in apes, although some people speculate (e.g. "Chuck Blanchard"), and you might find some inter-specific (across species) examples of religion if you bend the definition. In contrast, we now know that apes can reason and have some surprising mental skills (e.g. chimp eidetic memory), and it's obvious that these mental skills, including reasoning, were advantageous. Thus, it seems obvious that, when reasoning and religion conflict, we should follow reason. In conclusion, religion shouldn't impede reasoning because, whatever adaptive functionality religion h…

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  6. Started by immortal,

    According to Max Muller, the proto Indo-Iranian religion started of as sun worship and later branched into independent religions of the Persian god of Mithra and the vedic god of Mitra. Mithraism was one of the most popular religions of the roman imperialism along side Christianity and the origins of Mithraism in Rome is still disputed (See - Mithraic Mysteries and Mithraism and Christianity). What is Mithras Liturgy? It was first coined as Mithras Liturgy by the german scholar Albrecht Dieterich. The Germans were always interested in these things and they are still interested in it even to this date. It was later translated into english by Hans Dieter Betz w…

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  7. You may look at two translations of a part of a bible. A translation by me and one from The Darby Translation. Before you compare you may need me to tell you that benefitting people sometimes is not the same as doing like they want you to and being silent may be beneficial as speaking a word to someone. Sometimes doing what a person doesn't want you to do is beneficial for everyone including yourself and serving. A time to be silent is if you guess by someones words or actions they don't want to help you and no-one else mostly benefits by you speaking. To help be silent you may need to keep your top lip and bottom lip touching and try not to screw your lips up…

  8. A story you may want to read. Part of it below. 'The king said to him, ‘Do you not think that Bel is a living god? Do you not see how much he eats and drinks every day?’ And Daniel laughed, and said, ‘Do not be deceived, O king, for this thing is only clay inside and bronze outside, and it never ate or drank anything.’ To look at complete story go to oremus Bible Browser, look for the box near top of web page and under "Enter a bible reference" put "bel and the dragon" then press Enter key. Part of story quoted from The New Revised Standard Version (Anglicized Edition).

  9. True or false ? Chapter LIII.—Everything Has Its Corresponding Contrary. “Therefore this division holds in all the things of the world; and as there are pious men, so there are also impious; as there are prophets, so also there are false prophets; and amongst the Gentiles there are philosophers and false philosophers. Also the Arabian nations, and many others, have imitated the circumcision of the Jews for the service of their impiety. So also the worship of demons is contrary to the divine worship, baptism to baptism, laws to the law, false apostles to apostles, and false teachers to teachers. And hence it is that among the philosophers some assert providence,…

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  10. You may agree that to learn about Jesus's sayings you need to be taught by an early church father, an example may be John Chrysostom of about 4th century A.D. You may read from a link below an explanation of Sermon on the Mount of Matthew 5. 1,2. until the end of Matthew 7. 28. Part of. Homily XV. Matt. V. 1, 2. “And Jesus seeing the multitudes went up into the mountain, and when He was set, His disciples came unto Him. And He opened His mouth, and taught them saying, Blessed,” etc. See how unambitious He was, and void of boasting: in that He did not lead people about with Him, but whereas, when healing was required, He had Himself gone about everywhe…

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  11. Started by Polednice,

    The fact that the orderly language of mathematics is capable of describing our universe, and the fact that our brains are powerful enough to invent and utilise mathematical concepts, is often considered a compelling example of why the universe must require a designer. This is one of the more tempting theological arguments, but I'd like you to consider some points against it, and show me where I may be making wrong steps. Essentially, I think this view is an entirely hubristic one. It seems to rest on the unwarranted (and probably unacknowledged) assumption that the human intellect is a superior one, and that the mathematics it uses is intrinsically good. It seems perf…

  12. Started by dimreepr,

    What is the difference between religion and a cult? Is it simply numbers, or is the difference more fundamental? I.e. is brainwashing a factor?

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  13. Malevolent Moronic Misleading Mormon Myths

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  14. Started by MonDie,

    I think I avoid death because of my self, not my consciousness. Consciousness by itself is constantly renewed like the skin of a shedding salamander, so there is no reason to call it ours and fear losing it. However, the idea of a self incorporates the concepts of will and progress, and I don't want to die because I will lose my progress. So I don't fear 'Game Over' because my turn will be done, I fear it because I want to finish the game. I know it's more difficult to be happy with this attitude, but it's the attitude I've chosen. Nirvana can kiss my ass.

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  15. Started by rigney,

    His intellect alone could have taken him into any scientific field he desired, yet he chose to do this. Why? This link is just short of an hour long, so unless you are interested; don't even start.

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  16. Started by Externet,

    As mentioned on Genesis 4.17, the wife of Cain ?

  17. "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe," did anyone see/observe with an electron microscope/ohm meter/hplc etc etc the "big bang" or "stellar nucleo synthesis" or "in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth" or "aliens seeded us here" or "allah made us" , if the answer to this question is "yes" well...i would be interested in your response lol...if it is no.....well you have a religous belief.... thank you for your time etc etc lol just throwing a spanner in the works so to speak lool haha just bored... dictionary.com a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when c…

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  18. Started by Externet,

    Such "tree of life" is mentioned in Genesis 3.22. What is it ?

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  19. Started by Externet,

    What does "the land of Nod" mean as mentioned on Genesis 4.16 ?

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  20. hay this fascinates me: 2 peter 3-6 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 4- is this referring to the concept of gradualism/uniformitarianism? ( ie evolutionary model says world has been as is es…

  21. Started by rigney,

    It would be nice to have two or three hundred years as a lifetime to distinguish between the good and bad points of our existance that we have been exposed to. But when I watch something like this, it makes me wonder? I'm not religious by any stretch, but this kind of nut "scares hell" out of me. Can we make a destinction between scientific knowledge and an unfalsifiable religion with people like this around?

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  22. Started by Moontanman,

    The idea of god is slippery to say the least but could our entire biosphere be likened to a colonial organism that is self aware in the way that ants and or termites colonies are aware? Would such a super organism qualify as being a god? The Earths biosphere could be alive and even aware in it's own way and trying to control the environment much like our bodies mechanisms control the conditions inside our bodies. Quite possibly we are the brain of the organism but we are unaware of the over mind which only seeks to live and doesn't care who dies or suffers individually. It could communicate and control it's various parts through viruses and or feed back loo…

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  23. Started by Externet,

    Hi all. Is there in the world a nation, tribe, ethnicity... with no content of religion in their beliefs/activities ? No scriptures, commandments, rites... ?

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  24. Started by ydoaPs,

    Is it a sin to be rich? "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell…

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  25. Started by dropsoftruth1,

    The video, which include Scintist quotes about Religion and God. It is educational and useful.

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