Comments on Political Humor (split from Political Humor)

[John Cuthber]

26 minutes ago, TheVat said:

In the United States, the comparison of black people to apes or monkeys, is a horrible slur,

Just as well nobody did it here then.

[StringJunky]

Intent is everything, and most of us know JC is a pedant/stickler for definitions. I've been feeling quite gay today. The onus is on the reader to parse which version of 'gay' I meant.

"Confusion will be my epitaph, as I walk the cracked and broken path" - King Crimson

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by StringJunky

[zapatos]

3 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Intent is everything

No, intent is some of it. So is being respectful of your audience. 

I wouldn't use the C word in front of a group of women even if I was factually reciting a list of derogatory terms for females. Living in a society comes with some responsibilities. People have free speech, but not freedom from consequences. Hiding behind the cloak of 'intent' and 'definitions' will not save me from the wrath of those I've offended, nor should it.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

It overlaps, but satire can be devoid of it and still be satire. Swift's A Modest Proposal  is one. It is not a required component to qualify. You seem to be tapdancing with your clause in brackets, are you not going to commit yourself that it is or isn't?

As you say, it overlaps. Some satire is humor. Some humor is not satire. One is not conflating the two.

But a humorist who uses satire is probably doing the humorous version.

[MigL]

There is plenty of humor in this discussion.

It's funny how people are so set in their ways ( ideologies ) that they refuse to even see alternative viewpoints.
Monntanman mentioning the 'taking' of land by the Israeli Jews, when it was actually established in the colonially ( British ) mandated lands of Palestine.
He mentions the bulldozing and herding into small compounds without mentioning that Arabs and Palestinians are free to live in Israel and can even be members of government.
He fails to mention how some of these 'compounds' can elect governments whose sole purpose is the eradication of Israel and how these compounds, having no food or medicine for their people, manage to get their hands on thousands of home-made rockets that are indiscriminately launched into Israeli population centers.

TheVat is so concerned about he association of apes with blacks in American racist culture, for which he blasts JohnCuthber that he fails to see the problems Europe has with racism.  It's not an American thing when bananas are thrown onto the pitch at most major soccer/football games with black team members.

Or Zapatos having a problem using the 'c' word ( TBH so do I ), when it is very common in the UK, and thrown about with careless abandon.

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?
Why do we, individually, want the whole world to recognze/respect our own individual sensitivities ?
Why can a word/idea used by one individual 'hurt', but be perfectly acceptable if used by another ?

I may not like MisterMack's political views, but, if he tells me a statement is a joke, I'll consider it as such and try to find the humor in it; there always is.

Edited February 9, 2023 by MigL

[zapatos]

10 minutes ago, MigL said:

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?

I think you are mistaken on this point. I believe people have always been offended when called a C or N or "boy" or "ape" or "squaw" or "redskin" or "kike" or "jew boy"or "chink", but due to their relative weakness just had to live with it. What has changed is that minorities have more power than they used to have and instead of quietly fuming at the insult (what you interpret as "not being offended") they are speaking out.

20 minutes ago, MigL said:

Why can a word/idea used by one individual 'hurt', but be perfectly acceptable if used by another ?

Primarily because people are different. If a term is used to dehumanize people like you so that you can be murdered and fed to the pigs, you can be 'hurt' by that term. Emotionally and physically.

29 minutes ago, MigL said:

Why do we, individually, want the whole world to recognze/respect our own individual sensitivities ?

In part because it helps interactions run more smoothly. If you had a brother who was taunted by the word "retard" and he was abused during his life because of a low IQ, you would probably find it easier to work with someone who didn't cavalierly toss about the term "retard" when around you.

[Moontanman]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

There is plenty of humor in this discussion.

It's funny how people are so set in their ways ( ideologies ) that they refuse to even see alternative viewpoints.
Monntanman mentioning the 'taking' of land by the Israeli Jews, when it was actually established in the colonially ( British ) mandated lands of Palestine.
He mentions the bulldozing and herding into small compounds without mentioning that Arabs and Palestinians are free to live in Israel and can even be members of government.
He fails to mention how some of these 'compounds' can elect governments whose sole purpose is the eradication of Israel and how these compounds, having no food or medicine for their people, manage to get their hands on thousands of home-made rockets that are indiscriminately launched into Israeli population centers.

TheVat is so concerned about he association of apes with blacks in American racist culture, for which he blasts JohnCuthber that he fails to see the problems Europe has with racism.  It's not an American thing when bananas are thrown onto the pitch at most major soccer/football games with black team members.

Or Zapatos having a problem using the 'c' word ( TBH so do I ), when it is very common in the UK, and thrown about with careless abandon.

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?
Why do we, individually, want the whole world to recognze/respect our own individual sensitivities ?
Why can a word/idea used by one individual 'hurt', but be perfectly acceptable if used by another ?

I may not like MisterMack's political views, but, if he tells me a statement is a joke, I'll consider it as such and try to find the humor in it; there always is.

And you fail to mention how the Israelis drove out the majority of the Palestinians, bulldozed their homes, killed them outright to make them leave and confined most of them to tiny areas they now occupy. As for where their missiles come from. I would imagine that they come from other countries who have a stake in harassing the Israelis. This is not a complex issue, yes the British tried to make an Israeli homeland but like lots of effort the British put into partitioning other peoples lands this effort resulted in lots of violence because the people who already lived there were not given the same rights the Israelis enjoyed. Just because god or the british told the jews they could have this land didn't justify the methods they used to eliminate the people who already lived there.  

[CharonY]

44 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I think you are mistaken on this point. I believe people have always been offended when called a C or N or "boy" or "ape" or "squaw" or "redskin" or "kike" or "jew boy"or "chink", but due to their relative weakness just had to live with it.

I think it is not only an issue of power (though it can be) but to a large extent it is exhaustion. The acts of what is now called microaggression often were normalized and even if pushback was successful, dealing with it on a regular basis, especially as it likely would not change anything, makes it easier to just ignore than to fight.

I also suspect that this continues to be the modus operandi for most folks, but social media allows the voices that do object to be magnified (for better or worse). 

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?
Why do we, individually, want the whole world to recognze/respect our own individual sensitivities ?
Why can a word/idea used by one individual 'hurt', but be perfectly acceptable if used by another ?

Context. Which is why it is mostly futile to try to come up with "objective" rules. 

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?

Eh, I don't see how it has changed. Mostly about what folks get offended by, actually. Try to talk to folks about how stereotyping whole groups of people is harmful maybe one or two decades ago and see them implode because they feel that you accused them racism.

[mistermack]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Monntanman mentioning the 'taking' of land by the Israeli Jews, when it was actually established in the colonially ( British ) mandated lands of Palestine.

The British had no right to give away the land of Palestine. Nor did the United Nations. It wasn't theirs to give. Just because they did it, doesn't make it less of a theft. 

The British fought the influx of Jews quite vigorously to begin with. Not to be fair to the Palestinians, but because they wanted to keep control of the region. Once they saw that they were fighting a losing battle against the Jews, they did an about-face. 

 

[iNow]

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

Try to talk to folks about how stereotyping whole groups of people is harmful maybe one or two decades ago and see them implode because they feel that you accused them racism.

You misspelled minutes. 

[MigL]

You guys all seem to have missed the point ...
The funny part is no-one can see, or is willing to consider, the other's point of view.

And not just us, but the Israelis and Palestinians also, which is why they can't move forward and find a peaceful solution.

Sometimes comedy and humor give us the opportunity to share our viewpoints, and consider others', without the confrontation.

Edited February 10, 2023 by MigL

[zapatos]

16 minutes ago, MigL said:

You guys all seem to have missed the point ...

And here I thought I directly responded to the questions you posed.

[MigL]

The questions were rhetorical, meant to underline my point of view.

Maybe had I added an emoji or two, and said in a joking manner, you wouldn't be so confrontational ...

[mistermack]

8 hours ago, MigL said:

The funny part is no-one can see, or is willing to consider, the other's point of view.

And not just us, but the Israelis and Palestinians also, which is why they can't move forward and find a peaceful solution.

They won't find a peaceful solution because the zionists have an ongoing agenda that is nowhere near complete. It's to completely clear the country of Palastinians. Every time trouble dies down, the government applies enough pressure to ensure a flare-up. As they control everything, it's easy for them to keep it going, and constantly portray the Palestinians as terrorists. And the Palestinians have two choices. Constantly take it, or kick back now and then. Both of which suit the zionist project. 

If things go quiet, they bulldoze more houses, or torture a few prisoners. It's always just enough to keep the pot boiling.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

They won't find a peaceful solution because the zionists have an ongoing agenda that is nowhere near complete. It's to completely clear the country of Palastinians. Every time trouble dies down, the government applies enough pressure to ensure a flare-up. As they control everything, it's easy for them to keep it going, and constantly portray the Palestinians as terrorists. And the Palestinians have two choices. Constantly take it, or kick back now and then. Both of which suit the zionist project. 

If things go quiet, they bulldoze more houses, or torture a few prisoners. It's always just enough to keep the pot boiling.

Aliens moved into Palestine after 1947 with our assistance and then proceeded to suppress  the natives so that they can act out a spurious dystopian societal fantasy depicted by a book.

[TheVat]

17 hours ago, MigL said:

TheVat is so concerned about he association of apes with blacks in American racist culture, for which he blasts JohnCuthber that he fails to see the problems Europe has with racism.  It's not an American thing when bananas are thrown onto the pitch at most major soccer/football games with black team members.

You misunderstood me.  I am aware Europe has such racism, and the blacks-are-subhuman thing has many ugly forms.  I was aware he intended nothing along those lines, and I was rather urging awareness that in places like the US his original subtitle would, due to our notably fraught history of race relations, offend some people.  (and, unfortunately, derail the innocent joke he was making)  I would love to live in an America where things have resolved themselves to where such jokes bounce off harmlessly.  That would be wonderful.

 

12 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Aliens moved into Palestine after 1947 with our assistance and then proceeded to suppress  the natives so that they can act out a spurious dystopian societal fantasy depicted by a book.

The America I love is one that supports human rights everywhere, not just select spots.  I feel like our support of Jewish people would be more credible if it were matched by our support of other displaced people.  Both Britain, back in the day, and the US, have shown callous disregard of Palestinian Arabs, and it is only ideology that can warp someone's perception to where they think that's okay.

I live in a Native American area of my country, and have witnessed up close the effects of theft, brutality, and displacement, (and blaming the victims when they kick back) so I am aware of the "nuances," especially the ones that Zionists seem to conveniently ignore.   Could we split these posts off for a separate thread?

[zapatos]

10 hours ago, MigL said:

Maybe had I added an emoji or two, and said in a joking manner, you wouldn't be so confrontational ...

Hmm. When you  put it that way I guess I do see why you posted the following questions...

17 hours ago, MigL said:

Doesn't anyone else see the humor in how easily offended everyone has become ?
Why do we, individually, want the whole world to recognze/respect our own individual sensitivities ?

Clearly you were talking about yourself.

By definition, since I am in opposition to your position on this issue, my responses are going to be "confrontational". I'm sorry you're offended by my posting style.

[StringJunky]

28 minutes ago, TheVat said:

You misunderstood me.  I am aware Europe has such racism, and the blacks-are-subhuman thing has many ugly forms.  I was aware he intended nothing along those lines, and I was rather urging awareness that in places like the US his original subtitle would, due to our notably fraught history of race relations, offend some people.  (and, unfortunately, derail the innocent joke he was making)  I would love to live in an America where things have resolved themselves to where such jokes bounce off harmlessly.  That would be wonderful.

 

The America I love is one that supports human rights everywhere, not just select spots.  I feel like our support of Jewish people would be more credible if it were matched by our support of other displaced people.  Both Britain, back in the day, and the US, have shown callous disregard of Palestinian Arabs, and it is only ideology that can warp someone's perception to where they think that's okay.

I live in a Native American area of my country, and have witnessed up close the effects of theft, brutality, and displacement, (and blaming the victims when they kick back) so I am aware of the "nuances," especially the ones that Zionists seem to conveniently ignore.   Could we split these posts off for a separate thread?

Yes, splitting would be appropriate if the mods agree.

By design or consequence, the Zionist aspirations mirror Aryanism and Apartheid.

Edited February 10, 2023 by StringJunky

[iNow]

11 hours ago, MigL said:

no-one can see, or is willing to consider, the other's point of view

Or we've considered it deeply and found it flawed, lacking, and contrary to our personal values. 

[MigL]

7 hours ago, iNow said:

Or we've considered it deeply and found it flawed, lacking, and contrary to our personal values. 

You've considered that human nature is often quite humorous ?
and you found that flawed and contrary to your personal values ?

Have you also considered MisterMack's and Stringy's one-sided, black and white interpretation of the situation ?
MisterMack clearly refuses to see the many aspects of the situation in the Middle East, while Stringy doesn't realize that the Zionist 'book of values' is the same one used by Palestinians, with an appendix added.

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

By definition, since I am in opposition to your position on this issue, my responses are going to be "confrontational". I'm sorry you're offended by my posting style.

I'm not offended by much as it seems to be a useless emotion.
I am a little disturbed by how serious everyone is these days, and their unwillingness to see the humor in many situations.

 

9 hours ago, mistermack said:

They won't find a peaceful solution because the zionists have an ongoing agenda that is nowhere near complete. It's to completely clear the country of Palastinians.

You do know that there are Palestinians walking about the streets, and living their lives, in Israel without any Zionist giving them grief.
I wonder how long an Israeli Jew would last walking about the Gaza strip.

And if you don't know, maybe it's time you read up on the subject; get a clue before you get an opinion.

I also suggest that political opinions be in a separate thread from one that is supposedly discussing the appropriateness, or lameness, of some attempts at humor.

Edited February 10, 2023 by MigL

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

I am a little disturbed by how serious everyone is these days, and their unwillingness to see the humor in many situations.

I wonder if the number of people who are unwilling to see humor in many situations is any different than it was in the past. I don't know if there are any studies on the subject but if I had to guess I'd say people are generally happier than in the past. Life has certainly improved over the past 50 years for blacks, women, gays, poor people, sick people, and many others. It is easier to find humor in your life when you can find work you are qualified for regardless of your gender, and laws don't discriminate against you because of who you love.

People who don't like change on the other hand have had to deal a lot, so certainly that group might be offended on a day to day basis. A lot of old conservatives for example seem to be in a pissy mood every day. That's just anecdotal though.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

You've considered that human nature is often quite humorous ?
and you found that flawed and contrary to your personal values ?

Exactly! I wish my wife understood me as well as you do. Send nudes. 

/WhatHaveIDone

[MigL]

16 hours ago, zapatos said:

A lot of old conservatives for example seem to be in a pissy mood every day.

That has nothing to do with being a conservative or liberal.
All OLD people are grumpy.

But that's ok

15 hours ago, iNow said:

Send nudes. 

some people seem to like old men 😄 .

( does this lame attempt at humor hurt the sensibilities of gay people ? )

[zapatos]

2 minutes ago, MigL said:

That has nothing to do with being a conservative or liberal.

Sure it does. You just can't see it.

[MigL]

Maybe you can cite a study that shows old cnservatives are more "pissy" than old liberals.

They may be more mean, but most old conservatives are rich, with no reason to be miserable or 'pissy'.