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the truth as it may be....


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This may be a unusual way to start a forum but i believe it is very necessary. So if i may appeal to your senses of rationality and intelligence i am starting this forum with a brief description of my experiences.

In the year 2013 i started hearing voices as i am able to describe it to the only correlation that you the reader may understand. It was not in the sense that it was in my head at all but sounded always off in the distance like it was coming from beyond the other side of a building.  I went through strange and unusual dialogue with the voices that even to this day i do not understand. Voices was not the only thing i was experiencing at this length of time i had vivid hallucinations also. With in this length of time there was no true discernment of the reality i was facing. My life was torn in to pieces. It all seemed so real and i could not deny what I was experiencing. To my disliking i ended up getting arrested. There is a lot that has been not been written of what exactly took place. But if you question me i will respond truthfully. So as I was in jail that night it all changed from hearing voices to being lead by a "spirit" as i can only describe it. While in jail i was labeled schizo affective  and took a variety of different pills.  I knew this was not your average  case  because of  what i was experiencing. 

     Being the situation that it was i sought the "professional " help that was available to me .  But this help was limited by the incomplete and often infallible understanding of the mind. Things may never be as it may seem and to me this is my philosophy of science.  For observing the movement of the sun from earth will give the illusion that the sun revolves the earth and it is only perceived this way because as the observer we are in a state that seems stationary. I bring this to thought because like i said the state i was in in 2013 seemed one way to me and others, but the underlying cause was of another nature.  Like I said it all changed for me and this change happened in 2015. the voices I was hearing stopped and a "spirit" revealed its self to me. From that moment to even today at this very moment there is that same being with me. It has caused me to write things describing its purpose and doings showing me some truths of reality. Sad to say not everything in the bible is true. For example we read in the bible the story of the flood which killed off the whole world except for the select few on the ark. Now knowing this and believing that this is the truth we are left with the curious fact that native americans  were living on a totally distinct land from where noah's was to repopulate the earth.  Like i stated this is only an example. 

   I am not here to try to mislead you at all if whoever you may be and you are reading this.

surprising as it may be there is no such thing as free will.  I am not saying this as my opinion or belief but as what i have, and am constantly experiencing. I will only explain it to those that can except it, sadly as it may be for it will take some time to further expound my evidence. 

i will leave you with this quote from Albert Einstien

"If the moon, in the act of completing its eternal way around the Earth, were gifted with self-consciousness, it would feel thoroughly convinced that it was traveling its way of its own accord…. So would a Being, endowed with higher insight and more perfect intelligence, watching man and his doings, smile about man's illusion that he was acting according to his own free will".

 

 

 

         

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First of, what are you trying to discuss? This is a discussion forum.
Secondly, as you stated and implied multiple times, some things can be illusions or seem one way but are another. It seems that you are not applying this to your spirit/voices. There are medical conditions which lead to such believes. How are you able to say that your voice is real an not an illusion played upon you by your mind? 

You also state 'I knew it was not your average case because of what i was experiencing'. How do you know? Why is it not probable that you are (for a lack of a better word) just affected by some disorder that brings about voices in your head. For a lot of people they seem real and acoustic or visual hallucinations/delusions seem real to a lot of people.

You must see the futility of going to a science forum, presenting a case of probable schizophrenia, then trying to convince us that because of what YOU experience(d), it is real?
If another person with delusions comes along, equally convinced that his/her's are real, would you accept their 'evidence' upon hearing this story? What if their 'spirit' contradicts yours? 

Also, this free will thing? Causality and quantum mechanics (in my opinion, and my opinion only (can't speak for others)) already takes away any type of effect you could have on what path your life takes. Is this physical explanation not satisfactory? If not, what 'evidence' makes you now come to this conclusion? 

 

Edited by Dagl1
removed unfinished sentence and changed futileness to futility
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2 hours ago, oddprophet said:

I knew this was not your average  case  because of  what i was experiencing. 

It sounds completely typical of schizophrenia and other causes of hearing voices; right down to the belief that your experience cannot be explained by an "illness".

Quote

it all changed for me and this change happened in 2015. the voices I was hearing stopped and a "spirit" revealed its self to me. From that moment to even today at this very moment there is that same being with me. 

It is good to know that you are not suffering because of the voices any more.

2 hours ago, oddprophet said:

It has caused me to write things describing its purpose and doings showing me some truths of reality. Sad to say not everything in the bible is true.

!

Moderator Note

Do not use this forum to start preaching your beliefs. That is against the rules.

 
2 hours ago, oddprophet said:

Sad to say not everything in the bible is true.

I don't think anyone here will be surprised to hear that. (I think there are some who would say that nothing in the bible is true.)

2 hours ago, oddprophet said:

For example we read in the bible the story of the flood which killed off the whole world except for the select few on the ark. Now knowing this and believing that this is the truth we are left with the curious fact that native americans  were living on a totally distinct land from where noah's was to repopulate the earth. 

Maybe they migrated to North America after the flood (I have a feeling you haven't really thought this argument through).

But actually, as you say, the flood never happened. We know this from the geological record.

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7 hours ago, oddprophet said:

surprising as it may be there is no such thing as free will.  I am not saying this as my opinion or belief but as what i have, and am constantly experiencing.

It's still just an opinion without evidence. 

7 hours ago, oddprophet said:

I will only explain it to those that can except it,

Well that won't work here at all. You need to use evidence and reason to persuade people to trust what you're claiming. 

We aren't going to except it (which means make an exception for it), and we aren't going to accept it (which means believing it) without analyzing the evidence.

7 hours ago, oddprophet said:

sadly as it may be for it will take some time to further expound my evidence.

Historically, we've found that if a person actually has supportive evidence for their extraordinary claims, they lead with it. It would be in your OP because it would be startling enough to make people think you were on to something.

Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science.

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8 hours ago, oddprophet said:

Sad to say not everything in the bible is true.

Maybe it was at the time and can still resonate today; the sad thing is, we lack an interpreter.

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2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

It's still just an opinion without evidence. 

Well that won't work here at all. You need to use evidence and reason to persuade people to trust what you're claiming. 

We aren't going to except it (which means make an exception for it), and we aren't going to accept it (which means believing it) without analyzing the evidence.

Historically, we've found that if a person actually has supportive evidence for their extraordinary claims, they lead with it. It would be in your OP because it would be startling enough to make people think you were on to something.

Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science.

Like i said my evidence is not explained due to the fact of time restraint. Also how can i convince you with something you do not understand 

 

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

It's still just an opinion without evidence. 

Well that won't work here at all. You need to use evidence and reason to persuade people to trust what you're claiming. 

We aren't going to except it (which means make an exception for it), and we aren't going to accept it (which means believing it) without analyzing the evidence.

Historically, we've found that if a person actually has supportive evidence for their extraordinary claims, they lead with it. It would be in your OP because it would be startling enough to make people think you were on to something.

Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science.

Like i said because of time restraints i did not present my evidence because it will take quite some time for me to explain all of it in depth and even still it is like the evidence of philosophy it can only be presented through mental recognizance..  If you could truly understand i said i was labeled schizo affective not schizophrenic and at the moment i didn't doubt the label. Also i have left out what i have experienced. You are quick to assume it is the way you have percieved in your logical presumptions. As if you have never been mistaken. The safest scientifically correct approach is to assume there is a possibility of what i am saying is exactly what it is and also to assume that it could not be as it is. I say this because if we assume we are correct about something and the truth of reality warrants us wrong then what good is our endeavors in finding the truth.

You quoted 

"Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science."

You say most people including me seems to claim to have it but never get around to presenting it.  

Sir this is the first post i have made and how can you assume you know me enough to say i am one of those people. 

Lets present this evidence before you. 

You do not know me !  This is evidence because it is a fact!

You have never met me! 

This is the first post from me!  So how can you say i never get to presenting my case with the evidence of me just beginning to explain this situation. 

And also you have put words there that are not what i intended to write in the sense you said i can only explain it to people that believe me. I never said believe sir . It is written except but i meant accept.  I said i will only explain it to people that can accept it because i know people as it seems just like you assume to know what they are talking about like they are experts in science and philosophical understandings. So i will no waste my time with people that assume they know what they are talking about and have no clue to what i am explaining or leading up to explain. You can not accept what i have said because lack of knowledge and false perceptions that have you in a fabrication of an illusion you can not see. Sir if you call your self an expert then may god help those that you teach. 

 

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8 hours ago, Strange said:

It sounds completely typical of schizophrenia and other causes of hearing voices; right down to the belief that your experience cannot be explained by an "illness".

It is good to know that you are not suffering because of the voices any more.

!

Moderator Note

Do not use this forum to start preaching your beliefs. That is against the rules.

 

I don't think anyone here will be surprised to hear that. (I think there are some who would say that nothing in the bible is true.)

Maybe they migrated to North America after the flood (I have a feeling you haven't really thought this argument through).

But actually, as you say, the flood never happened. We know this from the geological record

Like i said i  was diagnosed schizo affective not  with schizophrenia and honestly in that moment  i thought i was exactly that but if you had the time to sit and hold a conversation with me i will explain to you what i have gone through and am still going through and also sir you may question me with any questions you may have that arises in the moment. My intention is this to hopefully reach an understanding with other logical people that can listen to me and maybe accept what i am saying is a possible truth. 

I do not seek nothing in return but only the progression of a more perfect understanding of reality through scientific endeavors. In which i hope it is an effort people can journey together despite disagreement s only for the sake of the truth.

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8 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

how can i convince you with something you do not understand 

People have been doing that to me my whole life, and it seems to work. I understand LOTS of things now. Science is based on our best current explanation for various phenomena.

 

12 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

Like i said my evidence is not explained due to the fact of time restraint. Also how can i convince you with something you do not understand 

 

Like i said because of time restraints i did not present my evidence because it will take quite some time for me to explain all of it in depth and even still it is like the evidence of philosophy it can only be presented through mental recognizance..  If you could truly understand i said i was labeled schizo affective not schizophrenic and at the moment i didn't doubt the label. Also i have left out what i have experienced. You are quick to assume it is the way you have percieved in your logical presumptions. As if you have never been mistaken. The safest scientifically correct approach is to assume there is a possibility of what i am saying is exactly what it is and also to assume that it could not be as it is. I say this because if we assume we are correct about something and the truth of reality warrants us wrong then what good is our endeavors in finding the truth.

You quoted 

"Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science."

You say most people including me seems to claim to have it but never get around to presenting it.  

Sir this is the first post i have made and how can you assume you know me enough to say i am one of those people. 

Lets present this evidence before you. 

You do not know me !  This is evidence because it is a fact!

You have never met me! 

This is the first post from me!  So how can you say i never get to presenting my case with the evidence of me just beginning to explain this situation. 

And also you have put words there that are not what i intended to write in the sense you said i can only explain it to people that believe me. I never said believe sir . It is written except but i meant accept.  I said i will only explain it to people that can accept it because i know people as it seems just like you assume to know what they are talking about like they are experts in science and philosophical understandings. So i will no waste my time with people that assume they know what they are talking about and have no clue to what i am explaining or leading up to explain. You can not accept what i have said because lack of knowledge and false perceptions that have you in a fabrication of an illusion you can not see. Sir if you call your self an expert then may god help those that you teach. 

 

Golly, you had the time to write that all out. You could have at least TRIED to explain your idea instead.

 

13 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

You are quick to assume it is the way you have percieved in your logical presumptions. As if you have never been mistaken. The safest scientifically correct approach is to assume there is a possibility of what i am saying is exactly what it is and also to assume that it could not be as it is.

Quick to assume?! I'm waiting for evidence, and I've assumed NOTHING. I don't know what your claim is, so how could I assume anything about it? What is it you think you've said "exactly what it is"? That's the part I'm waiting for. 

17 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

You quoted 

"Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science."

You say most people including me seems to claim to have it but never get around to presenting it.  

Sir this is the first post i have made and how can you assume you know me enough to say i am one of those people. 

Lets present this evidence before you. 

You do not know me !  This is evidence because it is a fact!

You have never met me! 

This is the first post from me!  So how can you say i never get to presenting my case with the evidence of me just beginning to explain this situation. 

What we're looking for in a science discussion is a compelling argument, something to make us think you might be onto something. I rightly assume that if you had one, you'd make it RIGHT AWAY, right there in your opening post. Instead, you've got a lot of hand-waving and no substance, and excuses about why you can't support your idea right now. 

Kudos for not spelling truth with a capital T in the title, though.

24 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

And also you have put words there that are not what i intended to write in the sense you said i can only explain it to people that believe me. I never said believe sir . It is written except but i meant accept.  I said i will only explain it to people that can accept it because i know people as it seems just like you assume to know what they are talking about like they are experts in science and philosophical understandings. So i will no waste my time with people that assume they know what they are talking about and have no clue to what i am explaining or leading up to explain. You can not accept what i have said because lack of knowledge and false perceptions that have you in a fabrication of an illusion you can not see. Sir if you call your self an expert then may god help those that you teach. 

I COULD accept it if you explained it in a compelling, reasoned way. That's how science works. There are no answers, just theory, and theory is the most solid, trustworthy explanation you can get, constantly updated when new evidence compels us to improve our knowledge. So where is that evidence?

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17 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

Like i said i  was diagnosed schizo affective not  with schizophrenia

I don't doubt you. There are many conditions that cause auditory and other hallucinations. In most cases, people are convinced that what they see and hear are real because, obviously, they are real to them. 

19 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

if you had the time to sit and hold a conversation with me i will explain to you what i have gone through and am still going through and also sir you may question me with any questions you may have that arises in the moment.

It really doesn't sound very interesting. I have experienced some strange hallucinations but I would not expect anyone else to be interested. It would be about as boring and annoying as people who insist on telling you what they dreamt last night.

21 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

I do not seek nothing in return but only the progression of a more perfect understanding of reality through scientific endeavors.

But you are not talking about science. You are just talking about your own personal experiences. These have little relevance to anyone else or the wider world.

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Just now, zapatos said:

Now would be a good time to start presenting the evidence.

 I can only post up to five posts a day at the moment but the evidence i do have it is as i can describe it self experienced but it is experienced as i can say in relation to the experience of others.

So i said that i was hearing voices and that it changed into something as i can describe as a spirit. Now i also said this spirit guides me. Now please gentlemen do not assume me to be a common madman among the rest of society because before i went through what i have gone through i had no belief in a higher power at all.

Now as i can only state my experience to of what i go through daily and have gone through. Now i know you have not experienced what i am going through gentlemen so it will be hard for you to fully understand and i hope that i will be able to at least bring an awareness of what is occurring. My hope then is progression of mankind , but being as it is i will describe to the best of my ability  what i can explain as evidence.

Also it should be noted that the evidence i do have requires a bit more research on my part and i will gladly work on that for being that i am not working at the moment and there fore have time available.

Also my intention is not to convince any one to believe  what i say but to state the facts of my experience .

Firstly i will start off with the written work of Daniel Wegner in his book " the illusion of conscious will"

A little description of who he is :

Daniel Merton Wegner was an American social psychologist. He was a professor of psychology at Harvard University and a fellow of both the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences . 

 I only mention this because he presents cases that have occurred that have lead him to write a book as controversial as it may seem.  all i ask is please approach this with an opened mind i am not saying believe me but at least hear me out.

In this book Wegner describes the experiment done by a man named: Benjamin Libet and he was a pioneering scientist in the field of human consciousness. Libet was a researcher in the physiology department of the University of California, San Francisco.  For those that dont know the expirement i am describing i will gladly look it up real quick and paste a link . 

https://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/libet_experiments.html

 Well if you look at this experiment he concluded that he concluded that our mind was unconsciously making the choice for us.

now you say how can this be my evidence? Well it is the tip of the iceberg gentlemen and i will tell you how this fits in to my experiences. 

i will gladly post in a few hours in so due to the fact that i have to get a prescription from cvs and i am very hungry for pizza. Until then gentlemen.

10 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

First of, what are you trying to discuss? This is a discussion forum.
Secondly, as you stated and implied multiple times, some things can be illusions or seem one way but are another. It seems that you are not applying this to your spirit/voices. There are medical conditions which lead to such believes. How are you able to say that your voice is real an not an illusion played upon you by your mind? 

You also state 'I knew it was not your average case because of what i was experiencing'. How do you know? Why is it not probable that you are (for a lack of a better word) just affected by some disorder that brings about voices in your head. For a lot of people they seem real and acoustic or visual hallucinations/delusions seem real to a lot of people.

You must see the futility of going to a science forum, presenting a case of probable schizophrenia, then trying to convince us that because of what YOU experience(d), it is real?
If another person with delusions comes along, equally convinced that his/her's are real, would you accept their 'evidence' upon hearing this story? What if their 'spirit' contradicts yours? 

Also, this free will thing? Causality and quantum mechanics (in my opinion, and my opinion only (can't speak for others)) already takes away any type of effect you could have on what path your life takes. Is this physical explanation not satisfactory? If not, what 'evidence' makes you now come to this conclusion? 

 

Good sir you have mis interpreted my intended purpose of appeal while i was explaining this curious case with you.  Sir this is my first post here and i there is a reason i have said what i said. I am posting to a science forum because does not science obey only reality in its absolute form.  So please sir read more of the replies i will post and hopefully you will understand what i mean and why i am here.

Just now, Strange said:

I don't doubt you. There are many conditions that cause auditory and other hallucinations. In most cases, people are convinced that what they see and hear are real because, obviously, they are real to them. 

It really doesn't sound very interesting. I have experienced some strange hallucinations but I would not expect anyone else to be interested. It would be about as boring and annoying as people who insist on telling you what they dreamt last night.

But you are not talking about science. You are just talking about your own personal experiences. These have little relevance to anyone else or the wider world.

Hey sir science is based on facts and i will post more facts of expirements that lead me to explain why i am speaking my experiences. Please do not think i want to get you to believe me in any way for the sake of what is true hear me as i further explain from my posts what is going on. 

10 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

First of, what are you trying to discuss? This is a discussion forum.
Secondly, as you stated and implied multiple times, some things can be illusions or seem one way but are another. It seems that you are not applying this to your spirit/voices. There are medical conditions which lead to such believes. How are you able to say that your voice is real an not an illusion played upon you by your mind? 

You also state 'I knew it was not your average case because of what i was experiencing'. How do you know? Why is it not probable that you are (for a lack of a better word) just affected by some disorder that brings about voices in your head. For a lot of people they seem real and acoustic or visual hallucinations/delusions seem real to a lot of people.

You must see the futility of going to a science forum, presenting a case of probable schizophrenia, then trying to convince us that because of what YOU experience(d), it is real?
If another person with delusions comes along, equally convinced that his/her's are real, would you accept their 'evidence' upon hearing this story? What if their 'spirit' contradicts yours? 

Also, this free will thing? Causality and quantum mechanics (in my opinion, and my opinion only (can't speak for others)) already takes away any type of effect you could have on what path your life takes. Is this physical explanation not satisfactory? If not, what 'evidence' makes you now come to this conclusion? 

 

You stated " You must see the futility of going to a science forum, presenting a case of probable schizophrenia,"

Sir i posted in the religion section of this science forum and if you will further read the posts i have posted here, you will see why. At least i hope you will understand what i am talking about.  Please do not believe me in fact i encourage it but at least hear me out completely before you assume that you know what i am saying.  I am not gonna say what i experience is normal because i i know it is not and sir i also stated that i was labeled schizo affective not schizophrenic but please before you assume to know what is going on in my situation please hear me completely out .

Just now, Strange said:

I don't doubt you. There are many conditions that cause auditory and other hallucinations. In most cases, people are convinced that what they see and hear are real because, obviously, they are real to them. 

It really doesn't sound very interesting. I have experienced some strange hallucinations but I would not expect anyone else to be interested. It would be about as boring and annoying as people who insist on telling you what they dreamt last night.

But you are not talking about science. You are just talking about your own personal experiences. These have little relevance to anyone else or the wider world.

What is the essence of science but presenting facts with experimental evidence and this is what i am trying to do. 

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30 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

I can only post up to five posts a day at the moment but the evidence i do have it is as i can describe it self experienced but it is experienced as i can say in relation to the experience of others.

That is not evidence in the scientific sense because it cannot be objectively measured or verified.

30 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

So i said that i was hearing voices and that it changed into something as i can describe as a spirit. Now i also said this spirit guides me. Now please gentlemen do not assume me to be a common madman among the rest of society because before i went through what i have gone through i had no belief in a higher power at all.

No one has suggested you are a madman, nor has any reason to do so.

Many people experience hallucinations without being "mad" (however you choose to define that).

Many people experience spirits without being mad.

32 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

Well if you look at this experiment he concluded that he concluded that our mind was unconsciously making the choice for us.

Our mind is us. So we are making the choice for ourselves. (I don't believe this says anything about free will one way or the other.)

 

 

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Just now, Strange said:

That is not evidence in the scientific sense because it cannot be objectively measured or verified.

No one has suggested you are a madman, nor has any reason to do so.

Many people experience hallucinations without being "mad" (however you choose to define that).

Many people experience spirits without being mad.

Our mind is us. So we are making the choice for ourselves. (I don't believe this says anything about free will one way or the other.)

 

 

Sad to say we do not make the choice for ourselves. Lets try a mind experiment. If you can freely choose any city in the world to go to think of it and write it down. Now understand the process that takes place we are not conscious of every city we know at that moment  instead we are presented with a few cities that come into the conscious point of our minds. Now think of every city you have every been to and read about or even heard of. These cities are put in to the memory of our brains and in the moment of coming up with a city we want to go to we are not presented with a list like a database in our conscious minds of every city our minds know about and then we can not go down this list one by one and decide which city we want to go to. Did you think of the city Bangkok? Or Tokyo? These cities were not probably brought to the conscious part of your brain even though you probably know about them. 

So simply put if you can not access all the cities you ever know at any moment and selectively choose one by one as like from a database how then can you assume the other processes in your mind are truly chosen by you when in fact our mind does and has been doing thing we do not choose.

Another experiment say while in traffic another vehicle deliberately cut you off. 

In that moment do you tell your mind i will become mad and then become mad. No good sir you simply EXPERIENCE what ever your unconscious mind makes you feel in that moment. And there is many more things you may not be able to agree with and that being obviously not your consciously made choice.

Edited by oddprophet
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10 minutes ago, oddprophet said:

Sad to say we do not make the choice for ourselves.

But you just said we do: you said (and the experiments show) that our mind makes the decisions.

But that has nothing to do with free will. (And I am not going to start debating free will. I ... just ... can't.)

 

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44 minutes ago, zapatos said:

When do you think you will get around to presenting the evidence?

...how do you want to get objective evidences of someone hearing voices in the brain.. ? MRI scan during he or she hears voices.. ? Unexpected activity of brain will be evidence? Or lack of activity will be evidence (while somebody will claim, that he or she hears in the same moment some voices talking to him or her).. ?

 

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1 hour ago, oddprophet said:

Lets try a mind experiment.

"Experiment" has a more precise definition in science, and what you call a "mind experiment" doesn't fit. What you're doing is stringing some things you've experienced together with some things you've read (but perhaps not fully understood? easy to do these days), and then filling in the gaps with stuff you made up. It can't help but make perfect sense to you. 

 

1 hour ago, oddprophet said:

Another experiment say while in traffic another vehicle deliberately cut you off. 

In that moment do you tell your mind i will become mad and then become mad. No good sir you simply EXPERIENCE what ever your unconscious mind makes you feel in that moment. 

Except... I'm perfectly capable of deciding that, today at least, it's not worth getting angry about. I did this just yesterday. I told my mind not to get mad and I became calm.

Two days before that, I ranted at someone being selfish about merging. It wasn't me they cut off, so I really had no reason to be angry, but it felt good to let that out.

Experiments need consistent results. 

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2 hours ago, Sensei said:

...how do you want to get objective evidences of someone hearing voices in the brain.. ? MRI scan during he or she hears voices.. ? Unexpected activity of brain will be evidence? Or lack of activity will be evidence (while somebody will claim, that he or she hears in the same moment some voices talking to him or her).. ?

 

I have no idea how he intends to present his evidence.

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It's a good thing I don't come to the Religion forum very often.
An awful lot of garbage gets posted here.

Oddprophet must  be lacking a life, and friends, as he just seems to want 'empty' conversation.
He's written half a book already, but still hasn't gotten round to presenting his 'insight'.

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1 hour ago, zapatos said:

I have no idea how he intends to present his evidence.

(Advice for everybody hearing voices and seeing halucinations)

My proposition is... just in case it is somebody a bad joke simply start recording video during hearing voices or seeing halucinations on your smartphone... Then you can verify whether halucinations are still there on taken by you pictures.. 

Halucinations-fakes-jokes will very quickly disappear if people involved in making them will notice that you are making photos..

 

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7 hours ago, MigL said:

It's a good thing I don't come to the Religion forum very often.
An awful lot of garbage gets posted here.

Oddprophet must  be lacking a life, and friends, as he just seems to want 'empty' conversation.
He's written half a book already, but 

MigL i bet you feel like a empowered egotistical male when you are writing assumptions and slandering an individual who could be suffering from a disorder for all you know. It doesn't matter what you think or say.  You do not know the weight of the situation in all of its entirety. In fact you sir are as sick as they come with lack of compassion and virtue and the understanding of the inner working of the minds. So as it may be to you garbage, or something you can bat at like a cat at outoff curiosity and  play and there is no desire for seriousness for your lack of knowledge. In fact you knew it all the time there is no evidence. In fact sir this is a joke haha thanks for laughing and your mockery. May life give you its fullest blessings gentlemen.

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First you propose your 'mental affliction' has resulted in 'enlightenment'.
Now you're hiding behind this 'affliction'; when called out on it, you accuse me of lacking compassion/virtue/understanding, for pointing out that you're just seeking attention.

And you still haven't presented your ideas...

( you seem to be going out of your way to prove me right )

Edited by MigL
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21 hours ago, oddprophet said:

This is the first post from me!  So how can you say i never get to presenting my case with the evidence of me just beginning to explain this situation. 

Gently pointing out that this is what I was talking about. You're about to start a second page of this thread, and you're talking about everything EXCEPT your supportive evidence. I wasn't trying to dismiss you or ridicule you. I was predicting your behavior based on evidence I've observed.

On 3/6/2020 at 8:10 AM, Phi for All said:

Historically, we've found that if a person actually has supportive evidence for their extraordinary claims, they lead with it. It would be in your OP because it would be startling enough to make people think you were on to something.

Most people, including you it seems, just claim to have it but never get around to presenting it. If you can only persuade people who have to start out believing you, you aren't doing science.

 

 

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There was a time when I was sleeping and all of a sudden I dreamt of being inside of a large field and a giant light in the sky came to me and tried to speak with me without words. Only communicating using a "feeling." I would guess what it was and it would only "appear" to be more and more angry. It was only when I called it "God" that a large trumpet began to play. It was like I was not being "told" what to do, but instead guided. After waking up I thought back on it and it made me realize two things; that I was indoctrinated too much when I was a child to the delusion of a "God" and that I should probably try and watch what I eat before I go to sleep. Your mind is a VERY powerful thing, which tries to recognize patterns and attempts to make itself more "important" than everything else in the universe. It is not, we have more efficient tools which remove the personal bias in which the brain attempts to create. One of these is called science. True "enlightenment" is not knowing that you are absolutely "right." It is knowing that you are filled with biases and trying to mitigate those biases in order to develop the correct truths to better both yourself and those within your environment.

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