# I appear to be on the way out the door .....

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1 minute ago, coffeesippin said:

Absolutely .. I need to rest .. to go to sleep.  But why is Dr. P's post out of line?  That's another clear example of why the forum needs better moderation .. 'it is out of line because ...'  'This is what you said that was against the rules ...."   'This is how you went OT .....'   Nothing like that though .. just SLAM down the hammer and discourage the discussion.   Topics on God you see as proselytizing instead of asking for discussion.  I open a topic on the Bible Revelation and how science today proves it .. it gets closed.  If someone opened a topic on how science proves a grapefruit has vitamin C it would remain open.   I gotta go.   Believe in God.  Time IS short.  If I'm gone from here I'm gone.  Will see you in heaven.

No, it was out of line because of the insulting language used towards people who chose to believe in God. I don't think it's fair to say that people who are religious are deluded and lying to themselves. However, as I said to DrP, I am participating in this thread and therefore not moderating it so my comment to him was not as staff, but as a member. If I were acting in my capacity as staff, my response to him would have been in the form of a green note.

Please understand that this is a science discussion forum, not a religious one. As such, we chose to operate from the perspective that the existence of God has no evidence to support it, and that the question itself is not scientific. If we did not pick a vantage point from which to operate and base our rules, it would be chaotic. It is not to say we don't accept discussion on religion - we do. We just ask that discussion be objective and that quoting religious texts be accompanied with some rationale that isn't simply rooted in the broad notion of "God is real." Failure to comply with this amounts to preaching, and this is where you are running into trouble.

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3 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

I was NOT preaching in that thread and you can NOT show me where I was.  I present SCIENCE in that thread from a very qualified scientist.

"God is love. 1 John 4:7     Its logical that God MUST be love to bless mankind so abundantly despite mankinds nasty greed that mankind has survived countless wars of greed, especially with the weapons available to mankind. "

No, I don't see any science there.

Quote

Bans and suspensions are often handed out by whoever happens to be online once a consensus is reached among the staff. Unless you are a spammer, or post porn or a tirade of some sort, we wait until other staff members have weighed in before taking such action. Being suspended or banned means that multiple moderators have agreed that you have broken rules to the point where such action is warranted.

It's not personal.

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18 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Absolutely .. I need to rest .. to go to sleep.

H.A.L.T

Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. . .Never make decisions/comments in any one of these conditions.

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43 minutes ago, DrP said:

OK HI - Can you report it to another mod then please as I can't see the problem with it. I am happy for you to explain it to me though here if you wish.  Out of line - how so?

It's off-topic for this discussion, for one thing. The is coffeesippin's thread, and it's about clarifying how and when he has crossed the line, and (I hope) about how he can avoid doing so in the future.

Then there is the issue of pontificating about the existence of a supreme being.

2 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

Obey the rules?  That topic was about God, Strange.  I didn't open it.  I just joined it.  Someone said define God.  I said God is Love.  Someone said define Love.  I tried that not using scripture .. 'Love leads to life.'   Prompters from complaints by members .. BeeCee, the wayward child, someone's pet, following me around pushing the report button and the 'down' count button at every post.   Other people here saw the BeeCee thing, what a shame to have such a case on a forum.  But all things work for our good.

"Define God" needed to be interpreted in the context pf the thread. It's not an excuse to go off in a different direction.

As far as "the BeeCee thing" goes, you really need to drop your fixation, and also your "teacher hates me" attitude. Contributions to your reputation have come from a wide variety of sources.

It's not helpful for anyone to take the position that all problems are due to outside influences, and none from themselves. A person needs to determine what they are doing that might be contributing, or nothing ever gets fixed. Nothing improves.

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10 minutes ago, swansont said:

It's off-topic for this discussion, for one thing. The is coffeesippin's thread, and it's about clarifying how and when he has crossed the line, and (I hope) about how he can avoid doing so in the future.

It was a natural progression of the conversation that the OP started....  if what I said was off topic then the whole thread is.  - She pm'd me - it was about the assumed insult of me using the word deluded to describe a believer of the bible as a factual document - nothing about being off topic. I am not sure what other word to use - how do you describe someone who chooses to believe something that goes against the reality that is before them?  Deluded. I used to believe it too...  I personally don't think that makes me stupid -  I was certainly deluded though....  it isn't an insult, just a fact.  I will try not to use the word again in the future although I think using these kind of kid glove to protect people's feelings is why we don't discuss important things....  and why we end up with things like brexit and Trump.  I've said it before - if you can't discuss these thing for fear of upsetting people then they don't get discussed and people stay deluded.

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1 minute ago, DrP said:

It was a natural progression of the conversation that the OP started....  if what I said was off topic then the whole thread is.  - She pm'd me - it was about the assumed insult of me using the word deluded to describe a believer of the bible as a factual document - nothing about being off topic. I am not sure what other word to use - how do you describe someone who chooses to believe something that goes against the reality that is before them?  Deluded. I used to believe it too...  I personally don't think that makes me stupid -  I was certainly deluded though....  it isn't an insult, just a fact.  I will try not to use the word again in the future although I think using these kind of kid glove to protect people's feelings is why we don't discuss important things....  and why we end up with things like brexit and Trump.  I've said it before - if you can't discuss these thing for fear of upsetting people then they don't get discussed and people stay deluded.

You weren't responding to the thread originator, though, so it's not a natural progression of the thread, and the OP's discussion wasn't in the direction of anyone's opinion of belief in a deity.

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55 minutes ago, swansont said:

You weren't responding to the thread originator, though, so it's not a natural progression of the thread, and the OP's discussion wasn't in the direction of anyone's opinion of belief in a deity.

The thread very quickly went onto the topic of their faiths...  it was a natural progression of the topic because he was in trouble for preaching. Whatever - I wont argue with you about it I'll pull out of the conversation if you want me out of it.  I don't understand the decision though - it's poor imo.

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5 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

Not now Strange.  I didn't ask for this, it was put on me.  Now Valent has it, and you have it.  YOU show me the preaching in the post about biological life after death.  It was ALL science from a Scientist, except the little introduction which was to answer a question posed in that topic CAN SCIENCE PROVE GOD?

She did say that it was also about posts prior to that one as well.

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2 hours ago, DrP said:

Does it have to?

I think it does really. If reality doesn't make sense to you, then surely that has to be a sign of madness!

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3 hours ago, DrP said:

Except that different Christians sometimes interpret the same verses in different ways.  Why would god let that happen if he was real?

Some scientists interpret the same data in different ways. Why would science let that happen?

In the Christian religion, according to the general consensus, God gave them a choice to do right or wrong, etc. Another question you could ask which would have just as much merit would be "Why didn't god just make a race of people who wanted to do nothing but worship him?" It basically ignores the very foundation of what the religion is, and pretends the religion doesn't have any possible explanation for that.

7 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

I'm very, very sorry that Valent has a need to slash out in anger at the mention of God.

I've participated in many discussions with the mention of God. I personally believe in God and I haven't gotten in trouble a single time in regards to being a Christian, mentioning scripture, etc.

"There is a time and place for everything under the heavens." (Ecclesiastes 3:1)

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16 minutes ago, Strange said:

I think it does really. If reality doesn't make sense to you, then surely that has to be a sign of madness!

It makes sense in the way that I've got my head around it to a point...   but no -one knows what happened before BB or how Abiogenesis was triggered for example  -  there are many explanations and speculations but no-one knows at all what happened before that, what was there and for how long....  I don't think we ever will (not in our life times anyway)...  so I guess it DOES make sense...  I just have to claim unknowns. In that sense then maybe I was wrong  -  it DOES make sense - thanks for the correction and making me think about it.  It makes sense entirely that I do not and will not know the how or why we came about.  - But does that matter? was my point I suppose. Some who believe the bible seem to fear not knowing if they concede that their book is not accurate - because without the book they have absolutely nothing, the book is the sole basis of and the reason for their faith... if that is wrong then then what do they have left? I am past being scared of not knowing. It doesn't matter that we do not know everything - it's understandable.

...   although on further thought it is off topic according to Swans, so I don't think I'll participate further   -- shame - I quite like talking to coffeesipin and the others of faith about their beliefs and would like to discuss it more, but don't feel I am allowed to now in this thread.

15 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Some scientists interpret the same data in different ways. Why would science let that happen?

Because science doesn't claim and nor do scientists that science is an all knowing omnipresent being with the super power to interact and change whatever it wants. It isn't the same at all. It hasn't got any sentience to care what happens let alone do anything - it isn't a being....   the god of the bible is supposed to be in charge of the universe and everything  -  if that was true then why wouldn't he care if his message to the world was understood or not? It would be simple to appear and let the world know what the right way was.  Again - we are off topic though - this thread is for discussing coffespin's soon departure and any natural progression of that discussion because of why he thinks this is now off topic apparently according to swans....  so I think I better just find a different site to participate on for the rest of the day...  (or get on with my work before I get fired).

TTFN.

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7 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

I have never insulted or threatened her or any mod here, or any member.

Really? I was very insulted by your comment about hypervalent_iodine's mental status, insisting she was lashing out at you because someone kicked sand at her as a child. That's a horrible thing for anyone to say, much less someone who purports to be a good Christian. Do you demean everyone psychologically who doesn't agree with you? It's clear you want everyone to be flawed.

That said, the real reason it's been hyper dealing out the punishment is because the rest of the staff is always busy being involved in your threads. The amount of Reported Posts, misinformation that needs to be corrected, and frustration with poor reasoning associated with your threads is very large. Hyper is often the only staff member who can officially respond, since our policy is to avoid moderating threads we're involved in.

Your paranoia is truly breathtaking. You've become a caricature of a blindfolded crusader with cotton in his ears who insists there's monsters everywhere.

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2 hours ago, swansont said:

It's off-topic for this discussion, for one thing. The is coffeesippin's thread, and it's about clarifying how and when he has crossed the line, and (I hope) about how he can avoid doing so in the future.

Then there is the issue of pontificating about the existence of a supreme being.

"Define God" needed to be interpreted in the context pf the thread. It's not an excuse to go off in a different direction.

As far as "the BeeCee thing" goes, you really need to drop your fixation, and also your "teacher hates me" attitude. Contributions to your reputation have come from a wide variety of sources.

It's not helpful for anyone to take the position that all problems are due to outside influences, and none from themselves. A person needs to determine what they are doing that might be contributing, or nothing ever gets fixed. Nothing improves.

Here it is morning, and nothing changes .. BeeCee's faults are my fixation even though I've had him on ignore to ignore him .. it's not Mods fault .. it's not Iodine's fault .. everyone is faultless on the 'we have the button' side .. everyone is faulted on the non button side.  In the present condition this forum is a typical internet forum with a facade of open mindedness because there is a facade of talking about God, but only under the dictates of the button.    Who IS BeeCee and what is his relationship to Iodine or mods?  Can we have an answer to tha

Why does he get away with lewdness, insults, accusations, lies, luring.  You say contributions to my reputation come from a wide variety of sources but you sure won't be able to show examples.   Your whole post, Swan, is another example of why you have 45% of all suspensions/bans out of eight mods.   Like Iodine, a personal playground for sadism.

4 minutes ago, DrP said:

It makes sense in the way that I've got my head around it to a point...   but no -one knows what happened before BB or how Abiogenesis was triggered for example  -  there are many explanations and speculations but no-one knows at all what happened before that, what was there and for how long....  I don't think we ever will (not in our life times anyway)...  so I guess it DOES make sense...  I just have to claim unknowns. In that sense then maybe I was wrong  -  it DOES make sense - thanks for the correction and making me think about it.  It makes sense entirely that I do not and will not know the how or why we came about.  - But does that matter? was my point I suppose. Some who believe the bible seem to fear not knowing if they concede that their book is not accurate - because without the book they have absolutely nothing, the book is the sole basis of and the reason for their faith... if that is wrong then then what do they have left? I am past being scared of not knowing. It doesn't matter that we do not know everything - it's understandable.

...   although on further thought it is off topic according to Swans, so I don't think I'll participate further   -- shame - I quite like talking to coffeesipin and the others of faith about their beliefs and would like to discuss it more, but don't feel I am allowed to now in this thread.

Because science doesn't claim and nor do scientists that science is an all knowing omnipresent being with the super power to interact and change whatever it wants. It isn't the same at all. It hasn't got any sentience to care what happens let alone do anything - it isn't a being....   the god of the bible is supposed to be in charge of the universe and everything  -  if that was true then why wouldn't he care if his message to the world was understood or not? It would be simple to appear and let the world know what the right way was.  Again - we are off topic though - this thread is for discussing coffespin's soon departure and any natural progression of that discussion because of why he thinks this is now off topic apparently according to swans....  so I think I better just find a different site to participate on for the rest of the day...  (or get on with my work before I get fired).

TTFN.

God is not doing the interpretation, mankind does that when the bible says it is NOT to be interpreted, but believed.  We who know the KJV is true and accurate can only know that by the Holy Ghost, so we have more than the bible, we have the Spirit.  God DID appear and let the world know the right way, but he was crucified and a murderer/insurrectionist was set free.

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12 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Who IS BeeCee and what is his relationship to Iodine or mods?  Can we have an answer to tha

I'm right here. I'm also Iodine. I'm also the mods. And, Luke... I am your father.

Everyone here wishes you well. Everyone here also wishes you'd just stop.

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7 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Who IS BeeCee and what is his relationship to Iodine or mods

"He's just this guy, you know" (Hitchhiker's Guide reference).

He is in Australia, according to his profile. I assume his username is based on his initials. He has no relationship as far as I know to any of the mods. He is (I think he has said) a little younger than you - I cannot remember now if he is older or younger than me. Maybe a year or two older, I think.

(This is all based on information disclosed on the forum; not anything visible only to moderators.)

11 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Why does he get away with lewdness, insults, accusations, lies, luring.

Either because he doesn't get reported (or noticed by a mod) or because the reports have no substance. He has had no formal warnings but he has been the target of modnotes in threads that have got heated.

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14 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Here it is morning, and nothing changes .. BeeCee's faults are my fixation even though I've had him on ignore to ignore him .. it's not Mods fault .. it's not Iodine's fault .. everyone is faultless on the 'we have the button' side .. everyone is faulted on the non button side.  In the present condition this forum is a typical internet forum with a facade of open mindedness because there is a facade of talking about God, but only under the dictates of the button.    Who IS BeeCee and what is his relationship to Iodine or mods?  Can we have an answer to tha

The topic is irrelevant. There is no "relationship"

If you have him on "ignore" then why bring this up at all? (Unless you need there to be a conspiracy so that this is not your fault. We're all sockpuppets and out to get you)

14 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Why does he get away with lewdness, insults, accusations, lies, luring.  You say contributions to my reputation come from a wide variety of sources but you sure won't be able to show examples.   Your whole post, Swan, is another example of why you have 45% of all suspensions/bans out of eight mods.   Like Iodine, a personal playground for sadism.

Projecting how you might behave, and what your motivation would be, if you were a moderator isn't going to get you anywhere. It's why certain people would never be asked to be moderators. Guessing at other people's motivations is a losing game. A cop pulling you over to give you a speeding ticket does not do so because of sadism. It's because you were speeding.

I have a lot of bans partly because I've been here a long time.

14 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

God is not doing the interpretation, mankind does that when the bible says it is NOT to be interpreted, but believed.  We who know the KJV is true and accurate can only know that by the Holy Ghost, so we have more than the bible, we have the Spirit.  God DID appear and let the world know the right way, but he was crucified and a murderer/insurrectionist was set free.

Completely irrelevant to the discussion, and just more preaching on your part. This is why you're in trouble. You apparently just can't not bring this into a discussion.

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9 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Really? I was very insulted by your comment about hypervalent_iodine's mental status, insisting she was lashing out at you because someone kicked sand at her as a child. That's a horrible thing for anyone to say, much less someone who purports to be a good Christian. Do you demean everyone psychologically who doesn't agree with you? It's clear you want everyone to be flawed.

That said, the real reason it's been hyper dealing out the punishment is because the rest of the staff is always busy being involved in your threads. The amount of Reported Posts, misinformation that needs to be corrected, and frustration with poor reasoning associated with your threads is very large. Hyper is often the only staff member who can officially respond, since our policy is to avoid moderating threads we're involved in.

Your paranoia is truly breathtaking. You've become a caricature of a blindfolded crusader with cotton in his ears who insists there's monsters everywhere.

I never insulted Iodine I explained a reason for her behaviour, and it's very common, and accounts for bad behaviour among many women who have the least authority over men.

Everyone on earth IS flawed.  I never said Iodine deals most correction (punishment is your word but indicates an wrong direction recognized even by most penal institutions) I said Swanson deals 45% of suspensions/bans out among 8 mods.  With BeeCee complaining about every post I make it's no wonder there are so many reports.

You mods had been typical internet forum monsters (poor reasoning associated with my threads baloney that's a normal mod reaction to a difference of opinion on any subject) but you had begun to act much more fairly .. then Iodine stepped into the breach because, I think, she became aware that maybe she needed to change, especially with the BeeCee thing, but she wasn't willing to accept that because this is HER show and NO one's going to tell her how to run it.   However, she opened herself to discussion rather than just permanently banning me, which I was surprised at.

My reactions are a DIRECT result of what has been monstrous oppression on this site, and what prevents more participants from telling you mods about it is the power you have with the button, but I've heard from them.  Talk about reputations.

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3 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

I never insulted Iodine I explained a reason for her behaviour, and it's very common, and accounts for bad behaviour among many women who have the least authority over men.

1. You didn't "explain", you invented.

2. This sentence is appalling. If you can't see how insulting it is you need to reconsider your attitudes. (Take some time off for meditation and prayer.)

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11 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

I never insulted Iodine I explained a reason for her behaviour, and it's very common, and accounts for bad behaviour among many women who have the least authority over men.

"I never insulted her except that time I explained why she behaves the way she does because she's a she" is insulting.

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Everyone on earth IS flawed.  I never said Iodine deals most correction (punishment is your word but indicates an wrong direction recognized even by most penal institutions) I said Swanson deals 45% of suspensions/bans out among 8 mods.  With BeeCee complaining about every post I make it's no wonder there are so many reports.

You have no idea who reports you and downvotes you, but you fixate on one member, and blame him.

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You mods had been typical internet forum monsters (poor reasoning associated with my threads baloney that's a normal mod reaction to a difference of opinion on any subject) but you had begun to act much more fairly .. then Iodine stepped into the breach because, I think, she became aware that maybe she needed to change, especially with the BeeCee thing, but she wasn't willing to accept that because this is HER show and NO one's going to tell her how to run it.   However, she opened herself to discussion rather than just permanently banning me, which I was surprised at.

Doesn't surprise me. We had a discussion and the decision was to give you a chance to improve your track record of following the rules. You have failed, thus far, to do so. Even after two suspensions. You've been given more chances than a lot of rule-breakers.

If you are banned, it will be because multiple moderators have decided that enough is enough.

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My reactions are a DIRECT result of what has been monstrous oppression on this site, and what prevents more participants from telling you mods about it is the power you have with the button, but I've heard from them.  Talk about reputations.

If you have been treated so unfairly, why do you keep coming back?

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9 minutes ago, iNow said:

I'm right here. I'm also Iodine. I'm also the mods. And, Luke... I am your father.

Everyone here wishes you well. Everyone here also wishes you'd just stop.

Stop what?  Responding to the same accusations and abuse?   Why not stop the accusations and abuse instead?   Luke?  If your Luke was the gospel writer you'd be far less combative, but you worship the violence of Star Wars rather than desire the peace of the bright and morning star.  Well, you have your violence on earth, and if you read the Revelation you'll see a lot more coming from the Euphrates River, Syria, Iran, Iraq, crude oil, fire, smoke, brimstone  "HAHAHAHAHA Where could the Brimstone come from?" people laughed before the nuclear bomb?   "HAHAHAHAHA One third of earth's population killed in one hour!" they laughed before the hydrogen bomb."

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

1. You didn't "explain", you invented.

2. This sentence is appalling. If you can't see how insulting it is you need to reconsider your attitudes. (Take some time off for meditation and prayer.)

Who's preaching now, Strange?   If I had said at any time on this forum I'd get the severest criticism and ALL the mods and Iodine would agree that I was Off Topic Out of Place Out of my Mind and Deluded for believing in prayer and God.  But it was nice to see.

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8 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

I never insulted Iodine I explained a reason for her behaviour, and it's very common, and accounts for bad behaviour among many women who have the least authority over men.

Misogyny is a horrible poison. I'm sorry your life is filled with such pettiness and hatred. It shouldn't happen to anyone, and affects so many around you, but it's worse when it's self-inflicted.

I don't mean to get too personal, but I've always thought negative behavior was a magnet for negative thoughts. I hope you aren't attracting the bad to yourself with your attitude.

I hope you can find some forgiveness in your religion. I feel really sorry for you, and I wish you well even though you were invited in to our home and decided to be THAT kind of guest. Merry Christmas.

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3 hours ago, DrP said:

It was a natural progression of the conversation that the OP started....  if what I said was off topic then the whole thread is.  - She pm'd me - it was about the assumed insult of me using the word deluded to describe a believer of the bible as a factual document - nothing about being off topic. I am not sure what other word to use - how do you describe someone who chooses to believe something that goes against the reality that is before them?  Deluded. I used to believe it too...  I personally don't think that makes me stupid -  I was certainly deluded though....  it isn't an insult, just a fact.  I will try not to use the word again in the future although I think using these kind of kid glove to protect people's feelings is why we don't discuss important things....  and why we end up with things like brexit and Trump.  I've said it before - if you can't discuss these thing for fear of upsetting people then they don't get discussed and people stay deluded.

I don't mind the word 'deluded' P.  The bible uses it to describe what can happen to those who turn away from God's direction.  2 Timothy 2:11 "God shall send them strong delusions."   A very interesting scripture.

One of those delusions is that of ten thousand and one books in a bookstore 10,000 are correct but the  one bible is wrong.

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5 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

ALL the mods and Iodine would agree that I was Off Topic Out of Place Out of my Mind and Deluded for believing in prayer and God

I think it was only me that said you (and the other guy) were deluded for believing the bible in light of the world of evidence against it.... It wasn't the mods.  It wasn't meant as an insult, I was in the same boat myself for many years.  Even when ALL the evidence pointed against what I believed - I still CHOSE to believe it....  I was deluded. It is just a word that defines such a state of mind.

Just now, coffeesippin said:

of those delusions is that of ten thousand and one books in a bookstore 10,000 are correct but the  one bible is wrong

No - MOST of them are fiction (depends on the bookshop)  -  no-one is saying that because the bible is fiction then all other books are or are not fiction.... each gets it's own assessment individually.

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5 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

I don't mind the word 'deluded' P.  The bible uses it to describe what can happen to those who turn away from God's direction.  2 Timothy 2:11 "God shall send them strong delusions."   A very interesting scripture.

One of those delusions is that of ten thousand and one books in a bookstore 10,000 are correct but the  one bible is wrong.

3

bye...

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2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Misogyny is a horrible poison. I'm sorry your life is filled with such pettiness and hatred. It shouldn't happen to anyone, and affects so many around you, but it's worse when it's self-inflicted.

I don't mean to get too personal, but I've always thought negative behavior was a magnet for negative thoughts. I hope you aren't attracting the bad to yourself with your attitude.

I hope you can find some forgiveness in your religion. I feel really sorry for you, and I wish you well even though you were invited in to our home and decided to be THAT kind of guest. Merry Christmas.

Sadism is even worse, Phi.  Sadism inflicts pain.  Misogyny is just an attitude.  Funny that my three daughters and three granddaughters haven't recognized my hatred for all women everywhere, Phi, even with their educations.

Negative behaviour?   Einstein said Jesus was 'luminous .. no one can read the gospels without feeling his presence.'  I posted that with the url, somewhere.  Maybe that's when the bad stuff hit the fan last night.  EINSTEIN HIMSELF saying that about a man who was crucified.  Was it his negative behaviour that was a magnet for his crucifixion?  And no, I don't have a Messiah complex, I can hear that one grinding rustily away in a few brains.  Rustilly .. not rustically.

Forgiveness?  Let's not forget, "Rebuke the unfruitful works of darkness."  That's in there too.  If free discussion were allowed on religion and the bible .. ah .. what a Christmas gift that would be.

Thanks for the Merry Christmas.  Same to you and yours.

6 minutes ago, DrP said:

I think it was only me that said you (and the other guy) were deluded for believing the bible in light of the world of evidence against it.... It wasn't the mods.  It wasn't meant as an insult, I was in the same boat myself for many years.  Even when ALL the evidence pointed against what I believed - I still CHOSE to believe it....  I was deluded. It is just a word that defines such a state of mind.

No - MOST of them are fiction (depends on the bookshop)  -  no-one is saying that because the bible is fiction then all other books are or are not fiction.... each gets it's own assessment individually.

You're good at what you do, I'll give you that.  If free discussion were allowed on the site you could present your evidence of the bible's error and I could correct your errors.

You still CHOOSE to believe something that all the evidence points against?  That's cause to re-examine what you think is evidence against it.

Didn't I identify those 10,000 books as non-fiction.  I apologize.  The novels and comic books are down the street.  But even there you'll find comic books about Jesus.