Air Between The Notes Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 ....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. That being the case, is there any sense in discussions of belief in a Creator or the alternative of nothing + lots of time ='s everything. If not Supernaturally drawn to Him one won't see that science does nothing but prove His existence or the other side of the coin, there is no need of breaking away from the popular stream of conscience as chance is the queen of science with no room for the chance of a Creator. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I don't see how science "proves" a creator's existence. Science doesn't "prove" anything. It weighs the evidence in a carefully controlled methodology designed to minimize subjectivity, and shows us which explanation has the preponderance and is therefore most aligned with reality. By siding with the most likely explanations, science doesn't have to claim there's no room for a creator, just that one isn't necessary. The stance on god(s) is that we have no evidence for or against. The god(s) that insists on being unobservable actually preclude the use of science in the first place. All natural things are observable in some fashion, and science is interested in natural things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) ....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. That being the case, is there any sense in discussions of belief in a Creator or the alternative of nothing + lots of time ='s everything. If not Supernaturally drawn to Him one won't see that science does nothing but prove His existence or the other side of the coin, there is no need of breaking away from the popular stream of conscience as chance is the queen of science with no room for the chance of a Creator. What do you think? Science evolves and science is not science if it can't change. If they find evidence for a God then that will find it's place in the 'world of science'. In a sense, science is not about proving things, 100% proof does not exist in science. You can only 'prove' a (scientific) theory because you can't disprove it. That's why atheism is the lack of the belief in deities and not knowledge concerning the non existence of deities. Agnosticism points to the absence of knowledge. Edited January 31, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) ....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. The babel fish argument seems appropriate. "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. Edited January 31, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 ....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. That being the case, is there any sense in discussions of belief in a Creator or the alternative of nothing + lots of time ='s everything. If not Supernaturally drawn to Him one won't see that science does nothing but prove His existence or the other side of the coin, there is no need of breaking away from the popular stream of conscience as chance is the queen of science with no room for the chance of a Creator. What do you think? Why would you give any credence to what the bible says... as opposed to any other god mythologies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 What do you think? I think you're a person who has tricked themselves into thinking they can argue against something they don't understand, armed with something they only think they understand. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Between The Notes Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Remember now, you can't even believe unless He allows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Remember now, you can't even believe unless He allows it. He doesn't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Between The Notes Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 How about accept Him as Sovereign, a though thing for those of us in the new world as we don't see being under someone's right to reign over us in this new free land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 How about accept Him as Sovereign, a though thing for those of us in the new world as we don't see being under someone's right to reign over us in this new free land. I have no problems with professions of faith, and expressions of hope. These things often provide comfort and a feeling of centeredness some can't find any other way. But for some of us who find these things in the natural world, your willingness to actually mold your life, change the way you live, and make major decisions based on Iron Age superstitions that have no observable manifestations in reality seems ridiculous in the extreme. It's why we worry someone like you or Sarah Palin could get codes to nuclear missiles and decide that it's Armageddon time, and you might kill us all because you thought your god(s) wanted you to. Your faith scares rational people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Which God? Odin? Zeus? Ra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Between The Notes Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 We are to be conduits for Perfect Love to shine through into a dark world lighting it & not ever sitting waiting with a finger poised over a button, there seems to be some misunderstanding in ideology here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 We are to be conduits for Perfect Love to shine through into a dark world lighting it & not ever sitting waiting with a finger poised over a button, there seems to be some misunderstanding in ideology here. Please take a look at your responses, both here in this thread, and in most of the threads you're involved with. Notice how they rarely address the points the other people in this discussion bring up? Notice how you just keep standing on your soapbox, shouting out what you believe, no matter what anyone else is saying? That's what we call preaching here. It tells us you have no intention of learning from anyone here, but rather have come to push your flavor of the 9000 different versions of Christianity and nothing will stop you. It's not what we do here, it's not discussion, and it's just irritating as hell because you try so hard to use science, a thing you barely understand, to argue about something nobody can understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Between The Notes Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 ...or we could all have a tendency to twist science into a religion justifying an outcome the way we want it to appear to us individually so we can worship it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 ...or we could all have a tendency to twist science into a religion justifying an outcome the way we want it to appear to us individually so we can worship it? Or, really or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Between The Notes Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 ...or we could all have a tendency to twist science into a religion justifying an outcome the way we want it to appear to us individually so we can worship it? I do not worship science or anything else. Science is repeatable to predictable, no faith or belief is necessary or allowed. If you can't show it then you don't know it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 How about accept Him as Sovereign, a though thing for those of us in the new world as we don't see being under someone's right to reign over us in this new free land. How about you accept that He's a fairy story - a crutch for those who can't cope with reality. Cut to the chase- what evidence do you think you have that He exists? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragaster Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 We are sum total of the Universe, God included. About God : If we consider the Universe a big machine, then according to laws of mechanics, there cannot be a self-perpetuating machine. A machine cannot create itself. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 If we consider the Universe a big machine, then according to laws of mechanics, there cannot be a self-perpetuating machine. A machine cannot create itself. And if we consider the Universe a big cookie, then according to the laws of baking, there cannot be a self-cooking cookie. A cookie cannot bake itself. But guess what? The universe is not a MF cookie! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 ....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. And as he/she/it can't be bothered to do that, why should I care about him/her/it. What do you think? Insipid drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Strange has a good point Air... It doesn't matter what the bible says as it is full of errors and provable falsehoods, so why should we selectively believe bits of it that support your argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Strange has a good point Air... It doesn't matter what the bible says as it is full of errors and provable falsehoods, so why should we selectively believe bits of it that support your argument? You shouldn't and you should; just because her argument is wrong doesn't mean there is no argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) How about accept Him as Sovereign, a though thing for those of us in the new world as we don't see being under someone's right to reign over us in this new free land. Prove a god is real and I will consider him as sovereign, do you really submit to something that has no evidence of it's existence? You may as well worship the invisible dragon I keep in my garage. Note to other members, has this person become our pet troll or is she subject to the same rules we all are? So far she has yet to answer a question in any way but quoting an ancient book of mythology which in it's self is not evidence but a claim that requires evidence. I honestly would like to talk to this person about the question but she must give us more than empty platitudes and bible quotes. I have asked her direct questions and i get ignored or given empty platitudes that make no sense in the reality of the world... Edited February 2, 2017 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Note to other members, has this person become our pet troll or is she subject to the same rules we all are? So far she has yet to answer a question in any way but quoting an ancient book of mythology which in it's self is not evidence but a claim that requires evidence. I honestly would like to talk to this person about the question but she must give us more than empty platitudes and bible quotes. I have asked her direct questions and i get ignored or given empty platitudes that make no sense in the reality of the world... It's traditional: Religion claims to answer the Big Questions- but, in fact, it can't even answer the little ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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