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Flooding the planet


Mender
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If the biblical account of Noah’s flood happened and it rained for long enough would the weight of water on the land surfaces cause the land to “sink” thereby pushing out hot magma into the oceans creating more rain as the oceans heat up eventually reaching a tipping point and covering all the land?

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Hi timo

as the rain is a constant somewhere and with global weather changes occurring more and more it could be just the melting of the icecaps that cause more and more rain ... it’s the science behind the idea of weight displacing the ground and causing the water table to rise that I was questioning

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20 minutes ago, Mender said:

Hi timo

as the rain is a constant somewhere and with global weather changes occurring more and more it could be just the melting of the icecaps that cause more and more rain ... it’s the science behind the idea of weight displacing the ground and causing the water table to rise that I was questioning

Timo is correct, (+1) to ask where the water would come from.

There is not enough water on the planet, even if all the ice melted and all the atmospheric water fell out of the sky, to cover the entire surface.

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1 hour ago, Mender said:

Hi timo

as the rain is a constant somewhere and with global weather changes occurring more and more it could be just the melting of the icecaps that cause more and more rain ... it’s the science behind the idea of weight displacing the ground and causing the water table to rise that I was questioning

It does that because the water is frozen, with no where to go; if anything the land will rise up when the water slides off...

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I have read that all of our water was delivered here by comets and the whole earth was once covered in water ... evidence of aquatic creatures now fossilised  in the centre of high rock formations would confirm this ... I know that the tectonic plate shifts has changed heights of land masses and 3/4 of the planet is covered in water now ... some of which is very deep ... so what is all that land “floating” on?

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16 minutes ago, Mender said:

the whole earth was once covered in water .

I am not aware of this, could you supply a citation?

16 minutes ago, Mender said:

evidence of aquatic creatures now fossilised  in the centre of high rock formations would confirm this .

No that is evidence that an ancient ocean basin was uplifted due to plate tectonics.

Edited by Bufofrog
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9 minutes ago, Mender said:

I have read that all of our water was delivered here by comets and the whole earth was once covered in water ... evidence of aquatic creatures now fossilised  in the centre of high rock formations would confirm this .

Wherever the water originally came from, fossils of marine life in the Himalayas etc are not evidence of total submergence, just of earth movements.

11 minutes ago, Mender said:

I know that the tectonic plate shifts has changed heights of land masses and 3/4 of the planet is covered in water now ... some of which is very deep ... so what is all that land “floating” on?

The "land" as you call it ie dry land is technically called continental crust.
There are two types of crust, continental crust and oceanic crust (which is the sea bed rock at the bottom of the sea)

The oceanic crust is densier ('heavier') and the continental  crust is lighter so 'floats' on top.
It has been piled up by successive earth movements to heights that would not be all submerged by all the water on Earth.
A simple test would be to estimate the rise in sea level if all the water from ice and the air were to be dumped on the ground.
This would be less than 100 metres, yet there are mountain ranges many thousands of metres high.
Clearly these would not be submerged.

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Noahs flood has been proposed as ancient memories of the Zanclean flood, of 5 million years ago, that flooded the Mediterranean basin.
I find it hard to believe that our ancestors of 5 million years ago ( Australopythecus, I believe ), could preserve such 'memories' through story-telling, since Homo Sapiens only emerged ( in Africa ) about 300 000 years ago.

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More likely is the fact that most ancient human civilizations existed near major sources of water and all of those water sources will have flooded at some point... so the stories of flood are extremely common in mythology and oral histories. 

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!

Moderator Note

Moved from philosophy (which this isn’t). Note that we are discussing science here, not myth. IOW, it’s why the flood story is contrary to physical law, and/or the real origin of the myth.

 
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4 hours ago, MigL said:

Noahs flood has been proposed as ancient memories of the Zanclean flood, of 5 million years ago, that flooded the Mediterranean basin.
I find it hard to believe that our ancestors of 5 million years ago ( Australopythecus, I believe ), could preserve such 'memories' through story-telling, since Homo Sapiens only emerged ( in Africa ) about 300 000 years ago.

I also think the bandwidth to transfer the satellite images that show the whole earth being flooded was very limited back then 📧.

 

On topic, in case it wasn't clear by now: Since all the water for flooding already is on earth, and already pushes as weight on the ground (including the ice), you should expect no significant effect on the stability of the ground when it rains. Also, as studiot said, if all ice melted, the water would not cover all of the land. Here's the first Google hit I found regarding this: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/rising-seas-ice-melt-new-shoreline-maps (seeing the maps it is kind of funny that Australia is one of the few coal power fans in the world).

Edited by timo
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11 hours ago, Mender said:

If the biblical account of Noah’s flood happened and it rained for long enough would the weight of water on the land surfaces cause the land to “sink” thereby pushing out hot magma into the oceans creating more rain as the oceans heat up eventually reaching a tipping point and covering all the land?

My understanding of the Noah's flood is that water raised everywhere (not only over land) so you would have pressure increase also on the ocean floor. When I read the Bible, I didn't notice that the water was stacked only over the land - did I miss this delightful detail?

4 hours ago, MigL said:

Noahs flood has been proposed as ancient memories of the Zanclean flood, of 5 million years ago, that flooded the Mediterranean basin.
I find it hard to believe that our ancestors of 5 million years ago ( Australopythecus, I believe ), could preserve such 'memories' through story-telling, since Homo Sapiens only emerged ( in Africa ) about 300 000 years ago.

Right. It would really make me angry if anybody seriously suggested ancient memories from 5 million years ago - as some SFN members say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Black Sea flood seems as more realistic inspiration for the Noah's flood, imo. Although, I would say, more probably the inspiration came from many flooding events (tsunami included).

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Hi guys 

sorry I missed a few of these messages so am I only adding comments now

if the bible is to be evidenced then in Genesis ch 1 it states that the spirit hovered above the waters and 

 there was nothing until verse 6 when the firmament was created and divided the waters and land came into existence

however I wasn’t going to use this account to answer the question as it makes it too easy and science can neither confirm or deny this account although many have tried and failed to refute a single fact in the bible I’m interested in current science and the contention that as the seas rise and lands start to flood would the weight of water on these lands add to the sinking of places across the planet and the water locked up in permafrost melting also continue this process until a tipping point is reached causing large areas of currently dry land to be submerged?

 

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Well migl I was merely replying to the post by danijel gorupec about the bible and you may have read my message wasn’t about discussing the bible at all but if you want to ... how about the concept of a “design” behind the universe that is gathering pace within prominent scientific thought and this obviously points to a “designer”

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3 minutes ago, Mender said:

how about the concept of a “design” behind the universe that is gathering pace within prominent scientific thought and this obviously points to a “designer”

Why?

Who designed a termite mound?

 

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13 minutes ago, Mender said:

how about the concept of a “design” behind the universe that is gathering pace within prominent scientific thought and this obviously points to a “designer”

 

Just because you would like it to be true doesn't validate this statement.

In fact quite the reverse situation is true.

The peak of scientific effort being directed towards revealing details of a 'designer' occurred between 100 and 300 years ago and has been declining ever since.

Today it is probably at an all time low point.

 

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The discovery institute has a range of studies on the design of the universe being no accident,and as science discovers more and more it raises serious questions about the theories of the origin of life which everyone agrees are theories rather than fact ... the Bible contains thousands of facts which a large amount of are geographical facts and a lot of hygiene truths and concepts that have only been proved to be good practice in the last century ... it bears examination which is why I’m opening the dialogue with you guys as you are a scientific community

Termite mounds are like all communal structures ... it’s written into the dna of the creators 

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12 minutes ago, Mender said:

The discovery institute has a range of studies on the design of the universe being no acciden

Perhaps so, but that does not invalidate my point.
I expect there will always be a residual few who wish to cling to unsupported belief systems.

 

Please answer my point directly. Particularly as you say you wish to discuss , and that is the purpose of this webforum.

The perhaps we can address some of your other claims, particularly those highly selective ones about the contents of the Bible.

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23 minutes ago, Mender said:

The discovery institute has a range of studies on the design of the universe being no accident,and as science discovers more and more it raises serious questions about the theories of the origin of life which everyone agrees are theories rather than fact ...

There are no accidents... It's no accident that a termite mound favour's a termite...

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Why do you call them unsupported belief systems when in 2020 over 54% of the worlds population are either Christian or Islamic believers and only 19% are atheists 

And of course termite mounds aren’t accidental .. as I say they have a very specific construction design

And as for discussing the bible  which of my claims would you like to discuss?

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