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Mars colony of 500,000 people may not be possible

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15 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

 

It would be an adventure visiting another world. That could be reason enough. We likely won't terraform it. Be a long term project, possibly destroying existing buildings.

I think a mix of tourism and money for research will be big early on. Enogh to get basic trade going and infrastructure built.

Destroying existing buildings?

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Mars is crap anyway. We should go to Venus instead. It's closer, there's more energy (solar), there's gravity and we'd all get to live in cool airships. 

Edited by Curious layman

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21 hours ago, Mordred said:

Assuming we had the technology to actually move 500,000 ppl to Mars it is quite reasonable that the colony can use the same ships to mine the asteroid field which would be closer than it is to Earth 

With the lower gravity one would save on fuel costs.

 Ice could very well be one of those resources mined 

This is a good point. Main issue I see with the poles is their temperature/latitudes and possibly treacherous summer conditions as dry ice sublimates. Alternative sources could definitely be useful.

7 hours ago, Moreno said:

Destroying existing buildings?

Post colonization. Ravines and former ocean bottoms offer some of the best colonization and mining sites. Imagine flood waters coming in lol.

41 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Mars is crap anyway. We should go to Venus instead. It's closer, there's more energy (solar), there's gravity and we'd all get to live in cool airships. 

Surface conditions would make mining a pain.

Edited by Endy0816

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8 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

Surface conditions would make mining a pain.

Or a way to get trade going on Mars! Your Mars colony can mine Minerals and stuff for my Venus colony.

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No humans can't live on Mars for the same reason that humans can't live in Antarctica, in the Sahara desert or in the bottom of the ocean.

The problem is that Mars is a hostile physical environment.

1. For starters, there is no food.

2. In the night it would get to -128 Degrees Celsius.

3. The atmosphere is 0.14% oxygen compared to earth it is really low.

4. There is a chemical called Perchlorate which is highly toxic to humans.

5. It gets high amount of radiation.

6. Mars is a barren desert with huge sandstorms and these sandstorms can destroy electronic equipment likes computers.

7. Mars has a microgravity which is not good for astronauts bones and to the brain.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, seriously disabled said:

I made no inaccuracies in my post and you are still just a troll.

Humans can't live in the Sahara desert?

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Just now, dimreepr said:

Humans can't live in the Sahara desert?

Yes we can but it's an extremely difficult environment because there is no water there, the temperature are very high and because there's no water nothing of value grows there.

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1 minute ago, seriously disabled said:

Yes we can but it's an extremely difficult environment because there is no water there, the temperature are very high and because there's no water nothing of value grows there.

So, an inaccuracy.

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!

Moderator Note

Off-topic posts have been removed. 

 

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10 hours ago, seriously disabled said:

No humans can't live on Mars for the same reason that humans can't live in Antarctica, in the Sahara desert or in the bottom of the ocean.

The problem is that Mars is a hostile physical environment.

1. For starters, there is no food.

2. In the night it would get to -128 Degrees Celsius.

3. The atmosphere is 0.14% oxygen compared to earth it is really low.

4. There is a chemical called Perchlorate which is highly toxic to humans.

5. It gets high amount of radiation.

6. Mars is a barren desert with huge sandstorms and these sandstorms can destroy electronic equipment likes computers.

7. Mars has a microgravity which is not good for astronauts bones and to the brain.

 

We'd be living like we might onboard a submarine, space ship or space station.

You can grow food indoors, produce Oxygen from the CO2, live underground to avoid radiation and if necessary use a centrifuge to counteract any ill effects of low gravity. Nothing totally outlandish.

We may need to make some modifications to ourselves for some things. Could save large amounts of money and resources, but not sure how people will feel about that. To an extent you would be superhuman of necessity.

 

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22 hours ago, seriously disabled said:

No humans can't live on Mars for the same reason that humans can't live in Antarctica, in the Sahara desert or in the bottom of the ocean.

The problem is that Mars is a hostile physical environment.

1. For starters, there is no food.

2. In the night it would get to -128 Degrees Celsius.

3. The atmosphere is 0.14% oxygen compared to earth it is really low.

4. There is a chemical called Perchlorate which is highly toxic to humans.

5. It gets high amount of radiation.

6. Mars is a barren desert with huge sandstorms and these sandstorms can destroy electronic equipment likes computers.

7. Mars has a microgravity which is not good for astronauts bones and to the brain.

 

!

Moderator Note

Owing to childish sniping I had to hide posts that also had some content in rebuttal to this post, so perhaps one could stipulate that there is disagreement here. To wit:

1. Humans have lived in the Sahara, Antarctica and the bottom of the ocean.

2. Most or all of the seven items are incorrect or irrelevant in one way or another.

 

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On 7/13/2019 at 8:48 AM, seriously disabled said:

7. Mars has a microgravity which is not good for astronauts bones and to the brain.

Mars has a bit over 1/3 the surface gravity as the Earth. We have no information as to whether that is too little for the long term health of humans, as we have only been able to study the effects of actual microgravity conditions.  

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Both Mars and Venus are equally unsuitable for terraforming because there is almost no hydrogen (in any form) on them. And without hydrogen there is no oceans and thus terraforming cannot be complete. If you will say we can bring an oceans of hydrogen from Jupiter or Saturn, I will say it is total sci-fi.

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53 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Both Mars and Venus are equally unsuitable for terraforming because there is almost no hydrogen (in any form) on them. And without hydrogen there is no oceans and thus terraforming cannot be complete. If you will say we can bring an oceans of hydrogen from Jupiter or Saturn, I will say it is total sci-fi.

There's many reasons why terraforming Mars is a challenge, a lack of hydrogen isn't one of them.

 

Quote

 

The Martian environment presents several terraforming challenges to overcome and the extent of terraforming may be limited by certain key environmental factors. Here is a list of some of the ways in which Mars differs from Earth, which terraforming seeks to address:

  • Reduced light levels (about 59% of Earth) [11]
  • Low surface gravity (38% of Earth)
  • Toxic atmosphere
  • Atmospheric pressure about 100 times lower than Earth (well below the Armstrong limit)
  • Ionizing solar and cosmic radiation at the surface [12]
  • Average temperature −63 °C (210 K; −81 °F) compared to Earth average of 14 °C (287 K; 57 °F))[13]
  • Molecular instability - bonds between atoms break down in critical molecules such as organic compounds
  • No liquid water
  • Global dust storms
  • No natural food source
  • Toxic soil[14][15]
  • No global magnetic field to shield against the solar wind

 

  •  

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On 6/15/2019 at 10:26 PM, nec209 said:
  • doctors and surgeons
  • nurses
  • dentist
  • construction workers
  • maintenance workers
  • office workers
  • factory workers
  • electrician
  • plumper
  • engineer of all types of fields buildings, bridges, electrical so on
  • water and road workers
  • drug companies
  • people skilled in biology
  • people skinned in chemistry
  • people skilled in physics
  • people skilled in computers and technology
  • teachers
  • professors
  • cop
  • firefighter
  • EMT
  • court system
  • government system
  • transportation system on land and air
  • stores and shops every where
  • goods and supplies
  • other skilled people and blue collar workers
  • office workers
  • factory workers
  • industry
  • Engineering supplies and Medical supplies
  • farmers

This reminds me of the old joke about the boy who says he can't go to school because he's too busy.

You know the one...

There are 356 days in the year.

That leaves 

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On 6/15/2019 at 10:26 PM, nec209 said:
  • doctors and surgeons
  • nurses
  • dentist
  • construction workers
  • maintenance workers
  • office workers
  • factory workers
  • electrician
  • plumper
  • engineer of all types of fields buildings, bridges, electrical so on
  • water and road workers
  • drug companies
  • people skilled in biology
  • people skinned in chemistry
  • people skilled in physics
  • people skilled in computers and technology
  • teachers
  • professors
  • cop
  • firefighter
  • EMT
  • court system
  • government system
  • transportation system on land and air
  • stores and shops every where
  • goods and supplies
  • other skilled people and blue collar workers
  • office workers
  • factory workers
  • industry
  • Engineering supplies and Medical supplies
  • farmers

This reminds me of the old joke about the boy who says he can't go to school because he's too busy.

You know the one...

There are 356 days in the year. But 104 of them are at weekends and there's no school then

That leaves 365- 104 i.e. 252 days

And I'm asleep for 8 hrs a day so that's a third of the time which is another 122 days.

That only leaves 130 days.

And so on...

It adds up to an unreasonable total.

And the reason it's silly is that he's double counting. It doesn't take account of the fact that you sleep at weekends etc.

 

And the OP here is so enthusiastic about his point that he's overlooked all the double counting.

For a start he's got factory workers and office workers on the list twice. (items 6,7 and 28,29 if I counted right)

And then there's the fact that "office workers" and "factory workers" are typically in one or more of tehotehr groups.

e.g.maintenance workers, other skilled people and blue collar workers, maintenance workers and so on are likely to be factory workers.

 

 

Edited by John Cuthber

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What would be temperatures on Venus if it would be completely Eath-like?

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3 minutes ago, Moreno said:

What would be temperatures on Venus if it would be completely Eath-like?

If it was completely Earth like, it would have completely Earth like temperatures.

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People who think Mars is a great place to colonise should spend a year in Antarctica, Mars is far less hospitable, much harder to get to, and out of range of any possible timely help... Antarctica is a paradise compared to Mars but you don't see lines forming to homestead Antarctica... 

13 minutes ago, Moreno said:

What would be temperatures on Venus if it would be completely Earth-like?

Earth at the orbit of Venus would be somewhat warmer, probably too warm to maintain Earth like conditions. Venus receives twice as much energy from the sun as the earth does and it is thought that oceans would begin to evaporate and a runaway greenhouse would ensue. As recently, according to some sources, as 2 billion years ago Venus might have had earth like conditions even with oceans and life but the sun is steadily getting warmer and will eventually do to the Earth what it did to Venus. 
 

8 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

If it was completely Earth like, it would have completely Earth like temperatures.

For a while... 

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