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Mike Smith Cosmos

Producing a hierarchy of human life .

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I believe in the context that I am presenting this thread , the definition is fairly loose due to the nature of the issue!  Namely looking for evidence of beings above human . However I am saying that if some form of behaviour , can be seen to exist, with evidence. Then this would indeed represent some form of Heirachy. 

So to that end , I  considering the three levels to be ( not all creatures ) but specifically :- 

Spirit Beings 

Human Beings

Gold Fish Beings

ONLY

Taking one of the major attributes, of this PARTICULAR  Defined HEIRACHY. 

I am currently considering the desire and activity of CROWDING. 

Clearly as previously proved with evidence  GOLDFISH  can be seen to CROWD. 

Also HUMANS notoriously crowd. 

This current desire to communicate via the internet, is a current evidence of CROWD. 

So evidence CROWDING  from the Spirit realm would / should establish the HEIRACHY. . 

If that is proven , if only loosely , further investigation WOULD produce insight into the activity and nature of SPIRIT BEINGS. 

If only a start ! 

Mike

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Evidence for crowding by goldfish ::::::::::: :::::::::::: previously given 

Evidence for crowding by Humans :::::::::: :::::::::::: previously given ( partly ) 

Evidence for crowding by Spirit realm :::::: ::::::::::: some , but more ( to follow ) 

==================================================

PS . THIS -2 DOWN VOTING IS QUITE REDICULOUS , THIS IS TURNING THIS FORUM INTO A ANCIENT ROMAN COLLOSIUM PUTTING HUMANS IN THE LIONS DEN . HOW STUPID IS THAT?

REMINISSENT OF BULLYING 

==================================================

mike 

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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DrP,

I do realize this is a science forum.  I give everybody, layman or initiated, the benefit of the doubt, initially, and try their ideas against what I know to be true about the world.  I don't know everything, but neither does anyone know everything.  There are serendipitous events that have happened in my life and I am guessing yours.  Many folks have one or two stories about a religious experience, or a time someone came out of nowhere to save them and then moved on to where it would seem out of place that they should haveh rendered such assistance, or seen some UFO or felt there was karma or something going on, elves preparing some situation in a beneficial arrangement, or perhaps evidence that a lost loved one was sending a message or watching out for you, or have some evidence of ESP or somebody acting in a way that would suggest they had knowledge that was not gained in the normal scientific way of gaining knowledge.   Such is why I humor Mike.  Well not really humor, because I am not looking at it like he is a fool,  I am taking him with the same respect and understanding as I take any honest man or woman.   I humor people that speculate there are other civilizations in the Milky Way, based on probability, even though they have zero evidence, and the speed of light puts the lives of these others way out of our reach.

I personally have memory of seeing a ghost, of seeing a UFO, of talking to the clouds and having rain soon follow, of seeing a mathematical message possibly sent my my departed mathematician mother, which allows me to "humor" people that have seen a ghost, or an unexplained visitor, or believes in garden fairies, or serendipity, or ESP, or reincarnation, or God or angels.   Most of the world believes in one or more of the previous types of things.  And regardless of what I believe is possible or real, and what I pretty much know is construct, I know for certain that the other 7 billion folks on the planet and the billions that lived previously are actual real components of objective reality, and no matter what they think or know or believe, they are humans on the planet Earth, in exactly the same situation as I am in, and though it is important for me to be right, about what is real and what is construct,  there is not a consensus on the things I know to be true and know to be false, so I would speculate that this same state of openness to other people being right or wrong, is a common trait.  A good trait, a human trait.   

Such is why I ran the experiment with Mike, years ago that yielded that rock I pictured.  I did it to disprove the theory, and talked with Mike about the results, and did not jump to the conclusion that there were gods or angels, but allowed that the world was not separate from us, and we use it to think.  I was left with the thought that maybe there was an  area of reality orthogonal to this one.    I do not know what that means, but I am open to investigating what that might mean, if it does not devolve into a flight of fancy.

Regards, TAR

 

Edited by tar

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"PS . THIS -2 DOWN VOTING IS QUITE REDICULOUS , THIS IS TURNING THIS FORUM INTO A ANCIENT ROMAN COLLOSIUM PUTTING HUMANS IN THE LIONS DEN . HOW STUPID IS THAT?"

Maybe it's your ludicrously bad spelling that annoys whoever it is (can't possibly be the endless reams of drivel - or the seemingly total lack of listening skills).

Edited by Manticore

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19 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

 PS . THIS -2 DOWN VOTING IS QUITE REDICULOUS , THIS IS TURNING THIS FORUM INTO A ANCIENT ROMAN COLLOSIUM PUTTING HUMANS IN THE LIONS DEN . HOW STUPID IS THAT?

REMINISSENT OF BULLYING 

You post, and people get to criticize. Calling disapproval "bullying" is an insult to people who actually get bullied. 

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Surely , there must be somebody out there in the science community , that harbours an inner feeling and desire for " some intelligence , or rather an intelligent race other than human , out there in the vast universe ? 

Surely , I am not alone in this futuristic , truth seeking , desire for a bit more , peace and love , intelligence , beyond what we see all over the world . This , hate, carnage , killing , bullying , etc 

 

mike 

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1 minute ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

Surely , I am not alone in this futuristic , truth seeking , desire for a bit more , peace and love , intelligence , beyond what we see all over the world . This , hate, carnage , killing , bullying , etc 

 

Of course not...  but in searching for the truth...  why entertain the absurd?

I was a Christian for a long time. I understand how easy it is to believe such clap trap. I understand the desire to see the world improve (which it has SO SO SO much over centuries)..  to share and spread love and forgiveness, to love your neighbour and harder still your enemy. I even have/had a close personal relationship with the holy ghost. So what?  it doesn't make god real because we want it to be. It is what it is and it isn't god. We have discussed at length on here how the human psyke invents the supernatural to make himself feel better and to protect himself from the unknown....  we have grown beyond that. Lie to yourself if wish, tell your self you are going somewhere else when you pass on if that is what you are worried about...  just don't expect any support for your fantasy here on a science site because it is clearly rubbish.  We ALL get the sense of numinous about the amazing things in the universe - that isn't god, it is just you being humble enough to see that the world is bigger than you and you are insignificant compared to the size of the universe.

 

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15 hours ago, tar said:

Area54,

So I guess you are that higher intelligence/lifeform that is looking out for Mike.

Hierarchy proved.

Regards, TAR

That is a neat way to avoid an apology tar. Or to avoid acknowledging that criticism of ideas is one of the functions of this forum. If you object to persistent criticism of your ideas the fault may lie with your ideas, rather than the persons making the criticism. And, for the record, that downvote did not come from me.

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On ‎19‎-‎6‎-‎2017 at 11:18 PM, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

I find myself studying the goldfish in my pool , and seeing how I stack up in the hirarcy of living things .

In my immediate hirarcy , I am clearly ' Up Here ' and they are quite content to be ' down there'

 

I feed them , battle off the foes like frogs . Feed them , count them , clean their water, plant water plants, reeds .

We have a good relation.

 

What I wonder is what if I think about the other way ?

 

What is next above me , looking down ?

 

Mike

Birds are above you, looking down!

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Area54,

I apologize for using the term "someone like Area54" and implying you downvoted when you did not.   My comment was still valid in the general sense, that I was trying to explain to mike why I have stayed off threads he is on.  Not that I don't look at them, but that when I do respond, both Mike and I wind up getting down votes, and it is annoying.   Like perhaps people get more defensive or something when the two of us get together on an idea.  Better usually to stand apart, and not have each of our individual weaknesses lumped together and attacked as one.

Regards, TAR

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Birds are above you, looking down!

That is true physically , and I must say they have a good capability , up there !

But I am sure you mean this ' Tongue in cheek .' 

it is this. HEIRACHY thing that I mean by ' up ' , namely the next rung up the. HEIRACHY , namely some form of ' Advanced Being ' or / and more to the point,

' Advanced Beings ' as this is certainly something that comes out of this study :- Namely " that CROWDING SEEMS TO INCREASE IN INTENSITY , THE FURTHER UP THE HEIRACHY ONE GOES "  

Here we are practically living with our I pads , I phones, computers across the globe , that's before we even look at the physical crowding we get at venues, or the mass crowding into countries, followings , regions of the world , etc 

So , if I am correct the next layer up in the HEIRACHY will be even more intense CROWDING !  Crowding that will make the World Wide Web look silly . Who knows ? But it really is worth investigation , scrutiny , and an OPEN MIND . 

Mike 

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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All I can do is apologise for my spelling . I have had this all my 70 year odd life . Spell checkers catch most of it , but not allways. I only get a mental alert , when it does not look right ! ( so unless a spell checker does not alert me , I am stumped! ) 

blanket sorry ! 

Mike 

the only compensation I am able to offer is a vision into the Next HEIRACHY up . 

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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6 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

the only compensation I am able to offer is a vision into the Next HEIRACHY up . 

That's better! If you are going to make a mistake, then make two mistakes in the same word! :)

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DrKrettin,

Good point, hierarchy instead of heirachy.

Mike,

I have not yet, still, read the last 10 pages of the thread, so I may be questioning an inappropriate aspect of the thought, but two things come to mind.   One, crowding as in ant colonies and the like, usually result in a new entity emerging.   Like our governments or the internet, or universities, a bunch of fish get together and you have a school, or birds, a flock, and the V in the sky is not individual geese, but something else.  In this, in terms of hierarchy there is a bigger and better and more advanced or complete entity formed during the crowding.

Not supernatural. 

And secondly, if crowding is more prevalent as you go up the hierarchy why do you end up with God, in the singular?  Wouldn't it be more likely that a bevy of Angels would occur?

Regards, TAR

 

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27 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

That is true physically , and I must say they have a good capability , up there !

But I am sure you mean this ' Tongue in cheek .' 

it is this. HEIRACHY thing that I mean by ' up ' , namely the next rung up the. HEIRACHY , namely some form of ' Advanced Being ' or / and more to the point,

' Advanced Beings ' as this is certainly something that comes out of this study :- Namely " that CROWDING SEEMS TO INCREASE IN INTENSITY , THE FURTHER UP THE HEIRACHY ONE GOES "  

Here we are practically living with our I pads , I phones, computers across the globe , that's before we even look at the physical crowding we get at venues, or the mass crowding into countries, followings , regions of the world , etc 

So , if I am correct the next layer up in the HEIRACHY will be even more intense CROWDING !  Crowding that will make the World Wide Web look silly . Who knows ? But it really is worth investigation , scrutiny , and an OPEN MIND . 

Mike 

So, when are you going to get off your ass and investigate it. I've alreasy pointed out that two or three days of internet research would enable you to provide a semi-quantitative and convincing qualitative assessment of your hypothesis. Instead you keep recycling your unfounded assertions and moaning about negative rep. Why aren't you doing the research?

Hint: my very quick review has suggested your hypothesis will be disproven. The ball is in your ballpark.

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6 minutes ago, tar said:

DrKrettin,

Good point, hierarchy instead of heirachy.

Mike,

I have not yet, still, read the last 10 pages of the thread, so I may be questioning an inappropriate aspect of the thought, but two things come to mind.   One, crowding as in ant colonies and the like, usually result in a new entity emerging.   Like our governments or the internet, or universities, a bunch of fish get together and you have a school, or birds, a flock, and the V in the sky is not individual geese, but something else.  In this, in terms of hierarchy there is a bigger and better and more advanced or complete entity formed during the crowding.

Not supernatural. 

And secondly, if crowding is more prevalent as you go up the hierarchy why do you end up with God, in the singular?  Wouldn't it be more likely that a bevy of Angels would occur?

Regards, TAR

 

Well nobody has given any idea as to what God looks like . I think he/she/it is in every single Higgs boson across the entire Universe , in other words totally unrecognisable in any way we can think of it , other than the whole thing , the whole universe . 

As for your bevy of Angels , 

this is what is listed under images Angels 

image.jpeg.d7ea131beecc4f312d63ca7a6f8e2c82.jpeg

mike 

 

I appreciate your thought about getting on with the research , that is what I have been doing for the last 25 years . I am not so sure I am going to find what I am looking for in a huge electronic dictionary . As that is the consensus of a majority of people who do not believe much in supernatural phenomenon . That's why I have tried to do the research myself on this very important subject , first hand . I admit like everybody else , turns to  Wikipedia for a lot of information . It was just on this one , at it is so important , I would go at it first hand . 

Like  I stood on a rock in the middle of the abandoned moor , one wet day . Turned my head to the sky , and asked ?  

IS THERE ANYBODY THERE ?  .?? 

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Mike,

And we have a spatial aspect to consider.  That is there is usually just one queen of the hive.  That is it takes a bunch of subcomponents to make one entity.  And then a bunch of those entities make up the next higher entity .  quarks, neutrons, nuclei, atoms, molecules,  compounds,  DNA,  cellular components, cells, structures, organs, organisms, hives, ecosystems, planets, solar systems, galaxies, local group, local cluster, super clusters...  it would seem unlikely that there would be a crowd of galaxies within your fish pond.  That is, how many angels can you fit on the head of pin?  It seems that only a certain number of entities on the next level up from here, could fit over the pond.

Regards, TAR

That is, of all the angels that there are, only a certain number would be local angels, if the pattern were to hold.  Certain angels would be our angels and certain angels would be somebody else's.

Mike,

In 26 years in my former company,  I only once had a long conversation with the president of the company, once in a airport waiting area.  And that was just the president of the Americas division of the company.  My usual dealings were with my section chief and his or her boss. I sometimes smoked with a vice president...but the point is I  never had the ear of the president of the U.S. or the head of the World Bank.   That is, how much personal attention do you expect from how many entities, how far up the hierarchy?

Regards, TAR

That is, our angel could be a big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a huge ocean.

37 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

Well nobody has given any idea as to what God looks like . I think he/she/it is in every single Higgs boson across the entire Universe , in other words totally unrecognisable in any way we can think of it , other than the whole thing , the whole universe . 

As for your bevy of Angels , 

this is what is listed under images Angels 

t

mike 

 

I appreciate your thought about getting on with the research , that is what I have been doing for the last 25 years . I am not so sure I am going to find what I am looking for in a huge electronic dictionary . As that is the consensus of a majority of people who do not believe much in supernatural phenomenon . That's why I have tried to do the research myself on this very important subject , first hand . I admit like everybody else , turns to  Wikipedia for a lot of information . It was just on this one , at it is so important , I would go at it first hand . 

Like  I stood on a rock in the middle of the abandoned moor , one wet day . Turned my head to the sky , and asked ?  

IS THERE ANYBODY THERE ?  .?? 

Mike,

Similar to my story about thinking about having a poster to ask god publically for something unlikely to happen so everyone could together see the request fulfilled...as I was shoveling six inches of snow off my driveway in Oct.   I turned my head to the sky and said "funny guy. Funny"   There is no reason to think whatever happen was not coincidence...or any reason to think that the universe was not proving a point to me.

I do not have the courage to run another test.  Not  because I am afraid that people will think I am crazy, but because I am not prepared for another success.   On that day we ran the test, after I saw the rock, I went down to the feed store for some dog food, and noticed for the first time, the street address was 90.   On the way back up the mountain I glanced to my left on a small street, just once, up a driveway, and saw the street address 90 on a house I had never noticed before.  Made me go back up to the woods and check out the site.  That is when I saw two trees crossed in a 90 degree fashion near the site where I asked the question, and the rock was still there.  I later studied pictures I had taken that showed the trees were crossed before I asked the question...but still the whole collection of happenings, were interestingly pertinent to 90 degrees, which was especially persuasive to me, that somehow the universe was answering my orthogonal question.

So not running another test, is mostly because it is more satisfying to me, that I ran the test and got a positive response, and I would rather just remember that win, than to risk a loss.   But in addition, I do not know what to think of another win.   Sort of scary to consider the universe so responsive.  Like the two times I accepted a penny to talk to the clouds on my way out and two times in a few days a long drought in the place I left got tremendous rain.  I am satisfied to consider I earned my two cents, and since one time resulted in a hurricane and the other tremendous mud slides and floods, I decided since I could not control the results, I would stay out of the rain making business, and retire, two for two.   In terms of the orthogonal question, I am satisfied to retire 1 for 1.

Regards, TAR

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1 hour ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

Well nobody has given any idea as to what God looks like . I think he/she/it is in every single Higgs boson across the entire Universe , in other words totally unrecognisable in any way we can think of it , other than the whole thing , the whole universe . 

As for your bevy of Angels , 

this is what is listed under images Angels 

t

mike 

 

I appreciate your thought about getting on with the research , that is what I have been doing for the last 25 years . I am not so sure I am going to find what I am looking for in a huge electronic dictionary . As that is the consensus of a majority of people who do not believe much in supernatural phenomenon . That's why I have tried to do the research myself on this very important subject , first hand . I admit like everybody else , turns to  Wikipedia for a lot of information . It was just on this one , at it is so important , I would go at it first hand . 

Like  I stood on a rock in the middle of the abandoned moor , one wet day . Turned my head to the sky , and asked ?  

IS THERE ANYBODY THERE ?  .?? 

Mike,

Similar to my story about thinking about having a poster to ask god publically for something unlikely to happen so everyone could together see the request fulfilled...as I was shoveling six inches of snow off my driveway in Oct.   I turned my head to the sky and said "funny guy. Funny"   There is no reason to think whatever happen was not coincidence...or any reason to think that the universe was not proving a point to me.

I do not have the courage to run another test.  Not  because I am afraid that people will think I am crazy, but because I am not prepared for another success.   On that day we ran the test, after I saw the rock, I went down to the feed store for some dog food, and noticed for the first time, the street address was 90.   On the way back up the mountain I glanced to my left on a small street, just once, up a driveway, and saw the street address 90 on a house I had never noticed before.  Made me go back up to the woods and check out the site.  That is when I saw two trees crossed in a 90 degree fashion near the site where I asked the question, and the rock was still there.  I later studied pictures I had taken that showed the trees were crossed before I asked the question...but still the whole collection of happenings, were interestingly pertinent to 90 degrees, which was especially persuasive to me, that somehow the universe was answering my orthogonal question.

So not running another test, is mostly because it is more satisfying to me, that I ran the test and got a positive response, and I would rather just remember that win, than to risk a loss.   But in addition, I do not know what to think of another win.   Sort of scary to consider the universe so responsive.  Like the two times I accepted a penny to talk to the clouds on my way out and two times in a few days a long drought in the place I left got tremendous rain.  I am satisfied to consider I earned my two cents, and since one time resulted in a hurricane and the other tremendous mud slides and floods, I decided since I could not control the results, I would stay out of the rain making business, and retire, two for two.   In terms of the orthogonal question, I am satisfied to retire 1 for 1.

Regards, TAR

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1 hour ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

IS THERE ANYBODY THERE ?  .?? 

Many people, of varying levels of faith, have done this many times over the millennia and yet ... answer came there none.

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3 hours ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

I appreciate your thought about getting on with the research , that is what I have been doing for the last 25 years . I am not so sure I am going to find what I am looking for in a huge electronic dictionary . As that is the consensus of a majority of people who do not believe much in supernatural phenomenon . That's why I have tried to do the research myself on this very important subject , first hand . I admit like everybody else , turns to  Wikipedia for a lot of information . It was just on this one , at it is so important , I would go at it first hand . 

 

OK, I get it. You refuse to take the little amount of effort required to establish the degree of "crowding" relative to a cross section of species on the lower and middle rungs of your hierarchy. Why the refusal? Apparently you are not serious. You are just stroking your ego. Or what?

It is taking me all of my will power to resist giving you a negative vote, for you are currently just taking the piss. You say you have been doing research for the last 25 years, but you won't take a couple of days to resolve a simple point! Why? I can't help thinking it is much more convenient for you to avoid the research that could undermine your hypothesis. So much simpler to just make endless unfounded assertions.

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Everybody has the right to ask there own questions and get there own answers .

I included mine on the original thread that Tar and I used to do experiments at either side of the Atlantic at the same GMT . 

And the results were published on this forum . 

I have chosen not to hide my belief that a higher tier of life exists above that of humans . However THIS THREAD  is an attempt to produce an observation which can penetrate that region of a 'higher than man '  being.

In order to lay down a structure for this experiment , I set up the HIERARCHY in principle , hoping to work from " bottom " to " top " . Unfortunately I seem to have used up my points , going from bottom [ gold fish ]  to middle [man], never having a chance to reach top [ spirit beings including God]. 

( now I have used up all my credibility reflected in status score being dessimated) 

It looks like I am unable to present the all important ,  evidence , reasoning , further development , utilising the principle of CROWDING amongst other things ,With this climatic  section ( HIERARCHY of  GOD and SPIRIT BEINGS ) . 

at the   [ spirit beings including God]. Stage of the project . That is unless someone , somewhere , can adjust my status up to cover losses unnecessarily imposed , as I discuss the desperately hated subject of GOD , SPIRITS, ALIENS or the like  . ( I must have had -10  to -15 ) shredded off me , even WITH some 'kind souls ' bolstering me throughout this process. 

 

PS  . I SEEM TO HAVE GOT THE WRONG INTERPRETATION OF THE SPELL CHECKER . IT SEEMED TO BE THROWING "  HEIRARCHY " at me constantly instead of  

" HIERARCHY"  the " " surrounding . 

 

Mike 

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19 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

Everybody has the right to ask there own questions and get there own answers .

I included mine on the original thread that Tar and I used to do experiments at either side of the Atlantic at the same GMT . 

And the results were published on this forum . 

I have chosen not to hide my belief that a higher tier of life exists above that of humans . However THIS THREAD  is an attempt to produce an observation which can penetrate that region of a 'higher than man '  being.

In order to lay down a structure for this experiment , I set up the HIERARCHY in principle , hoping to work from " bottom " to " top " . Unfortunately I seem to have used up my points , going from bottom [ gold fish ]  to middle [man], never having a chance to reach top [ spirit beings including God]. 

( now I have used up all my credibility reflected in status score being dessimated) 

It looks like I am unable to present the all important ,  evidence , reasoning , further development , utilising the principle of CROWDING amongst other things ,With this climatic  section ( HIERARCHY of  GOD and SPIRIT BEINGS ) . 

at the   [ spirit beings including God]. Stage of the project . That is unless someone , somewhere , can adjust my status up to cover losses unnecessarily imposed , as I discuss the desperately hated subject of GOD , SPIRITS, ALIENS or the like  . ( I must have had -10  to -15 ) shredded off me , even WITH some 'kind souls ' bolstering me throughout this process. 

 

PS  . I SEEM TO HAVE GOT THE WRONG INTERPRETATION OF THE SPELL CHECKER . IT SEEMED TO BE THROWING "  HEIRARCHY " at me constantly instead of  

" HIERARCHY"  the " " surrounding . 

 

Mike 

I know I said I was out but Mike, what on Earth makes you willing to assert your beliefs as facts? A hierarchy, like the one you are proposing, would require a similar level of evidence that I have a invisible dragon in my basement.  Why on Earth would anyone accept my dragon as real? Your hierarchy is much less believable, spirit beings? Really? Invoking baseless assertions to explain other baseless assertions?  You really need to show there is a hierarchy not to mention that there are, what are for all practical purposes, super beings. I would like to see evidence that there are superbeings, then possibly we can talk about some sort of order and arrangement.  

My own take on this is there are no superbeings, super civilizations possibly, but made up of normal beings that would be just as helpless as us if dropped down in the jungle naked with no tools. 

Think of it like us taking an adult neanderthal from 75,000 years ago and trying to "uplift" him to our level. Then think of a neanderthal baby raised in our society, no reason to think he could not grow up to grasp our society as well as we do yet we are separate species separated by 75,000 years of time. A Being 75,000 years ahead of us could be inexplicable to us but if one of us was raised by them from a baby I'd bet we could stand among them as equals.

Yet you want us to accept your claims as fact with no evidence whatsoever! 

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49 minutes ago, Mike Smith Cosmos said:

It looks like I am unable to present the all important ,  evidence , reasoning , further development , utilising the principle of CROWDING amongst other things ,With this climatic  section ( HIERARCHY of  GOD and SPIRIT BEINGS ) .

Am I talking to a brick wall? The only thing stopping you from presenting the evidence and reasoning in regard to the principle of crowding is that you won't get off your ****ing ass,  gather the evidence and present it. That (mis)behaviour has produced two immediate consequences:

1. I have downvoted your last post.

2. If you choose not to get of your ass and present something of substance I shall urge the moderators to shut this thread down.

13 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

A hierarchy, like the one you are proposing, would require a similar level of evidence that I have a invisible dragon in my basement. 

What do you feed yours on? Mine seems to prosper on a diet of wilfiul ignorance and blind faith. I keep these locked in the larder so the hierarchies can't get at them.

Edited by Area54
missing "to"

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