Feynman's IQ was 125?

[Alfred001]

This question was brought about by a claim I saw on Twitter

Another person lower in the thread says that Feynman tested 125 at 12. Which, from what I understand, doesn't mean you'd expect him to have a higher IQ as an adult. The tests supposedly adjust for age.

Anyway, is this true? Did he really test 125 and at what age?

[swansont]

That’s what he reported; the tests have changed over time (he was 12 in 1930) and his score would be on the side of the argument that IQ tests really don’t measure intelligence

[Peterkin]

It really doesn't mean much, especially given the age. How closely do 12-year-olds usually pay attention to tests? In what circumstance was it administered - like, would he even think it was important to do well, or was he thinking about why the light falls at just this angle on the teacher's desk? How many areas were being tested for? What are the biases in that particular test? 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Peterkin

[J.C.MacSwell]

He seemed to like to point that out. It's quite possible for him to have scored that on a test...almost impossible for that to have been his IQ...even given the limitations of IQ as a measurement of intelligence.

[genio]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:01 PM, swansont said:

That’s what he reported; the tests have changed over time (he was 12 in 1930) and his score would be on the side of the argument that IQ tests really don’t measure intelligence

Intellect.

IQ tests do measure intelligence and intelligence is nothing to rave about. Intelligence isn't used to verify whether the knowledge is accurate or not.

intelligence
ĭn-tĕl′ə-jəns
noun
The ability to acquire, understand, and use knowledge.

[dimreepr]

5 hours ago, genio said:

 Intelligence isn't used to verify whether the knowledge is accurate or not.

What is?

[Intoscience]

8 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

He seemed to like to point that out. It's quite possible for him to have scored that on a test...almost impossible for that to have been his IQ...even given the limitations of IQ as a measurement of intelligence.

Agreed,

IQ tests are designed to be a general consensus on a persons overall ability to process information (in short). Some people are just exceptional in one particular area and may then score lower in other areas, giving a lower overall score.  Not really that useful when describing a persons' "genius" levels.

I remember a college friend of mine who scored dreadfully on IQ tests but was an absolute whizz at solving murder mystery type problems. He would have made an excellent police detective! Sadly he passed away before he had chance to persue a career.    

[Sensei]

Quote

Feynman's IQ was 125?

Does it matter?

Why does it matter?

Why does such a trivial thing bother you?

 

[dimreepr]

42 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Does it matter?

Why does it matter?

Why does such a trivial thing bother you?

 

No, it doesn't matter; but as Feynman would have said "it is interesting". 😉 

[Peterkin]

I can imagine a bright, curious, restless 12-year-old boy sitting in front of that booklet for two hours.

"sheetrock, concrete, macaroni, plaster Which is the odd man out? Plaster has no c in it. Another list of numbers, booooring! Maybe if I cross my eyes I can make those two dots look like they're on the other side of the stick. The little boot-shaped thing goes around... Hey, that's make a neat kick-in-the-pants machine..."

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Intoscience said:

10 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

He seemed to like to point that out. It's quite possible for him to have scored that on a test...almost impossible for that to have been his IQ...even given the limitations of IQ as a measurement of intelligence.

Agreed,

Not sure I do, what measurement do you mean? 

Logical, emotional, mathematical, philosophical, dancing queen/ical etc. 

His IQ could have been 42, the universal constant, that the mice would never need to know.

[swansont]

9 hours ago, genio said:

Intellect.

No, intelligence.

If intelligence is innate, then you shouldn’t be able to improve it with test-taking practice or strategies. If you are measuring intelligence and not knowledge, then your score shouldn’t depend on whether you know what particular words mean, but it does. There shouldn’t be cultural biases, but there are.

All of these are flaws with IQ tests.

 

9 hours ago, genio said:

IQ tests do measure intelligence and intelligence is nothing to rave about. Intelligence isn't used to verify whether the knowledge is accurate or not.

intelligence
ĭn-tĕl′ə-jəns
noun
The ability to acquire, understand, and use knowledge.

So why was Feynman’s IQ 125? He obviously had a high capacity to acquire, understand and use knowledge.

[genio]

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What is?

Intellect - Wikipedia

Quote

WARNING ...Participation in topics I start can seriously affect you’re grades... WARNING

Your*

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

If intelligence is innate, then you shouldn’t be able to improve it with test-taking practice or strategies

Intelligence can't be wholly innate, since brain development and network-formation are affected by external factors, such as nutrition and socialization. Intellectual potential may be a given at birth, but there is no guarantee that it will ever be attained. 

And, of course, the means of measuring it are far from objective, accurate or consistent. The results of any test are also influenced by the emotional and physical state of the test-taker.  Practice does matter: it alters the approach of the test-taker to the kind of problems presented on a test.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Peterkin

[genio]

6 hours ago, swansont said:

No, intelligence.

If intelligence is innate, then you shouldn’t be able to improve it with test-taking practice or strategies. If you are measuring intelligence and not knowledge, then your score shouldn’t depend on whether you know what particular words mean, but it does. There shouldn’t be cultural biases, but there are.

All of these are flaws with IQ tests.

You're right. They don't measure intelligence but they don't measure intellect either.

I see the purpose of IQ tests as a way to sneakily measure the performance of our brains.

I use the definition of intelligence that the majority inherently believe because they believe we're all equal. Which equates to obtaining a formal education with intelligence.

Marilyn vos Savant is correct in the following video at the 3:40 mark.

6 hours ago, swansont said:

So why was Feynman’s IQ 125? He obviously had a high capacity to acquire, understand and use knowledge.

Feynman had the 43/23 Genius thinking channel. 23 – 43 – Structuring - Human Design Tools

Richard Feynman: The Right Angle Cross of Explanation 2 (23/43 | 49/4) - Human Design Tools and Life Work Theme: Explanation (Personal Focus - Form)

Feynman lived out his mechanics.

Marilyn vos Savant also has the 43/23 genius thinking channel but her channel is completely in 'Design' red. A lot more powerful and hence her IQ over 200.

Richard Feynman.pdf

Edited May 29, 2023 by genio

[CharonY]

6 hours ago, genio said:

I see the purpose of IQ tests as a way to sneakily measure the performance of our brains.

IQ tests were originally used to look for issues in cognitive functions. Accordingly, studies have shown stronger correlation between IQ scores and cognitive abilities in the lower IQ score regimen than in the higher. 

 

6 hours ago, genio said:

I use the definition of intelligence that the majority inherently believe because they believe we're all equal.

Pretty much no one believes that, at least not if you mean that everyone performs equally. If that was the case no test would ever make sense. The big questions really are what we measure with tests  (the Flynn effect being one of the factors that are not trivial to explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) , how we actually define intelligence (i.e. what do we mean if we use the term, and in which context) and how does it correlate with cognitive function and performance. 

The fact that there are a lot of discussions surrounding the issue among experts,  indicates that the matter is far more complicated than one might assume from cursory reading on that matter and it is therefore questionable to build too many assumptions on these shaky foundations.

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, genio said:

Intellect - Wikipedia

Your*

Intellect, as an answer is akin to me banging my head against a wall:

You> A car is not the correct way to travel.

Me> What is?

You> A van. 😣

BTW thank you for correcting my joke, thus rendering it not funny... 🙄

[John Cuthber]

IQ is a measure of how well you do in IQ tests.
It was originally designed to identify the children who were falling behind in school in order that they could be given better support. I'm sure we agree that's a worthy objective.

Using it to compare people who are- by whatever criterion- average or above is, at best, misusing the tool.

Getting into arguments about who has the bigger Dick, I mean the bigger IQ is unlikely to be productive.
 

[genio]

10 hours ago, CharonY said:

Pretty much no one believes that, at least not if you mean that everyone performs equally. If that was the case no test would ever make sense. The big questions really are what we measure with tests  (the Flynn effect being one of the factors that are not trivial to explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) , how we actually define intelligence (i.e. what do we mean if we use the term, and in which context) and how does it correlate with cognitive function and performance. 

The fact that there are a lot of discussions surrounding the issue among experts,  indicates that the matter is far more complicated than one might assume from cursory reading on that matter and it is therefore questionable to build too many assumptions on these shaky foundations.

The high rates of imposter syndrome say different. Those who are extrinsically motivated tend to believe subconsciously that we're all equal in cognitive abilities and that they can be seen as having high cognitive abilities if they obtain multiple degrees. They believe on some level that they have intelligence and/or intellect or that they can obtain it via learning (copy and pasting information).

There are obviously different types of intelligence and tests should be split to highlight strengths and weaknesses instead of lumping everything together in one test.

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, genio said:

The high rates of imposter syndrome say different. Those who are extrinsically motivated tend to believe subconsciously that we're all equal in cognitive abilities and that they can be seen as having high cognitive abilities if they obtain multiple degrees.

That does not follow. Folks with imposter syndrome assume that everyone around them is more capable than themselves and therefore feel that they are imposters. If the baseline assumption was the abilities are the same, they would not feel that way.

The rest does not make much more sense to me, either.