Voting By Mail

[iNow]

Perhaps Airbrush is advocating that chips be inserted below the skin on the back of our necks when we are born, a bit like pet owners do for dogs

[Curious layman]

17 hours ago, swansont said:

How do you get a government-issued ID? You go somewhere (not always close by) and wait in line. The same people affected by not having time or easy access with voting lines are affected by the ID procurement process.

 

13 hours ago, Airbrush said:

Then getting a government ID should be facilitated.  There should be offices set up in every local neighborhood that will issue official photo IDs.  Getting an ID is a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

In U.K. we just use birth certificates, passports or bills etc for i.d. Why can't you do the same in the U.S.? Seems like a simple thing. There's also this internet thing I keep hearing about, could you not just order one off it? not everyone has access to internet but most people do. Seems abit over complicated to me, unless that's the point.

34 minutes ago, iNow said:

Perhaps Airbrush is advocating that chips be inserted below the skin on the back of our necks when we are born, a bit like pet owners do for dogs

Already happening. I'd be up for it, would save a lot of time and hassle.

https://www.allure.com/story/rfdi-microchip-implant-in-skin

[Airbrush]

35 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

In U.K. we just use birth certificates, passports or bills etc for i.d. Why can't you do the same in the U.S.? Seems like a simple thing. There's also this internet thing I keep hearing about, could you not just order one off it? not everyone has access to internet but most people do. Seems abit over complicated to me, unless that's the point.

I totally agree.  Is there a reason people would not want their own plastic, durable photo ID?  When I got my first drivers license I was proud to carry it.

If the Trump admin will stand in the way of "speed ID" (local issuing offices in every neighborhood open 24/7) then the Dem House should try to pass a "speed ID" bill.  If Republicans block it, then it will be obvious to everyone that the GOP want to suppress the vote.  Joe Biden can make a big deal about it in his campaign.

"TRUMP WANTS YOU NOT TO VOTE"

Edited April 10, 2020 by Airbrush

[CharonY]

33 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

In U.K. we just use birth certificates, passports or bills etc for i.d. Why can't you do the same in the U.S.? Seems like a simple thing. There's also this internet thing I keep hearing about, could you not just order one off it? not everyone has access to internet but most people do. Seems abit over complicated to me, unless that's the point.

That is actually the point. The trick is to have requirements that makes it harder for a specific subset to obtain an ID. A simple one is physical presence. It seems trivial to get to the office and get one, however:

Quote

• Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options.
• More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
• 1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. People of color are more likely to be disenfranchised by these laws since they are less likely to have photo ID than the general population.
• Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays. In other states — Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

• More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. These voters may be particularly affected by the significant costs of the documentation required to obtain a photo ID. Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars.

  The result is plain: Voter ID laws will make it harder for hundreds of thousands of poor Americans to vote. They place a serious burden on a core constitutional right that should be universally available to every American citizen.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/poll-prri-voter-suppression/565355/

[Airbrush]

"Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours."

Thank you for making my case.  House of Reps should push Speed ID for everyone, then vote by mail. 

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Perhaps Airbrush is advocating that chips be inserted below the skin on the back of our necks when we are born, a bit like pet owners do for dogs

It will probably happen in the future, as the population grows and resources dwindle, authoritarians will take control.

IF we could BRING plastic photo-IDs to all eligible voters, would anyone object to having an ID?

Edited April 10, 2020 by Airbrush

[swansont]

2 hours ago, Curious layman said:

In U.K. we just use birth certificates, passports or bills etc for i.d. Why can't you do the same in the U.S.? Seems like a simple thing. There's also this internet thing I keep hearing about, could you not just order one off it? not everyone has access to internet but most people do. Seems abit over complicated to me, unless that's the point.

A birth certificate as a photo ID doesn’t seem feasible 

[StringJunky]

People have got 4 years from one election to the next to get an ID. If they can't do it in that time space I would assume they aren't really bothered.

Edited April 10, 2020 by StringJunky

[Curious layman]

44 minutes ago, swansont said:

A birth certificate as a photo ID doesn’t seem feasible 

Never said it was. There's more than one way to prove you're I.d. you know what I meant.

When I needed photo I.d. I filled in a form, sent a copy of my birth certificate and some utility bills and 3 days later my i.d. arrived. Took me 10 minutes, never left my sofa. Only in America would something so simple be so difficult. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Curious layman

[swansont]

46 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

People have got 4 years from one election to the next to get an ID. If they can't do it in that time space I would assume they aren't really bothered.

That assumption is a big part of the problem. 

[StringJunky]

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

That assumption is a big part of the problem. 

How do you mean?

[swansont]

Just now, StringJunky said:

How do you mean?

Why do you assume that people making minimum wage and working more than one job can afford to take a half a day (or more) off to get an ID?

[StringJunky]

57 minutes ago, swansont said:

Why do you assume that people making minimum wage and working more than one job can afford to take a half a day (or more) off to get an ID?

In 4 years?

[Curious layman]

Not sure if this is relevant but...

The factory I worked in opened a plant in America, they sent one of our plant managers over for a year to oversee it. He was stunned at their working conditions. We worked 8 hours a day, 5 days a week with 35 days paid holiday. For the same money, they were working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, every day they would be asking for overtime. They got 9 days unpaid holiday which most of them couldn't afford to take.

4 years might sound like a lot of time, but if your working 12 hours a day with no holidays then when are you going to find the time to get your i.d. I imagine the cost would be a problem too, there doesn't seem to be much of a safety net in America. Those few dollars you need to spend getting there makes a huge difference if your already short of money.

But this really shouldn't be a problem in the worlds most technologically advanced nation should it. It's tragic really, I feel sorry for them.

[MigL]

Maybe someone can explain it to me too...

If you voted in the last election, does the Government not have a record of you voting ?
( not who you voted for, but that you voted )
Does the US not conduct a Census every so many years ( for all sorts of reasons ) that indicate who is an eligible voter ?
And does the Government not have your mailing address from that Census or your tax return?

It would cover about 80 % of eligible voters, and a Voter Registration Card could be mailed to them a month prior to election time.
It would make the line-ups of people needing to prove that they are eligible to vote, much shorter.

A backward country like Canada manages with such a system.
Yet the US can't ?????

[iNow]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

A backward country like Canada manages with such a system.
Yet the US can't ?????

We’re so interested in proclaiming how exceptional we are that we often forget to actually be exceptional 

[swansont]

4 hours ago, StringJunky said:

In 4 years?

If you’ve had to take time off for other things, like being sick or hurt, one more day might be a luxury.

[MigL]

5 hours ago, iNow said:

’re so interested in proclaiming how exceptional we are

I thought that was mostly your President ?

[Sensei]

swansont, your description of United States sounds like hell on Earth...

 

...for some people..

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Sensei

[MigL]

You should visit sometime, Sensei. Not right now, though, we're in the middle of a pandemic.
( its actually not that bad at all )

[CharonY]

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

In 4 years?

INow touched on it earlier, but it is a part of a larger system that combines voter disenfranchisement (e.g. gerrymandering, so that votes count less, purging folks from voter rolls and many other measures to undermine trust in the process) and making it very inconvenient (voter ID, limitation of mail-in ballots, few polling stations, especially for certain demographics, no getting time off to vote ).

It is not hard to see that quite a few folks won't bother to invest what little time and money they have to engage in a process that does not seem to make a difference after all. 

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

INow touched on it earlier, but it is a part of a larger system that combines voter disenfranchisement (e.g. gerrymandering, so that votes count less, purging folks from voter rolls and many other measures to undermine trust in the process) and making it very inconvenient (voter ID, limitation of mail-in ballots, few polling stations, especially for certain demographics, no getting time off to vote ).

It is not hard to see that quite a few folks won't bother to invest what little time and money they have to engage in a process that does not seem to make a difference after all. 

The Dems could make it an election issue: put a big spotlight on all the methods that are being used to curtail voting.

8 hours ago, swansont said:

If you’ve had to take time off for other things, like being sick or hurt, one more day might be a luxury.

I suppose it might be difficult if the GOP are proactively trying to make it harder.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

 

I suppose it might be difficult if the GOP are proactively trying to make it harder.

Which they’ve admitted to, multiple times.

[StringJunky]

30 minutes ago, swansont said:

Which they’ve admitted to, multiple times.

Aren't they getting sued for undemocratic behaviour?

[iNow]

48 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Aren't they getting sued for undemocratic behaviour?

Sometimes, which is why their strategy of packing the courts with judges who will rule in their favor during these last several years has been such a good move. It’s all about gaining and maintaining power. 
 

9 hours ago, MigL said:

I thought that was mostly your President ?

A steady and solid 40% of our country stands behind essentially everything he says and does. He’s an example of the problem, not it’s cause. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by iNow

[swansont]

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Aren't they getting sued for undemocratic behaviour?

As iNow says, sometimes. In addition the court-packing (which recently manifested itself in the Wisconsin decision which disenfranchised many absentee voters), these cases (along with gerrymandering ones) often take a long time to go through the system, as there are many delaying tactics being deployed.

11 hours ago, Sensei said:

swansont, your description of United States sounds like hell on Earth...

 

...for some people..

 

For some people, yes. For certain people trying to emigrate from somewhere else, especially so. It's all part of a bigger push to consolidate power. Voting is just the effort that's most visible right now, because (again, as GOPers have admitted) if everyone who is eligible can actually vote, the GOP tends to lose the elections.