I think flies, cockroaches and other insects do not have a brain ...

 

They do.

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/do-insects-have-brains-1968477

 

I read recently that a fly's reaction to being swotted is not actually a brain reaction in the first instance, but hard-wired somewhere else. ...

Similar reactions are found in most animals, including us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_arc

Similar reactions are found in most animals, including us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_arc

This is imo because your unconscious mind sends out a reaction. You don't use your conscious mind to decide for the appropriate reaction since that would take to long. It's like when you immediately extend your arm when you see a glass falling.

 

 

Today I learned the Pangolin is the only mammal with large, protective keratin scales covering their skin.

They eat mostly ants and termites and look like armadillos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin#Diet

This is imo because your unconscious mind sends out a reaction. You don't use your conscious mind to decide for the appropriate reaction since that would take to long. It's like when you immediately extend your arm when you see a glass falling.

 

 

Well, that may be true in your opinion, however, in fact, it's not.

The reflexes can still happen even in a brain dead individual

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041134503012752

 

The classic "test of reflexes" is this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_reflex

And if you get someone else to tap your knee just under the cap you will notice an odd effect. You see your foot move before you feel the tap.

You can't have made, even an unconscious, decision to move the foot before you felt the stimulus.

 

They do.

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/do-insects-have-brains-1968477

Yep, pretty embarrassing for me. +1

The smallest brain I've heard of is in a fairywasp, which IIRC has about 100,000 neurons and the nucleus shrink as it matures. These are the smallest of insects, being the size of a large amoeba.

Well, that may be true in your opinion, however, in fact, it's not.

The reflexes can still happen even in a brain dead individual

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041134503012752

 

The classic "test of reflexes" is this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_reflex

And if you get someone else to tap your knee just under the cap you will notice an odd effect. You see your foot move before you feel the tap.

You can't have made, even an unconscious, decision to move the foot before you felt the stimulus.

Ok but when a fly flies away because of being swatted then he or she reacts on a conscious observation.

When a brain dead person moves or when the patellar reflex moves your leg, its not because of a conscious observation...it's pure physical.

It's pure physical :

Ok but when a fly flies away because of being swatted then he or she reacts on a conscious observation.

 

 

No.

It's a reflex action- like when you put your hand on something hot + pull it away before you even know it's painful.

(And that's before we get into the question of whether or not flies are conscious.

(And that's before we get into the question of whether or not flies are conscious.

Since I haven't seen a convincing definition of "consciousness" I say they're both.

No.

It's a reflex action- like when you put your hand on something hot + pull it away before you even know it's painful.

(And that's before we get into the question of whether or not flies are conscious.

How can you know your hand might get burned without a conscious observation?

A reflex action is involuntary but the sending of a reflex action can be voluntary or involuntary.

When the sending of a reflex action is involuntary then it's pure physical.(brain dead person moves or patellar reflex moves your leg)

When it's sent voluntary then it's sent because of a conscious observation...like when a fly observes a swatting device.

 

This is a nice video. The fact that the fly flies away in the opposite direction of the swatter imo shows that it's a conscious choice.

How can you know your hand might get burned without a conscious observation?

A reflex action is involuntary but the sending of a reflex action can be voluntary or involuntary.

When the sending of a reflex action is involuntary then it's pure physical.(brain dead person moves or patellar reflex moves your leg)

When it's sent voluntary then it's sent because of a conscious observation...like when a fly observes a swatting device.

 

This is a nice video. The fact that the fly flies away in the opposite direction of the swatter imo shows that it's a conscious choice.

 

!

Moderator Note

You are welcome to start your own thread on this, but dragging this thread down specific rabbit holes - which is against the spirit of the OP - needs to stop.

Today I learned that a tyrannosaurus rex called Sue (although I doubt that was her name whilst alive) probably suffered from gout.

Today I learned that a tyrannosaurus rex called Sue (although I doubt that was her name whilst alive) probably suffered from gout.

Poor thing, she should have eaten less meat and watched her weight.

 

Today I learned that Jeff Bezos (Amazon CEO) is spending a $B per year to put a base on the moon built by robots.

Edited July 4, 20178 yr by EdEarl

I learned that small animals perceive time at a greater resolution than humans. A fly can perceive up to 7 times more audio and visual information per second than a human. It would seem that small animals live shorter but faster lives, a dogs life of 15 years while experiencing time at a higher resolution might be just as "long" as a larger animals life living longer but at a lower time resolution. Fascinating...I wonder if Einstein had these kinds of thoughts while coming up with relativity.

 

https://curiosity.com/topics/small-animals-perceive-the-world-in-slow-motion-curiosity/

 

I came to this conclusion and was going to make a thread on it months ago but I forgot about it. I guess they beat me to it then.

Today I learned a lot of rather insignificant facts about goats ( which is why I love them).

 

One of those things is that goats are sometimes kept with racehorses as a companion animal. This is thought to have a calming effect on the horse. The term "Get your goat" (meaning to agitate someone) is rumored to have originated from the practice of stealing the companion goat so the racehorse would do poorly.

 

http://www.barnyardpetvet.com/GoatTrivia1.html

 

 

P.S. Sue's name was probably rargagharargh.

Edited July 5, 20178 yr by NimrodTheGoat

Today I learned a lot of rather insignificant facts about goats ( which is why I love them).

 

One of those things is that goats are sometimes kept with racehorses as a companion animal. This is thought to have a calming effect on the horse. The term "Get your goat" (meaning to agitate someone) is rumored to have originated from the practice of stealing the companion goat so the racehorse would do poorly.

 

http://www.barnyardpetvet.com/GoatTrivia1.html

 

 

P.S. Sue's name was probably rargagharargh.

 

They were also used in slaughterhouses, to calm the other animals.

The term "Get your goat" (meaning to agitate someone) is rumored to have originated from the practice of stealing the companion goat so the racehorse would do poorly.

 

 

 

Nice theory, but there is an alternative one, that "goat" was a prison slang for "anger".

Today I learned why Americans refrigerate eggs and Europeans don't. To combat salmonella, American egg producers wash their eggs in a solution that removes a protective "cuticle" coating. The loss of that coating renders those eggs vulnerable to additional contaminants that refrigeration prevents. Europeans prefer to vaccinate their chickens against salmonella rather than remove their eggs protective coating; therefore, refrigeration isn't required.

Edited July 7, 20178 yr by DrmDoc

What? Since when do Europeans not refrigerate eggs? I've never seen an egg not being refrigerated. I cannot speak for all European countries, though.

The linked article described procedures in England but did not mention any other country. Whether eggs are refrigerated in other European countries appears to remain an open question.

Today I learned there is a retirement home for former prostitutes in Mexico.

Today I learned that someone actually did a check on how well waterglass preserves eggs.

Today I learned that having a photographic memory is a myth; however, eidetic memory is real and common to children not adults.

Also, today I learned about an extraordinary letter from Jordan Anderson, a freed slave, to his former master when said master asked Mr. Anderson to return as a paid worker. What a well done response it was.

Today I learned there lived a Straight-tusked elephant in the late Pleistocene in Eurasia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-tusked_elephant

Today I learned there lived a Straight-tusked elephant in the late Pleistocene in Eurasia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-tusked_elephant

Hey, I knew that. You could have just asked me

Hey, I knew that. You could have just asked me

If I say something else about elephants, I'll contact you first.🐘

Edited July 14, 20178 yr by Itoero