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The North Korea Problem

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Like most other Americans, I support progress with N Korea and applaud what’s happening. What worries me, however, is the likelihood that this is all happening primarily bc KJU has already achieved his nuclear ambitions.

Basically, maybe it has little to do w DJTs rocket man tweets and bellicosity and more to do w the fact that N Korea already has in hand what it has wanted these last several decades. 

Either way, I support progress. The status quo was untenable, but will KJU and China support/believe our promises given what just happened w the Iran deal... Will Europe? And let’s not mention the complexities introduced by the fact that Israel and Iran are tossing missiles at each other tonight

Edited by iNow

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On 3/13/2017 at 12:47 AM, Airbrush said:

Although I haven't heard this in the news, I am making the educated guess that North Korea has had all the time they need to set up thousands of artillery pieces all along their side of the border pointed directly at Seoul. If we do anything to destroy their nuclear program or long-range missiles, they can press a button that will rain down total ruin on the city of Seoul, completely destroying it a few minutes. Am I wrong? Anti-missile batteries can't do anything against artillery shells.

 

Maybe it's time to relocate Seoul and its occupants to the southern tip of the peninsula.

Meh...no need to relocate Seoul or take any preemptive protective measures in South Korea.

Why?

Well.... Kim Jong Un is certainly a bit crazy, but not to the extent where he doesn't know that an artillery barrage on his neighbors and our allies to his south would not spell immediate doom for him and all he holds dear. Such as most of the infrastructure of his shite hole capital city. As well as the lives of at least a few thousand of his country men.

All this would happen of course courtesy of massive retaliatory air strikes from us as well as most likely a couple allies. We might even put boots on the ground in the form of a couple special ops teams to make sure we terminate his command. With, yep....extreme prejudice.

He's just like his daddy. A hopeless and childish sabre rattler. Whenever he feels he's not getting enough attention or respect. So he sets off a couple test bombs. Or plays war games out where everyone can see him and his braindead automatons.

But at heart he's gutless and inept. And I'll never make his country more than it is now. He will forever remain third rate. And also will always be a cartoonish caricature of a hopelessly deluded sociopathic puppet master.

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12 minutes ago, Velocity_Boy said:

But at heart he's gutless and inept. And I'll never make his country more than it is now. He will forever remain third rate. And also will always be a cartoonish caricature of a hopelessly deluded sociopathic puppet master.

So if you read up on folks that study him the consensus seems to be that at least within his context he is considered to be a rational actor.  Even the purges and assassinations he ordered could be seen as steps to secure his position. The most positive speculation I have seen is that by playing up Trump as the madman he is able to push through changes in the relationship with SK that he would not be able to do without risking loss of power. 

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8 minutes ago, CharonY said:

So if you read up on folks that study him the consensus seems to be that at least within his context he is considered to be a rational actor.  Even the purges and assassinations he ordered could be seen as steps to secure his position. The most positive speculation I have seen is that by playing up Trump as the madman he is able to push through changes in the relationship with SK that he would not be able to do without risking loss of power. 

Rational?

Uh-huh.

Ya mean like this batshit crazy stuff?

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-quotes-2018-1

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The term rational actor has a very specific meaning in this context. Ignoring that context does not bolster your point. Quite the opposite, really. 

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Does anyone have any insight into what the Administration's goals are regarding North Korea? Far as I can tell the current position is that provided Kim Jung-un doesn't continue nuclear weapons testing or attack a neighboring country he is free to stay in power and do whatever else he wants. Out of sight out of mind seems to be the Admin's approach towards foreign dictators. Like Assad, he can stay in power and do whatever he wants provided he doesn't gas his own people. Seems like a hit or miss strategy which relies of dictators to maintain functional/peaceful control overtime which isn't guaranteed. 

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2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Does anyone have any insight into what the Administration's goals are regarding North Korea?

It'll be whatever they manage to agree, or the big D throws his toys out the pram. 

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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:26 AM, Ten oz said:

Does anyone have any insight into what the Administration's goals are regarding North Korea? 

The goal is to come away from the meeting with ANY kind of a "win" to squash talk of impeachment.

For Kim the goal is probably to keep Trump in power because Kim appreciates knowing how Trump thinks from revealing tweets.  Kim likes how Trump is so public about his thoughts and feelings, and Kim would be starting at square one if Pence became president.  Kim knows a LOT about Trump (who is literally an open book, Art of the Deal) and therefore thinks he can manipulate him.  Kim called Trump a "dotard" ("an old person, especially one who has become weak or senile, "an old person with impaired intellect").  Nobody knows much about the thoughts and feelings of Kim.

Edited by Airbrush

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1 hour ago, Airbrush said:

The goal is to come away from the meeting with ANY kind of a "win" to squash talk of impeachment.

For Kim the goal is probably to keep Trump in power because Kim appreciates knowing how Trump thinks from revealing tweets.  Kim likes how Trump is so public about his thoughts and feelings, and Kim would be starting at square one if Pence became president.  Kim knows a LOT about Trump (who is literally an open book, Art of the Deal) and therefore thinks he can manipulate him.  Kim called Trump a "dotard" ("an old person, especially one who has become weak or senile, "an old person with impaired intellect").  Nobody knows much about the thoughts and feelings of Kim.

Kim's international profile has definitely risen during Trump's run thus far. He is no longer treated as a madman committing atrocities against his own people for self enrichment. It appears to me that all Kim has to do is promise Trump he won't test anymore weapons and all is forgiven. There has been some unspecific talk of Kim giving up weapons he already has but I think most people consider that to be a long shot. At the end of the day it isn't clear Kim could test anymore weapons even if he won't to. The facility he was using is too badly damaged from previous tests. So in effect all Kim has to do is pretend to give something he no longer has up and let Trump get a win as you mentioned. We have known since last September that Kim's facility is damaged yet Trump and his supporters are still beating there chests and acting as if Trump is somehow responsible for Kim not ordering more tests. Hopefully Trump's team has a real plan. 


 

Quote

 

October 13, 2017

(SEOUL) — A series of tremors and landslides near North Korea’s nuclear test base likely mean the country’s sixth and largest blast has destabilized the region, and the Punggye-ri nuclear site may not be used for much longer to test nuclear weapons, experts say.

A small quake was detected early on Friday near the North’s nuclear test site, South Korea’s weather agency said, but unlike quakes associated with nuclear tests, it did not appear to be manmade. The tremor was the latest in a string of at least three shocks to be observed since Pyongyang’s Sept. 3 nuclear test, which caused a 6.3 magnitude earthquake.

Friday’s quake was a magnitude 2.7 with a depth of 3 km in North Hamgyong Province in North Korea, the Korea Meteorological Administration said. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) measured the quake at 2.9 magnitude at a depth of 5 km.

The series of quakes has prompted experts and observers to suspect the last test – which the North claimed to be of a hydrogen bomb – may have damaged the mountainous location in the northwest tip of the country, where all of North Korea’s six nuclear tests were conducted.

“The explosion from the Sept. 3 test had such power that the existing tunnels within the underground testing site might have caved in,” said Kim So-gu, head researcher at the Korea Seismological Institute.

“I think the Punggye-ri region is now pretty saturated. If it goes ahead with another test in this area, it could risk radioactive pollution.”

http://time.com/4981037/north-korea-damaged-nuclear-test-site/

 

 

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So, the North Korea summit is no longer happening, but let's address what's MOST important here... Will Trump still get a Nobel Peace Prize?

 

:rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

So, the North Korea summit is no longer happening, but let's address what's MOST important here... Will Trump still get a Nobel Peace Prize?

 

:rolleyes:

Only if he can keep his finger off the trigger, so no.

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Lost in all of this is the ever lowering bar for U.S. policy. Trump and his supporters, conservatives in general, have created a huge vacuum in policy where only Trump's daily infamy value matters. Two years ago merely preventing further nuclear testing in North Korea wasn't a bench mark for U.S. policy success. It was the absolute minimum we expected and anything less was reason for intense criticism from all sides of the political spectrum. The difficult questions U.S. policy makers chewed on surrounded what to do about Kim Jung-un himself because he is a tyrannical leader killing his own people. Additional concerns were China's growing influence and ability to leverage NK distraction from their presence in the South China Sea (Conservatives once gave 2 sh!ts about that). The hyper focus of Trump for on camera issues, whatever pundits are getting ratings talking about, is detriment to U.S. foreign policy overall as we have taken our eyes off of many things: Crimea, Yemen, Assad, South China Sea, and etc.

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Lost in all of this is the ever lowering bar for U.S. policy. Trump and his supporters, conservatives in general, have created a huge vacuum in policy where only Trump's daily infamy value matters. Two years ago merely preventing further nuclear testing in North Korea wasn't a bench mark for U.S. policy success. It was the absolute minimum we expected and anything less was reason for intense criticism from all sides of the political spectrum. The difficult questions U.S. policy makers chewed on surrounded what to do about Kim Jung-un himself because he is a tyrannical leader killing his own people. Additional concerns were China's growing influence and ability to leverage NK distraction from their presence in the South China Sea (Conservatives once gave 2 sh!ts about that). The hyper focus of Trump for on camera issues, whatever pundits are getting ratings talking about, is detriment to U.S. foreign policy overall as we have taken our eyes off of many things: Crimea, Yemen, Assad, South China Sea, and etc.

Any policies based on the for-profit vagaries of our privately run, entertainment-based media are designed to further investment opportunities for those who leech onto periods of chaos for personal gain. At a time when Russia and China are flexing the power they've carefully grown over the last decade, we have a leader who seems bent on removing the US as a contender while he enriches himself and his cronies. Trump's isolationist tactics are pushing traditional allies away at a time when we need them most. 

Net benefit for Putin is easy to see. He gets to seem like the reasonable guy who just wants peace, and at home he gets to flap his hand at the silly Americans. And Putin's style is to use every victory on his side and every misstep on the other side to further his less savory policies with his own people. Internationally, Russia's importance is inflated, and Putin is much more likely to be proclaimed leader-for-life. I would not be surprised at all to see Putin step in to fill the void Turnip has created in the NK talks.

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10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Any policies based on the for-profit vagaries of our privately run, entertainment-based media are designed to further investment opportunities for those who leech onto periods of chaos for personal gain. At a time when Russia and China are flexing the power they've carefully grown over the last decade, we have a leader who seems bent on removing the US as a contender while he enriches himself and his cronies. Trump's isolationist tactics are pushing traditional allies away at a time when we need them most. 

Net benefit for Putin is easy to see. He gets to seem like the reasonable guy who just wants peace, and at home he gets to flap his hand at the silly Americans. And Putin's style is to use every victory on his side and every misstep on the other side to further his less savory policies with his own people. Internationally, Russia's importance is inflated, and Putin is much more likely to be proclaimed leader-for-life. I would not be surprised at all to see Putin step in to fill the void Turnip has created in the NK talks.

I agree Putin may step in and seize influence with NK. We (Trump admin) has already ceded the future Assad and of Syria to Putin. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Any policies based on the for-profit vagaries of our privately run, entertainment-based media are designed to further investment opportunities for those who leech onto periods of chaos for personal gain. At a time when Russia and China are flexing the power they've carefully grown over the last decade, we have a leader who seems bent on removing the US as a contender while he enriches himself and his cronies. Trump's isolationist tactics are pushing traditional allies away at a time when we need them most. 

Net benefit for Putin is easy to see. He gets to seem like the reasonable guy who just wants peace, and at home he gets to flap his hand at the silly Americans. And Putin's style is to use every victory on his side and every misstep on the other side to further his less savory policies with his own people. Internationally, Russia's importance is inflated, and Putin is much more likely to be proclaimed leader-for-life. I would not be surprised at all to see Putin step in to fill the void Turnip has created in the NK talks.

 As far as NK and Tehran goes the US is looking like an arsehole and can't be trusted. All of Tehran''scomplaints and accusations atm are entirely justified. I'm not surprised KIm's pissed off, with all the bragging and posturing that Trump and his flunkies have been doing. You've got a real bunch of amateurs governing your country... don't they even realise all their adversaries read what they say in the news?! 

Edited by StringJunky

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Lost in all of this is the ever lowering bar for U.S. policy. Trump and his supporters, conservatives in general, have created a huge vacuum in policy where only Trump's daily infamy value matters. Two years ago merely preventing further nuclear testing in North Korea wasn't a bench mark for U.S. policy success. It was the absolute minimum we expected and anything less was reason for intense criticism from all sides of the political spectrum. The difficult questions U.S. policy makers chewed on surrounded what to do about Kim Jung-un himself because he is a tyrannical leader killing his own people. Additional concerns were China's growing influence and ability to leverage NK distraction from their presence in the South China Sea (Conservatives once gave 2 sh!ts about that). The hyper focus of Trump for on camera issues, whatever pundits are getting ratings talking about, is detriment to U.S. foreign policy overall as we have taken our eyes off of many things: Crimea, Yemen, Assad, South China Sea, and etc.

It is interesting that many frame it around Trump's actions. However, one different viewpoint is that the situation was created or at least opportunistically seized bu Kim. He succeeded in getting Trump into an embarrassing position, potentially driving a wedge between him and SK and potentially easing pressure from China. In broader context, it adds to the already weakening of the diplomatic standing of the US, even among its allies. 

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5 minutes ago, CharonY said:

It is interesting that many frame it around Trump's actions. However, one different viewpoint is that the situation was created or at least opportunistically seized bu Kim. He succeeded in getting Trump into an embarrassing position, potentially driving a wedge between him and SK and potentially easing pressure from China. In broader context, it adds to the already weakening of the diplomatic standing of the US, even among its allies. 

Trump lacks shame or integrity. This isn't an embarrassing situation for him. Trump has already basked in Noble Peace Prize talk high approval of his handling of the situation. For Trump this matter has already been won. Whatever happens next he will call someones else's fault. The actual outcome isn't that important to Trump or Republicans. What matters is that it plays wells and helps them maintain power after the midterm. I like sport analogies when discussing the current state of politics because so many on the right treat it as sport. Trump already won his Ring/Championship on this issue. Already performed his victory lap. Once an athlete has a ring no self respecting fan would allow it argued that said athlete isn't a winner. 

Quote

 

Fifty-two percent of Americans liked how Trump was handling the North Korea issue, according to an average of polls taken since April,2 compared with just 39 percent who disapproved. I’m not sure 52 percent of people would approve of Trump eating eggs at breakfast, as polls suggest a plurality of Americans oppose virtually anything he does. North Korea and the economy are the only issues on which he gets net positive marks (and only barely on the economy).3

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-handling-of-north-korea-has-been-one-of-the-few-things-americans-liked-about-his-presidency/

 

 

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I seriously doubt there has ever been any likelihood of NK giving up their nuclear weapons program - not for US threats, not for inducements. Having the biggest arsenal gives the illusion of overwhelming power to remake things the way you want but I think that's always been illusory.

Ieff738ff1d32a0eb6ceac15b7339766b.jpg

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2 hours ago, CharonY said:

It is interesting that many frame it around Trump's actions. However, one different viewpoint is that the situation was created or at least opportunistically seized bu Kim. He succeeded in getting Trump into an embarrassing position, potentially driving a wedge between him and SK and potentially easing pressure from China. In broader context, it adds to the already weakening of the diplomatic standing of the US, even among its allies. 

I think this is most likely actually (the opportunistic seizing part). Giving up nukes is Kim's big play, the one he gets the most concessions for (if he's even thinking like that -- it doesn't fit in with his larger stated goals). Bolton painted a grim future that starts with unequivocal denuclearization. Why on Earth would Kim start negotiations shackled like that, like it's a hostile takeover by a corporation?

This move of Trump's does the same for Kim as it does for Putin, making them seem like more reasonable actors in international politics (and especially more reasonable than the US for a change). Trump clowns to his popular base (who have no idea what successful negotiations on that scale look like), the media covers his every ignorant tweet because money, and the boring, bad ratings voices of reason at home are drowned out by the blare. 

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After all the criticism he's levelled against the former administration's diplomatic deals ( and cancellations of their deals ), he must have realized that any trivial concessions he could have gotten out of KJU/North Korea would have made him look like an  idiot and opened him up to ridicule/criticism.

Both leaders have come across as idiots ( what Nobel Prize ? ), but while the North Korean people will either never know, or are simply forced to support an idiot, the American people, and specifically D Trump supporters, should start to realize that he's not the great negotiator he claims to be.
( how are things going with the Chinese trade negotiations ? )

A summit is still possible, in the future, but it'll have to involve a much more capable President ( and a few other neighboring stakeholders ). It simply needs to be pointed out to North Korea that their ONLY bargaining chip is their nuclear program; they have nothing else to offer the rest of the world.
Unless they are willing to 'put that on the table' there is no reason to negotiate anything.

Edited by MigL

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17 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Net benefit for Putin is easy to see. He gets to seem like the reasonable guy who just wants peace, and at home he gets to flap his hand at the silly Americans. And Putin's style is to use every victory on his side and every misstep on the other side to further his less savory policies with his own people. Internationally, Russia's importance is inflated, and Putin is much more likely to be proclaimed leader-for-life. I would not be surprised at all to see Putin step in to fill the void Turnip has created in the NK talks.

To your point about Putin he appears to already be filling the gap as Marcon is in Russia attempting to find workable solutions for Iran, Syria, Ukraine, and NK. 

Quote

 

"Kim Jong Un on his part did everything he promised to do, even blew up some tunnels on their sites and after this we hear the US is canceling the meeting," Putin said, referring to North Korea's apparent destruction of at least three nuclear tunnels, observation buildings, a metal foundry and living quarters at its Punggye-ri nuclear test site on Thursday.

Putin said that Russia had "counted" on the summit to be "the beginning to the whole process of denuclearization."

Macron, who is in Russia amid a push by European lawmakers to save the Iran nuclear deal, echoed the sentiment, saying that he hoped the cancellation was "just a hitch" in the peace process.

The French President was unsuccessful in persuading Trump to stick with the Iran nuclear deal during an official visit to the US last month. At the time, Trump's critics said that his decision to scrap the Iran deal raised questions over his ability to forge an agreement with North Korea.

In addition to the US exit from the Iranian nuclear deal, Macron's talks with Putin are set to focus on the conflicts in Syria and Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/world/putin-macron-meeting-north-korea-summit-intl/index.html

 

 

29 minutes ago, MigL said:

After all the criticism he's levelled against the former administration's diplomatic deals ( and cancellations of their deals ), he must have realized that any trivial concessions he could have gotten out of KJU/North Korea would have made him look like an  idiot and opened him up to ridicule/criticism.

Both leaders have come across as idiots ( what Nobel Prize ? ), but while the North Korean people will either never know, or are simply forced to support an idiot, the American people, and specifically D Trump supporters, should start to realize that he's not the great negotiator he claims to be.
( how are things going with the Chinese trade negotiations ? )

A summit is still possible, in the future, but it'll have to involve a much more capable President ( and a few other neighboring stakeholders ). It simply needs to be pointed out to North Korea that their ONLY bargaining chip is their nuclear program; they have nothing else to offer the rest of the world.
Unless they are willing to 'put that on the table' there is no reason to negotiate anything.

A meeting with Kim Jung-un has been discussed for years but the trigger was never pulled because it was broadly understood that such a meeting would legitimize Kim. It is along the same lines of not negotiating with terrorist, we don't give tyrants positive photo ops. This is exactly what Trump has done. I have no problem with the administration speaking with North Korea. Communication is critical. The error has been in the celebratory way Trump has promoted the talks. It has heightened Kim Jung-un's global stature. Trump has done what previous admins, regardless of party, knew better than to do. The notion of a free Korean peninsula free of the Kim family is dead. Kim Jung-un has been elevated from tyrant to accepted/respected leader of North Korea.  

North Korea's nuclear test sites are too damaged from previous tests for further use. Kim played to Trump's ego by letting Trump take credit for the closing of test facilities which had to be closed anyway do to Kim's own activity. In trade Kim has solidified his international standing. Two years ago the walls were closing in on Kim and his future was tenuous. Today Kim fields phone calls from leaders all over the world and his future in bright. All Kim really has to do at this point is not perform anymore testing (he already has nukes) and the global community is fine with now. It is a huge win for Kim Jung-un, huge.

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2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

The error has been in the celebratory way Trump has promoted the talks. It has heightened Kim Jung-un's global stature.

QFT. KJU has already gotten what he wants... He's been recognized as a world leader... He's been given a seat at the table among the "league of nations," and he's now been platformed as a peer. He's been taken seriously by the world, is meeting with the most powerful countries of US and China, and it has legitimized him as a powerful person who has made N.Korea a player.

Everything else is just gravy at this point.

Kim got what he wanted the moment Trump agreed to meet. Sure, KJU's been discussing specific industry investments from the US into NK with Pompeo, but that's all secondary to his push to develop nuclear weapons in an attempt to be taken seriously by the world. He's solidified his place, been praised by the POTUS as a great chairman, elevated instead of treated like the teapot dictator he is. They got what they wanted already, and the US keeps losing more and more credibility.

Are you tired of all that winning yet?

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4 hours ago, MigL said:

Both leaders have come across as idiots ( what Nobel Prize ? ), but while the North Korean people will either never know, or are simply forced to support an idiot,

I don't think that it is entirely accurate. Based on various articles on NK, it seems that the Kim's position is far more precarious than one might imagine. The purges and assassinations were means to strengthen his internal power and there are reported worries regarding military coups, especially when he leaves the country. Now,  NK has again stated that they are open for talks any time, thus placing the blame squarely at the US. Thus Kim has effectively eased pressure on NK and made the US president look bad. These are huge wins for Kim who can use his external wins to cement his position. 

 

Quote

“If the summit with Trump can be salvaged, they get the benefit of being treated as an equal with the superpower and staged process of denuclearization,” he said. “And if it can’t be, the result is that a wedge has been driven between South Korea and the U.S.” 

Indeed, the cancellation caught the government in Seoul completely by surprise and embarrassed South Korean President Moon Jae-in, who had been helping Trump prepare for the Singapore summit and had gone out of his way to flatter his American counterpart, even supporting the idea he should win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Trump didn’t want to tell Moon, who had been in the Oval Office only on Tuesday, about the decision and risk it leaking to the press, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

So when the announcement came, South Korean diplomats in Washington frantically began making calls to try to figure out if the president was serious and what he meant by the decision.

I suspect the wedge between SK and US is one of the biggest wins for NK, in this respect. 

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1 hour ago, CharonY said:

I don't think that it is entirely accurate. Based on various articles on NK, it seems that the Kim's position is far more precarious than one might imagine. The purges and assassinations were means to strengthen his internal power and there are reported worries regarding military coups, especially when he leaves the country. Now,  NK has again stated that they are open for talks any time, thus placing the blame squarely at the US. Thus Kim has effectively eased pressure on NK and made the US president look bad. These are huge wins for Kim who can use his external wins to cement his position. 

 

I suspect the wedge between SK and US is one of the biggest wins for NK, in this respect. 

I agree. I pointed out back in August of 2017 that Kim Jung-un was more experienced than Trump. Since that time Kim Jung-un has been able to strength his position with China, establish one on one negotiations with South Korea, and render U.S. opposition toothless with the bait of face to face talks. During the same time Trump has lost his Sec. of State, National Security Adviser, and undermined relations with China with on and off trade war talk. Kim Jung-un has done so well that at this point I think most world leaders would just prefer he stay in charge out of fear the govt following a coup could potentially be worse. In that sense Kim Jung-un now has international aligns committed to him as the best option for North Korean. Same turn of events as Assad is Syria. 

On 8/25/2017 at 9:09 AM, Ten oz said:

Something which occured to me during the childish tit for tat between Kim and Trump is that Kim is the one with all the experience. North Korea and U.S. relations have been bad since the end of the Korean War. Kim was raised at his fathers side while North Korea had stand off after stand off with the U.S.. Kim is seasoned and very experience in these tense exchanges. Trump is not. For Trump there is a steep learning curve happening at the moment. We can laugh at Kim's hair cut and point out how terribly he treats his people but at the end of the day he has for more experience than does Trump at North Korean/U.S. relations. Kim is also for more experienced in relations with China, Japan, and South Korea.

 

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Our star quarterback got signed at great cost because he claimed to have a better way to play. He fights with the owners, he fights with the managers, he fights with the players, and he fights with the press. He calls an audible on almost every play, using the stadium loudspeakers. He has a TON of baggage in his personal life that drags the whole team into a negative spotlight almost weekly. He gets sacked, fumbles the snap, and throws a LOT of interceptions when we play certain teams, handing out wins to teams that don't deserve them. We're in danger of losing our spot in the playoffs for the first time in ages. It looks suspicious when he brags about the many ways he personally enriches himself and avoids paying team fees. /American football analogy

Sorry, just trying to figure out better ways to explain why Trump is not to be admired in this situation. He's still selling commemorative coins for the summit he backed out of, and they expect to sell all they made. 

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