swansont Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 That is not correct. We were successfully conned by a world class con artist. A "moron" would not be as successful in his plans. We voted for, and elected, a delusional. You would never recognize a truly world-class con artist as a con-artist. Trump has proven that you can fool some of the people all of the time. I think it's worse than that. I think he has the Dunning-Kruger effect. I think he has a highly exaggerated assessment of his own intelligence and abilities, a superiority that's all in his head. The more you point out his deficiencies, the more convinced he is that he's a genius that can't be understood by lesser beings. He is NOT a self-aware person, and has no mechanism for evaluating his own competence. We all suffer from D-K to some extent once we get away from areas of competence. One of the issues with Trump is the assumption (by him and many of his devout followers) that rich people are smart, simply because they are rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipIngram Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 You would never recognize a truly world-class con artist as a con-artist. Trump has proven that you can fool some of the people all of the time. We all suffer from D-K to some extent once we get away from areas of competence. One of the issues with Trump is the assumption (by him and many of his devout followers) that rich people are smart, simply because they are rich. I've decided over the years that rich people are far more likely to be underhanded and unethical than "smart." I think only a small fraction of the wealthy get that way by playing 100% within the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I've decided over the years that rich people are far more likely to be underhanded and unethical than "smart." I think only a small fraction of the wealthy get that way by playing 100% within the rules. I suspect that they consider slipping through loopholes, being able to bribe and coerce, and hiring lawyers to get them off with small settlements and/or slaps on the wrist to be further evidence of their "smartness". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I've decided over the years that rich people are far more likely to be underhanded and unethical than "smart." I think only a small fraction of the wealthy get that way by playing 100% within the rules. There are three avenues to the heights of wealth: cheating, knowing people, getting lucky. It helps to be smart or a hard worker in addition to one or all of the above, but you need at least one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipIngram Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yes, I agree. Being smart and well-educated raises the chances that you'll have some of that luck. One place I think luck really factors in is stock market investing. In fact, I've have strong doubts that there even is such a thing as a "stock market guru." When you have enough people attempting to succeed at an endeavor, a few of them are going to succeed through blind luck. Then they look like geniuses, and start publishing books and holding seminars and so on. I think that there are things that you can analyze that can help you gain some insight into how successful a particular company will be, but now that everyone and his brother plays the stock market I think those "rational" things may be totally buried by all the speculative gyrations that go on in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yes, I agree. Being smart and well-educated raises the chances that you'll have some of that luck. Yet, the Donald managed to buck that trend, he even managed to bankrupt a casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipIngram Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yeah, it's hard to see how that could happen. Casinos are supposed to be automatic money machines, given how probability and statistics work. But I guess they're still in competition with other casinos, and competition tends to drive profit margins down. Even though your games are sure money makers, you still have to pay for the facilities and the perks that make people want to pick your casino over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yeah, it's hard to see how that could happen. Casinos are supposed to be automatic money machines, given how probability and statistics work. But I guess they're still in competition with other casinos, and competition tends to drive profit margins down. Even though your games are sure money makers, you still have to pay for the facilities and the perks that make people want to pick your casino over others. It looks like he funded his casinos with unsustainable debt and used them as something of a piggy bank for himself, withdrawing money from the business even as it struggled under the burden of the aforementioned debt. [source] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 We all suffer from D-K to some extent once we get away from areas of competence. "To some extent"? I hardly think that explains or justifies what we're seeing here. This man has consistently shown he thought the job would be a piece of cake, and yet has met with failure after failure when he tries to do things under his typical MO. He continues to double down on ignorance and vapidity despite so many experts telling him he's wrong. He makes things up that he later claims are true just because he said them. He lacks a very basic editor/filter that tells "we all" that we might be in over our heads, and that it might be time for a little education, or at least not so much adamancy about the subject. I don't see how it helps to think that we all do this a little, when we're obviously talking about extreme behavior. We all suffer from wanting to chastise the guy who butts ahead of us in line, but that shouldn't be used to justify somebody beating him to death. Or more appropriately, we all lie on occasion, but that shouldn't excuse the extreme magnitude of lies from the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 "To some extent"? I hardly think that explains or justifies what we're seeing here. It's not meant to. It's just that D-K is not just something that only other people suffer from. Trump is massively unqualified for his job, and doesn't realize it. I think that he's also delusional takes him beyond a simple case of D-K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) What Trump and Hitler have in common is a genius at pulling people into their own delusion. They can be totally wacked on a subject, but they have such conviction in their delusion that others join in with zeal. He can say the most rediculous things and his 35% following give him a pass because Trump is a brilliant con artist telling them what they want to hear. Edited June 26, 2017 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 What Trump and Hitler have in common is a genius at pulling people into their own delusion. They can be totally wacked on a subject, but they have such conviction in their delusion that others join in with zeal. He can say the most rediculous things and his 35% following give him a pass because Trump is a brilliant con artist telling them what they want to hear. Come on, let's not start with Guilt by Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Come on, let's not start with Guilt by Association. Indeed, besides they can only rise to the top when peoples fears aren't being addressed, by the less deluded, less arrogant and brighter candidates. Edited June 26, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Indeed, besides they can only rise to the top when peoples fears aren't being addressed, by the less deluded, less arrogant and brighter candidates. I agree. I blame the Democratic leadership as much as the people who voted for Trump for the mess we've found ourselves in. While speaking for the poor and abused is a noble goal, the Democratic leadership ignored much of the rest of the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I agree. I blame the Democratic leadership as much as the people who voted for Trump for the mess we've found ourselves in. While speaking for the poor and abused is a noble goal, the Democratic leadership ignored much of the rest of the electorate. It's like the Democrats are becoming more like Republicans in that they only give lip service to the needs of the poor, and the Republicans are becoming more like 17th century royalists. Let them eat cake and save up for doctor's visits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It's like the Democrats are becoming more like Republicans in that they only give lip service to the needs of the poor, and the Republicans are becoming more like 17th century royalists. Let them eat cake and save up for doctor's visits. Because business' have managed to convince everyone that there can only be one type of a workable economy and it aint socially driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 There's a reason Bernie was so popular, and it wasn't just his policy on healthcare and education and minimum wage. There's a reason Trump received so many millions of votes, and it wasn't just that streaks of racism and jingoism run deeper in the US than we thought. It was the fact that they showed passion. It wasn't a mask. They appeared genuine. Democrats, however, too often come across as reading from a script instead of speaking from the heart and gut. They'll obtain more votes once they stop acting so milquetoast. Less LOLs, more balls... Less snark, more bark... Less whine, more spine. Nobody wants to spend/waste their vote on someone unwilling or incapable of fighting for what's important and doing what it takes to drive the ball across the finish line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 There's a reason Bernie was so popular, and it wasn't just his policy on healthcare and education and minimum wage. There's a reason Trump received so many millions of votes, and it wasn't just that streaks of racism and jingoism run deeper in the US than we thought. It was the fact that they showed passion. It wasn't a mask. They appeared genuine. Democrats, however, too often come across as reading from a script instead of speaking from the heart and gut. They'll obtain more votes once they stop acting so milquetoast. Less LOLs, more balls... Less snark, more bark... Less whine, more spine. Nobody wants to spend/waste their vote on someone unwilling or incapable of fighting for what's important and doing what it takes to drive the ball across the finish line. The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -Yeats Thus has it ever been, and thus shall it ever be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -Yeats Thus has it ever been, and thus shall it ever be. The only difference is where the pendulum points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Our "beloved" democracy. It's lesser evil, I can agree to that but being passionate about it? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Indeed, besides they can only rise to the top when peoples fears aren't being addressed, by the less deluded, less arrogant and brighter candidates. Yes, and Clinton was too stupid to NOT address peoples' fears and to not quickly counter deluded claims. From her experience, she was overqualified to be president, but alas.... a lousy campaigner, with that goofy look of a first grade teacher. Trump was very clever to satisfy a demand, in economic terms, and be a cartoon character. The question is how long until enough republicans get off the crazy train? Edited June 26, 2017 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Yes, and Clinton was too stupid to NOT address peoples' fears and to not quickly counter deluded claims. From her experience, she was overqualified to be president, but alas.... a lousy campaigner, with that goofy look of a first grade teacher. Trump was very clever to satisfy a demand, in economic terms, and be a cartoon character. The question is how long until enough republicans get off the crazy train? Wow, why are you mad at me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Wow, why are you mad at me? Sorry, please explain what you mean? I'm certainly not mad at you or anyone. What leads you to think I am? I am in total agreement with your statement, and was reinforcing your post "people's fears aren't being addressed" by the democrats. Exactly! Edited June 26, 2017 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Sorry, please explain what you mean? I'm certainly not mad at you or anyone. What leads you to think I am? I am in total agreement with your statement, and was reinforcing your post "people's fears aren't being addressed" by the democrats. Exactly! Now youre mad at me. Why? Edit: I hope you saw my post before this edit and scratched your head a little Sory Airbrush - I couldn't resist such a cruel, nut case troll Edited June 26, 2017 by koti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten oz Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Yes, and Clinton was too stupid to NOT address peoples' fears and to not quickly counter deluded claims. From her experience, she was overqualified to be president, but alas.... a lousy campaigner, with that goofy look of a first grade teacher. Trump was very clever to satisfy a demand, in economic terms, and be a cartoon character. People keep saying this but I don't think it is true at all. Hillary Clinton received the second most votes for any Presidential candidate in history. Only Obama in 08' received more. For some perspective Hillary Clinton received nearly 7 million more votes in 16' than John Kerry and Al Gore did in 04' & 00'. Meanwhile Trump only received about 800k more than Bush did in 04' and just 2 million more than 00'. Hillary Clinton did not shrink the base or receive less votes than was expected. Hillary Clinton received 3 million more votes than Trump yet is called a "lousy campaingner" and Trump is celebrated as "clever" based on the outcome alone. It makes no sense to me because it is unprecedented in history what happened. In my opinion the failures were logistical on the ground level and not with Clintons "first grade teacher" look. Repblicans do a better job identifying pockets which will vote against them and making it inconvenient as possible for those people to vote. In many cases how easy it is to get registered and vote in more important than the pageantry. Groups that have to traverse greater distances and wait in longer lines tend to have lower turnout percentages regardless of the appeal of the candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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