The Impeachment of Trump?

[DrP]

It's cutting edge stuff! ;-)

[Airbrush]

A government that gets gutted and then only partially restaffed by in-fighting idiots doesn't always do the best job?

 

It seems to me that acquiring new staff is an uphill battle when most qualified people are unwilling to work for the Trump admin.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Airbrush

[DrP]

How did it even happen though? A phone call across the Atlantic requesting that info be retained for another 24 hours before release to allow for some homeland investigations to take place before committing the details to the public. Then what - they say yes and put the phone down and laugh? They say yes and then get side tracked and forget to tell anyone that the information is classified until we hear more? They say yes, put the phone down, go and tell whoever is responsible for releasing the info to wait and then that person forgets or doesn't care? I don't see how it happens. It says much about the voting masses if they put in these incompetents (and they still support them).

[KipIngram]

By election day there were really no good choices left. But that just shifts the focus to the primaries, so it doesn't really address your point. And I would not impugn Hillary's competence - I see her as an extremely skilled politician. I just question her integrity. Note - I'm not saying that Trump has integrity.

[DrmDoc]

By election day there were really no good choices left. But that just shifts the focus to the primaries, so it doesn't really address your point. And I would not impugn Hillary's competence - I see her as an extremely skilled politician. I just question her integrity. Note - I'm not saying that Trump has integrity.

 

So, are you saying you felt Donald showed more integrity than Hillary during this past election season?

[KipIngram]

No, I most definitely am not saying that. That's why I added that note at the end, specifically so people wouldn't take my post as defending Trump.

[DrP]

So you went for the one you thought had less experience, brains and integrity then? ;-)

 

 

(Sorry - that was trolling a bit, thus the wink... but it has to be asked, lol)

Edited May 24, 2017 by DrP

[KipIngram]

Yes, it was trolling a bit, and I'm not sure I see why it has to be asked - my point was just that we did not have a good choice to make that day. But - it's all good; my skin isn't paper thin. The comedian Jonathan Pie did a great bit right after the election that captures my take on things very nicely. I'll dig up the link if someone asks. And he is a liberal person, so it's not some conservative hate tirade. But I think he hit the nail precisely on the head.

[DrP]

Yea - I like that Jonathan Pie too.

[DrmDoc]

No, I most definitely am not saying that. That's why I added that note at the end, specifically so people wouldn't take my post as defending Trump.

 

Although I didn't view your comment particularly as support for Trump, it invoked my curiosity as to whether you felt at some point that Donald had more integrity that Hillary. There was never an occasion that I questioned Hillary's integrity more than Donald's, but that's because of my familiarity with the details of both their histories. Some of us relied on media coverage this past election rather than their own investigation of their histories. I was wondering whether your opinion of Hillary's integrity was lower than Donald's and, if so, why?

Edited May 24, 2017 by DrmDoc

[KipIngram]

No, I really don't think anyone gets to be as rich as Trump is while being a person of impeccable integrity. That said, I was not familiar with Trump's history; it was just a feeling I had. I don't know how to explain the difference in my perceptions of them - it's just that at that particular time I was more bothered by things I'd heard about Hillary than things I'd heard about Trump. Plus I got this feeling from Hillary that she felt like she "deserved" to win somehow, and sense of entitlement almost always puts me off. So the decision really had a strong emotional component.

 

Trump said a couple of things during the campaign that did appeal to me - foremost among them being the notion of using a stiff tax to penalize businesses that outsource jobs from America overseas. But of course that didn't get followed through on, so it was just another politician telling another lie during the campaign. I had some hopes he'd come in and do some right things, but he's disappointing on every front.

 

So I really don't want to get into a details debate over how I made my voting decision. It was an emotion-based decision; let's just leave it at that. And I am thoroughly disgusted with how Trump's handling things, so I'm definitely not in the Trump supporter column.

 

It's been a long, long time since we had a President that I really felt great about.

[DrP]

I liked your last guy. He done some good things, like turn the economy around a bit, provide a safety net for the poor if they get sick... that sort of thing. Shame it's been repealed with nothing better to replace it.

[DrmDoc]

No, I really don't think anyone gets to be as rich as Trump is while being a person of impeccable integrity. That said, I was not familiar with Trump's history; it was just a feeling I had. I don't know how to explain the difference in my perceptions of them - it's just that at that particular time I was more bothered by things I'd heard about Hillary than things I'd heard about Trump. Plus I got this feeling from Hillary that she felt like she "deserved" to win somehow, and sense of entitlement almost always puts me off. So the decision really had a strong emotional component.

 

Trump said a couple of things during the campaign that did appeal to me - foremost among them being the notion of using a stiff tax to penalize businesses that outsource jobs from America overseas. But of course that didn't get followed through on, so it was just another politician telling another lie during the campaign. I had some hopes he'd come in and do some right things, but he's disappointing on every front.

 

So I really don't want to get into a details debate over how I made my voting decision. It was an emotion-based decision; let's just leave it at that. And I am thoroughly disgusted with how Trump's handling things, so I'm definitely not in the Trump supporter column.

 

It's been a long, long time since we had a President that I really felt great about.

 

Although I relied on fact based reasoning, I think a lot of us made decisions this past elections based on our gut feelings. Perhaps in doing so, one positive outcome might be the wisdom of knowing those feelings don't always serve us well during election season. I appreciate your candor.

 

I liked your last guy. He done some good things, like turn the economy around a bit, provide a safety net for the poor if they get sick... that sort of thing. Shame it's been repealed with nothing better to replace it.

 

Yeah, I liked our last guy too.

Edited May 24, 2017 by DrmDoc

[Delta1212]

I'm not really a fan of the "there were no good choices on Election Day" argument, because even if you don't think there were any good choices, there was clearly a better choice.

 

I don't want to harp on this too much, because at this point the details of the particular case in question are rather moot. Things happened as they happened and we have to deal with it.

 

However, I think this election holds a rather valuable lesson for all of us going forward into future years, but it's a lesson that's not going to stick properly if we fail to acknowledge the choices that got us here, even when they aren't especially comfortable.

 

I did not vote for Trump, but I also kept quiet with various people about exactly what I thought of Trump as a candidate in order to keep the peace and because I thought it ultimately wouldn't matter in the end.

 

Now I hear a lot of "I don't like what's happening, but there just weren't any good choices!" from most of those people, and I wish I'd said something sooner.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Delta1212

[KipIngram]

Hopefully sooner enough to change the *choices*. Both of them. Seriously - seek out that Jonathan Pie video and give it a listen. It his response to his studio cameraman (well, his fictional character's studio cameraman - "Jonathan Pie" is just an invented character) the day after the election, as to whether he's surprised at the outcome or not.

[Phi for All]

From the professor at American University who has predicted the winner of each presidential election since 1984, Trump will be impeached:

 

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/24/listen-they-probably-are-going-to-find-impeachable-offenses-predicts-professor-on-donald-trump/

I do think it will happen. I think there’s enough there that they probably are going to find impeachable offenses. Whether you’ll get a conviction from a Senate is much harder, because that requires a two-thirds vote. And let’s not discount the possibility that Donald Trump takes the Richard Nixon route, [saying] “I don’t need all this aggravation.” If he resigns the presidency, it’s not as if he goes to some shack in the woods. He goes back to his billionaire lifestyle. He can claim, “Look, I prevented Hillary Clinton from the Presidency. I gave you Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. I’ve done all these great things, and I’ve resigned for the good of the country and I still got my Twitter phone.”

[KipIngram]

From the professor at American University who has predicted the winner of each presidential election since 1984, Trump will be impeached:

 

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/24/listen-they-probably-are-going-to-find-impeachable-offenses-predicts-professor-on-donald-trump/

 

Great. Then we'll have Pence, who seems to be very strongly driven by his religion, and more than ok with imposing those values on everyone else. Can't say I'm a huge fan of that either. Hopefully there are adequate checks and balances to keep that from being too severe.

[Delta1212]

 

Great. Then we'll have Pence, who seems to be very strongly driven by his religion, and more than ok with imposing those values on everyone else. Can't say I'm a huge fan of that either. Hopefully there are adequate checks and balances to keep that from being too severe.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure whether to be happy at the thought of an impeachment or not. Is Lawful Evil better or worse than Chaotic Stupid?

[KipIngram]

Right. We'd just have to hope that Congress wouldn't back him up on anything too extreme.

[dimreepr]

Johnathan Pie's views are comically simplistic; try this

Edited May 24, 2017 by dimreepr

[iNow]

I really don't think anyone gets to be as rich as Trump is while being a person of impeccable integrity.

Warren Buffet comes to mind, and he's far richer, but I take your point.

 

 

I liked your last guy. He done some good things, like turn the economy around a bit, provide a safety net for the poor if they get sick... that sort of thing. Shame it's been repealed with nothing better to replace it.

Slight correction: It hasn't been repealed yet, but boy oh boy, the GOP sure wants to (the public just isn't behind them... they want better healthcare, not this monstrosity we're seeing move through House and Senate).

 

 

Great. Then we'll have Pence, who seems to be very strongly driven by his religion, and more than ok with imposing those values on everyone else. Can't say I'm a huge fan of that either.

You and me both. Unless Pence gets caught up in the investigation, too... But then we get Paul Ryan who never seems to have plans where the numbers work without magic unrealistic assumptions. The poor would take a beating if he had his way.

 

 

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/24/15685760/ahca-cbo-score-new

The health care legislation that the House actually passed at the beginning of May would lead to 23 million more Americans being uninsured in 10 years, versus what would be expected under Obamacare, according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office.

That report was released today.

[Airbrush]

In case Trump gets impeached, here is the order of succession:

 

Pence, Paul Ryan, Orin Hatch, Rex Tillerson, Steven Mnuchin, James Mattis, Jeff Sessions, Ryan Zinke, Sonny Perdue, Wilbur Ross

 

Even Ann Coulter has lost confidence in Trump.

 

"Ann Coulter indicated on Sunday that she was poised to give up her support for the president, even before The Washington Post reported that he had leaked classified information to Russian officials.

 

“I think everyone who voted for him knew his personality was grotesque, it was the issues,” she told The Daily Caller. “Boy, things don’t look good,” she said."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/coulter-disappointment-donald-trump_us_591a4014e4b07d5f6ba578e4?iq&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009&utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_1709553&ncid=txtlnkusaolp00001376

Edited May 24, 2017 by Airbrush

[Ten oz]

I'm not really a fan of the "there were no good choices on Election Day" argument, because even if you don't think there were any good choices, there was clearly a better choice.

 

 

The argument that both Clinton and Trump were flawed was intended to give Trump cover and create apathy. There was simply no making Trump appear decent and honest. Only way to get Clinton and Trump to appear anywhere near equal was to lower the bar.

[Endy0816]

Guy is horrible. Gave away the presence of two of our submarines near Korea. I guess he never read the "loose lips sink ships" memo.

[StringJunky]

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure whether to be happy at the thought of an impeachment or not. Is Lawful Evil better or worse than Chaotic Stupid?

Better to stay in the frying pan than jump in the fire.

Guy is horrible. Gave away the presence of two of our submarines near Korea. I guess he never read the "loose lips sink ships" memo.

Hilary's not so pristine having her own server. I think there would have been a 'something-gate' with her as well if she'd won. Obama's like our queen compared to those two, on reflection.