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Of course I do, John. But do you also accept that there's no logical route from 'deluded or lying nut-job on FOX News' to 'all Conservatives are insane' ?

Well some Frenchmen would argue that Napoleon WAS same, why would it make him insane to claim so ? ( was that a bad joke, if so, my apologies )

Neither delusional or dishonest is in any definition of insane. Neither does he represent ALL who label themselves 'conservative'.

Completely understand, swansont. It was meant more as a joke ( why does no-one get my sense of humor ? ). I just like poking fun at Sean Connery. Like Will Farrel in the 'Jeopardy' skit on SNL.

What do you mean this isn't a democracy, swansont ? I just painted a little Hitler mustache on your picture of Sean Connery !

Oh, that's why politicians are always screwing us.

It seems that since a few 'loony tunes' characters of the American Conservative party initiated the Tea Party movement, it has become fashionable in the media and amongst people who consider themselves 'intelligentsia' ( better than the unwashed masses ), to put down ALL conservatives based on the thinking of a few. Even though I would wager that quite a few of you have at least a few conservative traits. Like cradn727 has stated, its just a matter of degree. What is the cut-off point for considering someone insane John ? Is it when 40% of your group believe in something illogical ? Or is it 70% ? And who determines this cut-off point ? You ? ( I've read a lot of your posts over the last couple of yrs. and seen you get a little 'crazy' ) And thank you Overtone for proving my point. When you can't make a valid argument, just call the opposition a jackass, or the opposing political point of view insane. How 'morally high ground' of you !

What I would get worked up over , is the fact that overtone waits until I've left the discussion to attack points I made, not having had the ba*ls to it before like you Tenoz , and JohnC, While your political leanings are not a race that you are born into, do you doubt that as a group , black Americans have a certain set of beliefs based on their environment and upbringing ? And how exactly are you born into a religion ? Because your parents were ? What if your parents leaned towards certain politics ? And what of people who change religion ? Are you that obtuse, overtone, that you don't see these as groups or demographics with a large number of common shared beliefs ? Just like Right and Left are groups with a core of shared beliefs, and some that are not so universal, but more local or even singular. The examples you cited are my examples and I am neither conservative or American. But I do have integrity, unlike what you demonstrated. Next time address me directly in your post and I'll come back ( as I have ). No need to wait till I've announced my intentions of quitting the topic.

My apologies for the mis-statement, Acme. The holidays ARE insane; people who take/observe them ARE NOT. See the difference ? Sorry again. I just couldn't resist one last poke.

The only part of your post which relates to my objections follows the word 'because' in the 4th line. In case you still don't understand my objections, this has nothing to do with right wing principles. You don't like them, and there's quite a few I don't like. So ATTACK THOSE PRINCIPLES, not the people by calling them names. Incidentally, this is the same principle the moderators always urge us to use ( attack the idea, not the person ), or are you gonna start calling everyone whose post gets moved to the Speculations Forum insane also. And this applies to you too, Tenoz, remember, an idea can only be right or wrong, only a person can be insane, So you are not labelling the idea, you are labelling the person, and I think that's wrong.. I will discuss right versus left ideology with anyone ( remember, I am Canadian, our Conservatives are more left wing than American Democrats), but did not read the book Acme wanted me to, because of the title which slights half the American population. Any time a discussion discends into name calling, it is an attempt to stifle further discussion by taking away the oppositin's right to have an opinion. That is my opinion, I hope you respect my opinion as much as I do yours, John, and I will not be saying anything further on the matter ( but I'll still check in on further developements in this thread, yes, I'm a masochist ).

Still don't agree with you. Name calling is name calling and belongs in a schoolyard. I ( and I know you do also ) expect better in an intelligent discussion. I'll let you guys get back to labeling people. That's always helped.

Really Willie ? I like some conservative ideas, yet I don't fit into any of the stereotypes you just mentioned. I also like a lot of liberal ideas. And I dislike quite a few from both camps. I suspect there's an awful lot of people like me. Where do we fit in your world view ?What're you gonna do ? Label us also, and call us confused ?

Did the part about the beliefs a few Muslims have, or the beliefs a few black Americans have, totally go over your head ? A belief is an opinion they have, just like Conservatism, and painting everyone with the same broad brush is still wrong.

But again you are generalizing. Not all on the right have those beliefs. As a matter of fact, there is a significant number on the left who hold Creationism in high esteem, just as an example. So what's the magic number for painting everyone in the group with the same brush ? Is it 10%, 30%, 50%+1, or what ? When does an unfair generalization become unfair ? And when are you gonna start applying it to Muslims and black Americans, and Immigrants , and homosexuals, and women, and the elderly, etc. etc.

I'm gonna be an ass just to prove my point... If I was to say ALL muslims are insane because they believe in jihad and blowing themselves up to get virgins in heaven, I'd be an ignorant idiot, and you, Tenoz, along with JohnC., Acme and others would be the first to jump all over me. The truth is only some act that way because of the way they interpret their beliefs. If I was to say ALL black Americans are insane because they aspire to be gangstas and drug dealers, who support anarchy and riot and loot at every opportunity, I'd also be very wrong, and again I'd hear it from you guys. The truth is only a few of them believe that revenge on 'whitey' can make up for the past wrongings and current disadvantages. I could continue with other groups, but I'd be wrong generalizing about them also. So I ask you, why is it OK to label a certain demographic, and consider them insane, for their beliefs. If you wanna argue that those beliefs are wrong, that's fine, I'll even agree with a lot of those complaints ( just like I'd agree with a lot of the complaints against the left, they have their faults too ), but labeling them insane is an insult ( to almost half the American people ), and that has been my objection right fro the start of this topic

And what exactly about political reality is sane ???

" their distinguishing feature is that the subject believes something which normal people wouldn't believe" So you and others like Acme have decided what is 'normal' and sane, or worse yet, society labels a group of people as NOT 'normal' and then slowly starts taking away their rights, until they eventually get sent to gas chambers ( I apologize for the extremism to make a quick point ). Sounds like the worst kind of discrimination, that against differing thought and opinion, it could certainly never happen !! Oh, wait, yes it did ! Attacking an idea is one thing ( and perfectly legitimate, we do it here all the time ), attacking a group of people who hold the same ideas by 'labelling' them, is plain wrong and discriminatory.

I'm glad you understand, "old man in a rock n' roll band" ( you must be close to my age to remember 'Fly at Night' ) ( and maybe Canadian ?)

Acme definitely has preconceived notions about the right and conservatives ( approx. half American population ), chadn737. But he's not all bad. He likes Chilliwack after all ( the band not the city ).

Back in the old days, real men ( and women ) learned processor specific assembly. I could probably still write some Zilog Z80 code.

This will be my last comment on this matter Acme. I relise you are the OP and set the rules of engagement, and unless you get your way, you will 'take your ball and go home'. Great way to win a discussion, stifle opposing views. I didn't read your linked study because I can't even stomach its title. I find it offensive ( but hey, no law against being offensive ) and bordering on hateful against almost half the american population. It seems to me you want left wing idealogues to discuss a leftwing study that calls people with opposing views insane. And as I've stated before, I'm Canadian where even our Conservatives are more left wing than your Democrats, however, I like some conservative principles as well as some liberal principles. I especially like the one about tolerance and keeping an open mind to other people's ideas. I guess that means I don't have a 'highly compartmentalized mind'. I also have a university degree in Physics, so I don't think I can be accused of illogical thinking ( check me out on the Physics forum ). As for ethnocentrism, I am an immigrant to Canada,having been born and lived some of my childhood elsewhere. But hey, maybe your studies only apply to American Conservatives ( although other countries have been mentioned ). It seems to me , hoever,that if democrats had announced English courses, help obtaining diplomas and health checkups to Hispanics, one of the most disadvantaged demographics in the US, you would have fallen all over yourself congratulating them on a job well done. But since its Republicans doing it,they must have some ulterior motive,as if both parties don't try to court voters. I believe that's covered by double standards, hypocrisy, blindness to yourself and even some profound ethocentrism.

Correct me if I'm wrong, John, but I think republicans have raised taxes more than democrats in the last 20 yrs or so. I'm not 100% sure as I'm not american after all. Bush Sr. IIRC asked us to read his lips. Raising taxes is a necessary evil. I am canadian after all. We are overtaxed and our consrvatives are more liberal than your democrats. My problem is with borrowing. When servicing the debt becomes one of the largest expenses in the budget, higher than health care, higher than education, higher than defense and higher than social programs, then you and Acme have to explain what YOU would start cutting.

As I've often mentioned, stupidity runs rampant in all types of governments, wether republican/consrvative or democrat/liberal. It is only you that seeks to assign those labels to stupid behaviour, that one ideology is much better than the other, and that approx. half of the american population is insane and undeserving of an apinion. You're a little full of yourself, aren't you ? And you're not surprised that I don't mention cuts ? Re-read my posts as well as your own and tell me where I've mentioned cuts, or where you've asked me about cuts ? Have you simply imagined most of this discussion and not bothered to read anyone else's posts ? And while we're on the subject, scientific psycological work is a misnomer. There is very little that's scientific about psycology. And if you were a scientist you'd know why.

As I said I understand where you're coming from Phi for All and agree. And sure a household budjet is vastly different from a national economy, iNow, and its understandable that sometimes exceptions have to be made. However when you are in trouble with your spending you don't ask for a higher limit on your credit card ! The examples of nations who haven't learned this lesson are plentiful... Argentina, Greece , Portugal, Spain, Italy etc. How are thir economies doing ? The US has raised its borrowing limit to avoid defaulting My own province, Ontario, has a higher debt than California

Same policies as apply to your household. Live within your means ! Don't live large and saddle your kids with debt.