MigL

What about the links to hypertension/heart disease and diabetes. Is it simply the fact that older people , with compromised immune systems, are also much more likely to have high blood pressure and diabetes ? Or is it likely, at least for hypertension, that common drugs used to treat it, raise levels of the enzyme ACE2. Both, blood pressure medication and SARS-COV2 target cellular ACE2 receptors of cells found in alveoli and small bronchial tubes where O2/CO2 is exchanged. But then, what of Diabetes and heart disease ? ( or am I displaying symptoms of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing", A Pope )

D Raoult has conducted trials... "After two studies involving 24 and 80 patients, Raoult presented Macron with a third study carried out on 1,061 patients, but with no control group, of whom he claimed 973 were cured in 10 days. Experts said the lack of a control group meant the results were meaningless." And D Raoult is convinced he has a 'cure'... “I don’t care what others think,” he told his local newspaper La Provence. “I’m not an outsider, I’m the one who is the furthest ahead.”

That is usually the point of cover-ups. But it has changed our response. No-one took it seriously at first, because China, the epicenter of infection, did not seem very worried about it. If our understanding hadn't fundamentally changed, and the gravity was understood at the same time as China did, almost all nations would have stopped flights and closed borders with China, as China itself isolated Wuhan province.

So does D Raoult, the French scientist that President E Macron has placed his faith in.

But they should not give them a pass when they fumble badly, either. Many of us will be skeptical of this report because of the source ( Fox originally ) https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/2-wuhan-whistleblowers-missing-months-after-helping-expose-coronavirus-outbreak-activists-say/ar-BB12HUcu?ocid=msedgntp but if there's even an ounce of truth to it, China has a lot to answer for, and the cover up may be larger than anyone imagined.

Even French President E Macron is calling for expedited trials of Hydroxychloroquine ( in combination with antibiotic Azythromycin ) after discussions with a French scientist who champions its use, D Raoult, as a 'cure'. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/macron-calls-for-clinical-trials-of-controversial-coronavirus-cure/ar-BB12HAEi?ocid=msedgntp Apparently the treatment/cure is also being pushed by J Bolsonaro. Yet D Trump ( however ignorant/misguided ) is the only one being accused of trying to profit, and having monetary interests, in the treatment. Do all three have large amounts invested in this product, or, is it a case of only seeing ( vilifying ) what we want to see ?

Sure but I would be the one to criticize the Canadian Government. I would not expect the Indian Government to criticize the Canadian one, JC. How does the saying go ? " When you live in a glass house, don't throw stones." That is what China should be taking away from this.

So they can deny they messed up because of incompetence and political meddling in their reporting structure ? Of course, they have almost the same excuse. Their political leaders are idiots, and they meddle in things they don't understand. Why apply different standards to the US and China ?

I have read that the funding freeze is for 6 months. I have also read that the US has already made its contributions for the 2 year funding cycle. ( which is at odds with CharonY's claim that the US is behind in their funding ) That being said it is extremely short-sighted; you don't stop funding in the middle of a pandemic. After the problem has been dealt with, you analyze what went wrong, and prepare for next time. But D Trump has an election to worry about, this year, and a lot of blame to shift. The US has certainly made many mistakes in the Covid-19 response, and this could turn out to be a major one. But so has China, and the WHO. China should not be so critical of other nation's stupid actions, lest it be held accountable for its own.

Defence is a national edeavor, Dimreepr. The WHO is a worldwide, multinational organization. Vast difference. China should be the last to complain about the situation the world finds itself in.

I see that this has already been mentioned in the Political Humor thread. President D Trump has announced the temporary cut to US funding of the WHO, in response to alleged withholding of information regarding the Covid-19 pandemic, and parroting of Chinese official 'talking points ( spin ? ). No doubt he will be criticized by many for this action, and it does seem rather shortsighted, to say the least. He is even being criticized by China on the matter. Given that the US is by far, the largest contributor to the WHO, contributing 22 %, almost twice as much as China and three times the amount of the next highest contributor, isn't China being hypocritical ? Maybe they should do as the US has done for so many years, and put their money where their mouth is.

Hypothetical question... Lets assume D Trump really ( I mean really ) messes up the Covid-19 response and mitigation efforts ( by delaying response to the crisis, standing down too soon, pushing for dangerously wrong medications, etc. ), and a very large number of people die, as a result, say several hundred thousand. Could he be charged, by Americans, at the World Court, for crimes against humanity ? Maybe after he's out of office ? Or is that a dangerous precedent to set ?

Don't be sorry. I was asking in case you wanted to make it a threesome...

You two wanna get a room ?

You think its from being isolated ? And they just need a hug ?

So, it is not the Constitution ( as JC suggested ), nor the checks and balances ( as CharonY and Swansont suggest ), that are to blame. Rather, as many of us have suggested for some time, the campaign financing, and lobbying, that are out of control. Will any American politician ever have the ba*ls ( or popularity ) to suggest reform ?

Back in the good old days ( our time ), people had to get wasted on some pretty powerful drugs to experience these sorts of delusions, John. It seems, these days, some people are like that normally.

Huuge ( say it like Trump ) problem with American politics; it's all about the money and the influence. Certainly not about the people, or their well being. It is big business, with their paid for influence, that are pushing D Trump to re-open the country, and get the economy moving again. If it kills a hundred thousand people, no big deal, at least big business will have gotten a return on their investment. I really can't believe D Trump is that stupid to push for early return to 'normality'. If the death toll gets too high he can kiss his chances for re-election goodbye

Only in America... Every other country in the world has their various political parties working together with, and for, the people, during this pandemic. The US is more divided than ever. I thought this was supposed to be about saving lives, not political posturing, the blame game, and further polarization. You guys need a better quality of politicians. I bet George W Bush is looking at the mess President D Trump is making of the pandemic response, and saying "Wow; and they said I was stupid ?"

For those of us ( like me ) who are not up to speed on Virology, this thread, from another forum I frequent, seems t be a good beginner tutorial... https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1443947 Perhaps CharonY can have a look at it, and answer any questions we noobs might have. ( or make any corrections as needed )

Maybe my bias is showing too. It seems that J Trudeau's ( PM of Canada ) handling of the crisis has earned him an approval rating of 75 %, while the Ontario Premier is in the middle 80s, and the Quebec Premier has an approval rating in the 90s ( ! ). President D Trump, on the other hand, has dropped down to an approval rating of about 40 %, with over 50 % disapproving of his performance. ( according to Yahoo News ) If this lasts till the fall, he's toast.

The Big Bang is not a moment, but a model of the evolution since that 'moment'; the point at which we can no longer regress in time because our theories don't work anymore ( usually taken as the Planck era ). We only have information about our observable universe, and know that it is finite. What is outside is causally disconnected and cannot be known. It could be infinite, and our 'universe' developed from a small part of an infinite, hot dense state. And from these small parts, infinitely many 'universes' developed. But then all these small parts would not all be in causal contact with each other, could not share information, and might lead to totally different universes. But there are many other possibilities. That was one of the purposes of the original inflationary model. Before inflation, all parts of it were in causal contact ( they are not now ) and so homogeneity and isotropy were ensured.

Is it accurate to say that China has larger numbers of asymptomatic cases as opposed to Western experience with symptomatic and fatal cases ? Several years ago, in Walkerton, Ontario, several people died from contaminated drinking water. The saying at the time was " If Mexicans lived in Walkerton, no one would even get diarrhea ", and certainly not die. The increase in allergies in Western societies has been correlated to our 'cleanliness' ( general contaminants and food prep. and separation ), as has mononucleosis. Could the fact that we are not subject to the close living conditions and resultant lack of hygienic conditions, have made our immune system much less robust ( like muscle atrophy, if you don't use it, you lose it ) and more prone to serious outcomes, or even death, when others ( China, Korea Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand etc ) are not affected as severely ?

I don't see that as damning evidence, Koti. The US has provided start-up seed money to a lot of companies involved in the manufacture of vaccines. And it is the largest contributor to the WHO. How much money could D Trump personally make by 'pushing' this treatment option ? The patent on it has expired and it can be manufactured by any company, and while the original company to introduce it, is one of the largest pharmaceuticals in the world, Hydroxychloroquine is a very small part of their business. When you couple that, with costs under a dollar per pill for the generic, how big a boost will Sanofi actually see in its stock ? Also D Trump doesn't actually own stock in the company, but Sanofi is a component of a lot of Mutual funds, which he probably has in his portfolio. I think you guys are overplaying his greed, and underplaying his stupidity.

apparently, after 76 days, Wuhan reopened its roads and airport today. Operations at the airport resumed with 271 scheduled flights, 140 arrivals, and 131 departures. No international or hi-density ( wide body planes ) flights. Is that a light I see, at the end of this long tunnel ?