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Religion

Forum for the discussion and examination of the rational foundations of religion.

Philosophy and Religion Rules

Participation in the philosophy and religion forums on SFN is considered a privilege. To maintain a reasonable standard of debate, certain rules must be established. Members who violate these rules despite warnings from staff will no longer be allowed to participate in the religion forums.

Philosophy/religion forum rules:

  1. Never make it personal.
    1. Disagreements about beliefs should never be in the form of attacks on the believers. This isn't a place to air grievances. Civility and respect towards other members are needed here even more than elsewhere on SFN, even when you disagree.
    2. Disagreements about beliefs should never be interpreted as attacks on the believers, even when they are. If you can't handle having your beliefs questioned, you don't belong here. If you feel insulted, that does not excuse you from rule 1.a.
  2. Don't use attacks on evolution, the big bang theory, or any other widely acknowledged scientific staple as a means of proving religious matters. Using scientific reasoning is fine, but there are certain religious questions that science cannot answer for you.
  3. Do not post if you have already determined that nothing can change your views. This is a forum for discussion, not lectures or debates.



Of course, the general SFN forum rules also apply. If a member consistently violates the general rules in the religion forum (for example, by being consistently off-topic), their access to the religion forum may be revoked.

These conditions are not up for debate, and they must be adhered to by all members. If you don't understand them, ask for advice from a moderator before posting.

  1. If I believed that this present life were just a brief test to determine whether I would be admitted after death to another life of eternal bliss, it is inconceivable to me that I would ever commit a sin, since it would simply be foolish. Yet I hear Christians all the time say that they were 'weak' or 'tempted' on a given occasion to sin, and so did so, thus jeopardizing their own rational best interest in enjoying infinite bliss for the sake of a brief moment of trivial indiscretion. But since sane people are never tempted to bend down and touch the third rail of a subway because they are tempted by a piece of candy they spot lying there, I would assume that no sane Ch…

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  2. Started by divagreen,

    Was Dawkins being dismissive or cruel with this response? I am curious as to what other people think.

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  3. Started by rigney,

    Received this email from my oldest son Dave; a couple of days ago. Some years back, 1993, Dave was retiring from the Navy. My wife, Glenna and I went to LA for the graduation? Ahem!!, Took him over twenty years to get his diploma, but he got 'er done. A party recognizing him and his buddie's accomplishments was held behind the C.P.O. barracks. Officers and enlisted men had put it on to honor the retirees. I met Kenny Munds that day. He, Dave and a couple of their buddies were playing some music for us. Impressed! Yes. Not so much by the group itself, but Kennys voice. He was doing drug, booze and rehab all rolled into one at the time, but was begining to understanding ag…

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  4. Started by divagreen,

    There are some terms that are used in the religious forum that I think need clarification in order to facilitate better communication. Theism, ...believes in a supernatural moral agent/creator. Atheism, ...does not believe in a supernatural moral agent/creator. Pantheism, ...does not believe in a supernatural moral agent/creator but rather believes that "god" is in everything and composites the Universe. Gnosticism, ...claims we can know whether god exists or not. Agnosticism, ...claims we can not know whether god exists or not. So when we use these terms what do we mean? And what do we mean by "god"? If the term "god" is defined by what we revere, …

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  5. What would happen to the religions of the world if we were to find extra terrestrial life on other planets?

  6. The following was posted on another thread and I was so intrigued by it that I felt is was worth its own thread. Agreed. However, in the absence of proof we must go with what is reasonable. However, here are a few of my favorite proofs: Miracle of the Sun- could 70,000 people be lying or insane? Saint's (e.g. Padre Pio) bodies which have not decayed Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano along with Shroud of Turin- both have AB blood, an uncommon type (but it is not super uncommon in Palestine) just a coincidence? And Finally: The fact that atheists always say that God cannot be proven despite these proofs (+many many more) AND the fact that St. Anslem's onto…

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  7. Started by rigney,

    Tired after searchings for a full month, the Angel fell into a deep sleep. In doing so he dreamed. Why me Lord? What can I accomplish that you have not already done? And God spake unto the winged one. "Find me some new dry land down there on earth Angel". Land that has not yet been desecrated by the heathen horde?? And of which faction of the horde do you refer Lord? Any of them Angel, you know where I'm going with this? Relieved, the Angel spent the rest of the night in peaceful slumber. In heaven the next morning he reports to God that there were two such places on earth that had not as yet been raped, ravaged or pillaged. Good! and what are we gonna call them, asks God…

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  8. Christ tells us that the two greatest commandments are based on Love and that everything else stems from it. Mt 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, " `YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, `YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." So - My question is, can we, as Catholics and as Christians, trace every rule back to this "rule of Love"? Can you think of any rule that is not traceable to the "La…

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  9. Just curios to know what you all think will prove or disprove that God is really out there. Science? Or not... Ideas..

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  10. I've got an over-active childlike imagination, but would like to put a science-fiction slant on the existence of God. It's not intended as anything blasphemous, so if you feel it might offend please don't read it. However, I hope that somewhere, however fictitious it may be, it marries up and can explain in some daft way the possibility of the existence of a creator within the realms of science. Personally I believe in God as just an existence we can't explain as humans. I believe he or something else created the Big Bang and he created life on Earth and its evolution. Maybe planned or perhaps unplanned and for a reason we can only speculate on. Maybe some…

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  11. I just listened to this pretty interesting song called Stockholm Syndrome. Check it out: http://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_videos/540523?sel_song_id=4256997&autoplay=1 For context, Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological concept whereby hostages express positive feelings for their captors. It's a very interesting phenomenon, and I notice some rather marked parallels with defense of religion and religious belief. Experts have concluded that the intensity, not the length of the incident, combined with a lack of physical abuse more likely will create favorable conditions for the development of Stockholm syndrome. The following are view…

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  12. Started by rigney,

    Why is there such venom and seemingly overt hatred displayed when a person denounces their belief in any religion, or a God in this forum? Can anyone be that wise, or is atheism the answer to 98% of the worlds problems? Being an agnostic, I don't want anyone destroying my last possible chance of escape, should things go wrong. Since I don't believe a more enlightened scientific view of our world is the cause of such a mind set, would someone kindly explain it to me.

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  13. Started by Phi for All,

    What are your views on atheism? And if you are an atheist, please let us know why you feel it's the right conclusion for you.

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  14. Started by pioneer,

    I started this topic in the religious forum because it is something both religion and atheism approach differently and both often fall short. In a symbolic sense, the animal is natural instincts, not just in terms of natural instinctive functionality, but also in terms of natural limits. The beast is a human modification of the natural animal, which through conscious or unconscious contrivance and/or learning either distorts the natural functionality and/or exceeds it. Religion is aware of the beast and might at times restrict the natural animal to avoid the beast. The atheist is aware of the natural animal, through science, and to make sure the natural animal gains …

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  15. Started by alex sam,

    Amazing Islam Miracles My link what do you say ?

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  16. Started by mulreay,

    The idea that God exists is not only profound but necessary. I have spent the last 31 yrs proving that 1 + 1 = 2 I now need to explain that a person died on the cross to save me.. or he sat under a tree and starved himself for me to see the light. Of course he did and I should be ashamed to think otherwise. I will keep the fight going as long is necessary. Of course there is a god and he wants me to kill the non believers why would he not.. he is after all merciful. Lets all bow down to the god that is the biggest hypocrite going. You make me laugh. Your attitude disgusts me. Sorry to bring this up but it bothers me.

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  17. Started by tomgwyther,

    Of late there have been many topics concerning the nature and existence of a supernatural deity whom either has exerted or still does exert some influence over the universe and untimately ourselfs. Most recently, pictures set to music and the behaviour of aquatic mammals have been put forth as assertions or hypotheses to support the idea of divine intervention. In the interests of scientific endeavour and to move such hypotheses forward - past the first hurdle - I would like to ask that those making such claims, or putting forward ideas of this nature, plus choose which deity they are refering to. I have compiled a list of major deistic figures to help people to move t…

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  18. Started by Caleb,

    I was reading through one of my chemistry books, and I stumbled across these several paragraphs: "You see, in order for all atoms except hydrogen-1 to exist, we must have neutrons. Well, it turns out that the neutron is just slightly more massive than the proton. It's a good thing, too. Nuclear chemistry experiments indicate that the neutron must be more massive than the proton, or it would no exist! Calculations indicate that if the mass difference between the neutron and the proton were changed by as little as 0.2%, all neutrons would spontaneously decay into protons." "As we have already noted, protons are positively charged while electrons are negatively char…

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  19. Top Scientists Comments on Scientific Miracles in the Quran The Qur'an has attracted a lot of attention because some of its verses discuss scientific facts that were discovered only recently. Shaykh `Abd al-Majid al-Zindani did an excellent job by inviting leading scientists from all over the world and asking them about scientific facts present in the Qur'an and authentic hadith. Keith L. Moore Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto. Distinguished embryologist and the author of several medical textbooks, including Clinically Oriented Anatomy (3rd Edition) and The Developing Human (5th Edition, with T.V.N. …

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  20. Started by Moontanman,

    Is Revelations 16:8 a prediction by the Bible of global warming?

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  21. Started by Marat,

    In the days before Darwin, it used to be stylish to offer proofs of God's existence by noting how beautifully designed the world was or how humanely everything in the natural world was structured. But we could develop an inverse physico-theology which would offer proofs of God's non-existence from how evil the world is, and especially from the evil coincidences in its design which seem possible only because they are designed by an intelligent but profoundly evil creator. The result of these proofs would be either that there would be further evidence for the non-existence of a good God, or positive evidence for the existence of a Gnostic, evil God, both of which would de…

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  22. Started by alex sam,

    Earth Layers It is a Miracle of the Quran and the Prophetic Tradition. We're going to see the compatibility between science and our religion…. Probing the depths of the Earth and taking pains to uncover the secrets of its internal structure and composition, scientists came to realize that the old myths about the Earth are scientifically baseless. Scientists in the twentieth century decided that the Earth consists of only three layers. Having discovered the sphericity of the Earth, they suggested that this sphere comprises three parts; the core, the crust which is very thin compared to the total volume of the Earth and a third layer in between the two ca…

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  23. Started by Klaplunk,

    Please eat, + Please drink, - Please breed, x Please don't, / I do and I don't, when I feel like doing, I do, when I feel like don'ting, I don't Thanks God, yeah i'll have a drink. and ye ye, thanks I'll start cooking, yeh you don't need to worry about that Thanks bro

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  24. Started by swaha,

    how much respect & independence does ur religion give to girls? in my religion sanatan hindu dharma girls are given the highest respect. "naryastu yatra pujyante ramante tatra devta" where girls are worshipped god stays there. please reply.

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  25. Started by alex sam,

    The Quran on Seas and Rivers: Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.1 For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth2 (see figure 13). Figure 13: The Mediterranean …

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