Or, they're from a different culture. Japan, for example.

 

That very well might be true but I'm talking about people in Europe.

To be perfectly frank, that doesn't really help your position.

To be perfectly frank, that doesn't really help your position.

 

I'm not sure but if this comment refers to me I have to clarify that I do not take any positions on this, what I wrote is just a loose, subjective observation based on a very small number of people.

Prometheus, you said it is possible to love someone and still leave them. When you said "leave", do you mean just not being physically there but still talking and connecting with the person?

 

Both i guess. Sometimes people are able to separate but maintain some line of healthy communication. Other times the break has to be clean. I'm just basing this on personal observations, i don't really know any more about than any one else.

Lets face it.

 

Most human beings on this planet today are outright evil and selfish.

 

Animals are better than humans in almost every way.

 

Animals never offend you, animals never say mean things to you, animals aren't so greedy and corrupt and animals never do bad things to each other for no reason.

 

Only humans do these bad things to each other therefore animals are way better than humans.

 

I know I sound like a misanthrope but it's true. Most people on this planet are shitty and greedy.

Edited August 28, 20169 yr by seriously disabled

Animals never offend you, animals never say mean things to you, animals aren't so greedy and corrupt and animals never do bad things to each other for no reason.

 

Except the way you define these things, the animal can't lose, so humans are automatically going to fail in your eyes. The way you define "offend" is probably unattainable by any animal we normally come in contact with (i.e., offense requires intention, but animals never intend to offend). Animals can't speak so they can't say anything, mean or nice. The way you define greedy and corrupt are standard to humans only. Why isn't a bear gorging on stored months of honey considered greedy? Why isn't it corrupt for a cowbird to lay its eggs in another bird's nest so it doesn't have to raise its own young?

 

And you're really setting up confirmation bias with a phrase like "for no reason". You always assume animals have some natural reason for doing bad things to each other. It's OK for male lions to kill another male's children, because that's natural for them, right? And orcas can play with a seal until it drowns rather than just chomp on it after it's too tired to fight anymore, because... well, there must be a reason, right? This kind of thinking automatically favors any other animal over humans, for none of the right reasons.

Lets face it.

 

Most human beings on this planet today are outright evil and selfish.

Many, maybe, but not most.

 

7.4 billion people are simply not outright evil and selfish.

Lets face it.

 

Most human beings on this planet today are outright evil and selfish.

 

Animals are better than humans in almost every way.

 

Animals never offend you, animals never say mean things to you, animals aren't so greedy and corrupt and animals never do bad things to each other for no reason.

 

Only humans do these bad things to each other therefore animals are way better than humans.

 

I know I sound like a misanthrope but it's true. Most people on this planet are shitty and greedy.

I do not believe most people are selfish or evil. I would hope that most people do not believe this. most of the ones i know do not. most people are kind, they want friends, we need to work in teams for survival. animals do not have comprehension of evil or corrupt. they can not be compared to humans because they are different psychologically. a misanthrope is a person who dislikes human kind, so I agree you sound very misanthropic, glad you know that, but I do not think that is a true reflection of society. It is not to your advantage to live with this point of view that most people are immoral or evil. It is probably hard for you to make friends in life, or maybe you dont even want friends.

Most human beings on this planet today are outright evil and selfish.

 

Actually, a small percentage are outright evil and selfish, and a small percentage are saintly and compassionate. Most human beings on this planet today are somewhere in between.

QUOTE: "Animals are better than humans in almost every way"....

 

How?

 

QUOTE "animals never do bad things to each other"..

 

What rot. You know nothing about animals then, NOTHING at all - they can be VERY cruel to each other indeed.... when a lion takes over a new pride he drives off the old lion or kills it - then he kills ALL of the cubs, leaving the mother distraught, then rapes all of the females... yea, animals are better, sure. pfft! what total nonsense.

i don't find it strange as long as they're not zoophiles

Let me put it to you this way. I love Animals because they did not SA me from 2 to 4. That was a Human. I love Animals because they did not isolate me, force me to live in filth, have me go to the bathroom in a bucket, hit me, throw things at me, call me a little B**ch and generally abuse me for 20 years. That was a Human. I love Animals because they did not bully me all trough school, call me ugly, twist my head around my body and try to gouge out my eyes, those were Humans. I used to cry every day, for hours at a time, in the dark, asking the Universe for death. Because I felt unloved, alone and worthless and if I cried infront of others, because I couldn't hold it in, I was judged or ignored...by Humans. However, when I cried and Animals were nearby, they tried to comfort me the way Humans should have but never did. Animals were who was there for me, as I sat in the dark, surrounded by garbage, having flashbacks to being raped at two years old and self harming...not Humans. Humans never reported my abuse, Humans never stuck up for me, Humans didn't show me love or kindness. Humans only joined in on the fun of torturing a suffering girl. If it had been left up to Humans alone, I would have committed suicide years ago...best case. The thing is, my case is not isolated. Humans are capable of some of the most horrificacts you can imagine against eachother and the way Humans treat other life forms is even worse! You may not care about that but in my mind that only speaks to who YOU are as a person. I find YOUR views unethical and believe that if given the chance, you would have joined in the misstreatment of a small, missunderstood girl as far as I am concerned, your stand on ethics betray you as that kind of person. Then again you are entitled to your opinion. However unethical it may be.

Edited May 9May 9 by Yannie79

On 8/10/2016 at 4:13 AM, iNow said:

First, humans are animals, too. Second, those comments are probably voiced bc people have been repeatedly hurt by other humans, but only ever loved unconditionally by animals. Unclear why you find this so impenetrably confusing. Third, you are completely ignoring just how horribly shitty humans so often are (please don't make me cite specifics, the list is far too long and disheartening). Fourth, why do you even care?

Spot on.

On 8/10/2016 at 5:23 AM, Phi for All said:

There are people I know who don't care about other people at all. Should I love them more than my dog? I don't.

 

I judge every creature by their actions. I love the ones who's actions make my life better.

Me too and also by the things they don't do. People's actions speak vastly louder than their words and also shows me the sort of person they are.

People have agendas, me included. Animals don't seem to. They are what they are, nothing more, nothing less. Animals can be trusted to just be what they are.

On 8/10/2016 at 4:05 AM, Lyudmilascience said:

I think as people we should love and value people more.

You're right and I actually wish this could be true but life exp teaches us to be suspicious of other people, never heard of a cat or dog raping a human, or robbing a human or shoplifting to sell their stolen items to buy drugs ...

It would be great if we could all do this but it's not how we are programmed.

I read some time ago that humans ultimately want two things - reward and recognition - however or whatever form that comes in.

Domestic animals just want to be looked after, Wild animals just want to live.

I'm afraid I am the opposite of you or your thinking regarding this subject.

I don't trust people, I don't really like most people I come into contact with and I would rather be with my cat than I would a lot of people I encounter each day.

Animals to me are, to an extent what humans aren't. They are pure. They don't lie, they don't steal and they don't cheat and they don't have ego's that need constant feeding by manipulating or abusing others.

Edited May 9May 9 by Imagine Everything

On 8/28/2016 at 9:55 AM, seriously disabled said:

Lets face it.

 

Most human beings on this planet today are outright evil and selfish.

 

Statistics?

9 hours ago, Imagine Everything said:

Spot on.

In what manner?

9 hours ago, Imagine Everything said:

never heard of a cat or dog raping a human,

It would be great if we could all do this but it's not how we are programmed.

I read some time ago that humans ultimately want two things - reward and recognition - however or whatever form that comes in.

Domestic animals just want to be looked after, Wild animals just want to live.

I'm afraid I am the opposite of you or your thinking regarding this subject.

I don't trust people, I don't really like most people I come into contact with and I would rather be with my cat than I would a lot of people I encounter each day.

Animals to me are, to an extent what humans aren't. They are pure. They don't lie, they don't steal and they don't cheat and they don't have ego's that need constant feeding by manipulating or abusing others.

First of are they physically able too? Can a mouse **** a cat? No, why is this even a statement?

Define "programmed"

9 hours ago, Imagine Everything said:

Animals to me are, to an extent what humans aren't. They are pure. They don't lie, they don't steal and they don't cheat and they don't have ego's that need constant feeding by manipulating or abusing others.

Animals kill, they do steal, they manipulate, some practice forced mating, and behave similarly to how humans do to some degree.

Humans have driven hundreds of thousands of SPECIES to extinction. Humans have genocided each other into extinction. Not in the name of survival but in the name of selfish greed.

Humans are the greatest threat to all other living creatures (except scavengers and parasites and viruses that live off of us and our garbage) and to the planet, and even to ourselves.

Humans harm and murder other humans systematically through structural inequality and privation, through religious and ideological and colonial wars and preventable diseases, through clinging to and enforcing oppressive and repressive socio-cultural norms and traditions.

The most dangerous animal, in comparison, is the mosquito. According to the WHO, mosquitoes kill about 700,000 people annually but traffic accidents kill 1.19 million per year. Just humans being careless and irresponsible in a car are almost twice as deadly as the deadliest animal alive.

When animals have killed more people directly and indirectly (say, through environmental destruction, denial of healthcare, housing and food, instigating suicide through bullying etc), I'll be very, very glad to like people more than animals.

Until then, I'll continue to have more respect for ladybugs and ants, even though I have had entomophobia ever since I was a toddler. My ethical considerations and moral compass are not determined by my base "animal" biological reflexes and I really hope it is clear why this should be case.

On 5/9/2025 at 5:56 PM, Sohan Lalwani said:

Statistics?

In what manner?

First of are they physically able too? Can a mouse **** a cat? No, why is this even a statement?

Define "programmed"

Animals kill, they do steal, they manipulate, some practice forced mating, and behave similarly to how humans do to some degree.

Yes, "Some" being the key word here. Only some do it.

Now please name me a country, city, town, school or even family where humans do not lie, manipulate, steal, harm, hoard, hate.

Instead of like with animals where you can easily list the minority of species which display behaviour like deception, violent oppression, forced mating attempts and resource hoarding at the expense of others' survival, with humans, it is the handful that do not perform or experience any of these acts that are the lucky minority.

15 minutes ago, pechmogul said:

Humans have driven hundreds of thousands of SPECIES to extinction. Humans have genocided each other into extinction. Not in the name of survival but in the name of selfish greed.

Humans are the greatest threat to all other living creatures (except scavengers and parasites and viruses that live off of us and our garbage) and to the planet, and even to ourselves.

Humans harm and murder other humans systematically through structural inequality and privation, through religious and ideological and colonial wars and preventable diseases, through clinging to and enforcing oppressive and repressive socio-cultural norms and traditions.

The most dangerous animal, in comparison, is the mosquito. According to the WHO, mosquitoes kill about 700,000 people annually but traffic accidents kill 1.19 million per year. Just humans being careless and irresponsible in a car are almost twice as deadly as the deadliest animal alive.

When animals have killed more people directly and indirectly (say, through environmental destruction, denial of healthcare, housing and food, instigating suicide through bullying etc), I'll be very, very glad to like people more than animals.

Until then, I'll continue to have more respect for ladybugs and ants, even though I have had entomophobia ever since I was a toddler. My ethical considerations and moral compass are not determined by my base "animal" biological reflexes and I really hope it is clear why this should be case.

Yes, "Some" being the key word here. Only some do it.

Now please name me a country, city, town, school or even family where humans do not lie, manipulate, steal, harm, hoard, hate.

Instead of like with animals where you can easily list the minority of species which display behaviour like deception, violent oppression, forced mating attempts and resource hoarding at the expense of others' survival, with humans, it is the handful that do not perform or experience any of these acts that are the lucky minority.

10/10 explanation, but the same rules apply. Animals decieve and murder, take Myrmaplata plataleoides, or specific scorpionfly species.

4 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

10/10 explanation, but the same rules apply. Animals decieve and murder, take Myrmaplata plataleoides, or specific scorpionfly species.

But humans are sentient, and do most of these things voluntarily. I don’t think an insect killing another organism to be murder; it’s not premeditated.

2 hours ago, swansont said:

But humans are sentient, and do most of these things voluntarily. I don’t think an insect killing another organism to be murder; it’s not premeditated.

I understand your statement, but how would you define sentience? The ability to make decisions? If so, I would say an insect is sentient.

Also, Homo Sapiens are on the same phylogenetic tree as all other organisms so we ourselves are animals to some extent.

Speaking in modern terms,, domesticated animals are very friendly within most occasions yes, but there are numerous examples paleontologically speaking that can suggest otherwise.

One was found in Swartkrans, South Africa where a Paranthropus robustus skullcap (SK 54) had two puncture marks on the cranium that match the spacing of modern leopard canines. The damage aligns with the killing method leopards use: biting into the back of the skull.

Citation: Brain, C.K. (1981). The Hunters or the Hunted?

Another was found in Bouri Formation, Ethiopia where some Hominin tibia fragment and other bones with drag and bite marks. The specific species is debated but based off of current evidence, the most likely species is Australopithecus garhi about 2.5 million years ago. Various puncture and drag marks that closely match the bite patterns of crocodilians were found, including bones that also showed teeth scoring consistent with crocodile feeding behavior.

Citation: White et al. (1999). Nature 371

Finally, probably the most famous one and my personal favorite is the Taung Child in South Africa. The specimen was an Australopithecus africanus juvenile skull around 2.5 MYA which had severe skull and eye socket damage consistent with modern eagle attacks on monkeys. This includes but is not limited to talon marks around the orbits and base of the skull suggest raptorial predation.

Citation: Berger & Clarke (1995), Journal of Human Evolution

I hope you found this helpful, good day.

7 hours ago, pechmogul said:

Until then, I'll continue to have more respect for ladybugs and ants, even though I have had entomophobia ever since I was a toddler. My ethical considerations and moral compass are not determined by my base "animal" biological reflexes and I really hope it is clear why this should be case.

I am very curious because I am an ant nerd, do you have a favorite species?

11 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your statement, but how would you define sentience? The ability to make decisions? If so, I would say an insect is sentient.

Decisions would have to include the ability to decide not to do things, as I had suggested. And self-awareness.

11 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Also, Homo Sapiens are on the same phylogenetic tree as all other organisms so we ourselves are animals to some extent.

I don’t think the fact that we’re animals is relevant. Can an insect choose to become vegan? Does an insect kill out of passion? Does it kill because it doesn’t like the victim’s politics or religion?

20 hours ago, pechmogul said:

Humans have genocided each other into extinction.

We have? How am I reading this?

Just now, TheVat said:

We have? How am I reading this?

Friendly fire and with other species 🤪

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Decisions would have to include the ability to decide not to do things, as I had suggested. And self-awareness

Let’s say a gharial has eaten enough fish, it sees another fish swimming and doesn’t eat it out of lack of hunger (choosing not too). Isn’t that sentience?

1 hour ago, swansont said:

I don’t think the fact that we’re animals is relevant. Can an insect choose to become vegan? Does an insect kill out of passion? Does it kill because it doesn’t like the victim’s politics or religion?

It makes it more confusing. Perhaps there was a grizzly bear of human intelligence that was explaining something and said “Grizzly Bears and animals,” it makes them sound like a different class when they are the same thing.

Actually, some locusts become can become carnivorous either independently or in response to ecological pressures. Insects do not have religion from what I know, however, certain species DO massacre and enslave overrun colonies.

Good day

10 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Let’s say a gharial has eaten enough fish, it sees another fish swimming and doesn’t eat it out of lack of hunger (choosing not too). Isn’t that sentience?

It doesn’t choose to not be hungry.

And the issue of sentience alone doesn’t address my point. I laid out a broader set of conditions. The fact that the gharial only eats fish when it’s hungry satisfies those conditions.

1 hour ago, swansont said:

It doesn’t choose to not be hungry.

And the issue of sentience alone doesn’t address my point. I laid out a broader set of conditions. The fact that the gharial only eats fish when it’s hungry satisfies those conditions.

It's still choosing not to eat the fish, it can realize its not hungry, so it chooses not to kill more. Insects don't have religions, some have colonies which they are loyal too. Those colonies whether intra/interspecific do genocide, mass killings, and slavery.

7 hours ago, swansont said:

Does an insect kill out of passion? Does it kill because it doesn’t like the victim’s politics or religion?

This is going slightly off topic, we are talking about animals in general not insects alone.

Animals could kill out of politics/clans, an example is that chimps may raid neighboring groups and kill individuals, often with coordinated attacks These events can be linked to group related conflicts and not always for territory or hunger. So to some extent yes

On 5/20/2025 at 1:58 AM, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your statement, but how would you define sentience? The ability to make decisions? If so, I would say an insect is sentient.

I would define sentience as the ability to understand why it decided that.

An ant doesn't doesn't give a shit.