What is the psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right?

[nec209]

What is the psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right?

So most countries have liberal and conservative parties but in the US the conservative party has been moving more to right with the neo con and fascism views. I remember when Bush was in power he was painted has fascism and hard core conservative. But today he would be a liberal compared to Trump and where GOP is today. When you look at Trump and Ron Desantis you see how party has moved more to right.

So what is driving this move to right? And why are the politicians more crazy like why can’t you have politicians with Trump views but speak like Bush than a third grader and more crazy like. Why is it that moving more to the right is losing the ability to speak and more crazy like?

But now it seems the GOP and conservative people hate Bush now but love Trump. So there is more of shift to right. I would think in 10 to 15 years from now Trump would be very liberal because the GOP would move even more to right than where Trump is today.

The liberals have also moved more to left on identity politics and social issues but still being same on economic issues with some even moving more to right on economic issues.

It like the US is being split in middle moving away unless that the news media is doing?

But I don’t know why every new president the GOP moves more to right, I remember the Bush days and how he was hated and viewed has hard core conservative and now liberals would love for Bush to win over Trump or Ron Desantis.

There is even some liberals hoping Ron Desantis would win over Trump because of the similar views but he less crazy like and speaks better. But again in 10 to 15 years from now Trump would be very liberal because the GOP would move even more to right than where it is today.

So has any psychologist or psychiatrist done a psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right and where the US going down rabbit hole of mental hospital in the way they talk and the way things are going?

The liberals don’t look good has in the US now is identity politics and more left on social issues possible pushing centrist to right conservatives more to the alt right.

Edited November 13, 2023 by nec209

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

So most countries have liberal and conservative parties but in the US the conservative party has been moving more to right with the neo con and fascism views. I remember when Bush was in power he was painted has fascism and hard core conservative. But today he would be a liberal compared to Trump and where GOP is today. When you look at Trump and Ron Desantis you see how party has moved more to right.

There are over a dozen warning signs of fascism, and most can be spun in the fascist's favor. For instance, when Trump banned travel from Muslim countries under the guise of protecting the nation from terrorists entering the country, many applauded him. In actuality what he did was unconstitutional and set a precedent for tossing out our democratic republic values, something that's on the list of warning signs of fascism. 

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

So what is driving this move to right? And why are the politicians more crazy like why can’t you have politicians with Trump views but speak like Bush than a third grader and more crazy like. Why is it that moving more to the right is losing the ability to speak and more crazy like?

Extremists, by their very nature, tend to go all out. They talk passionately to anyone who will listen, they get the signatures necessary, they run for office, they get elected. Unfortunately, extremist politicians don't care about representing their constituents. They have agendas instead.

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

There is even some liberals hoping Ron Desantis would win over Trump because of the similar views but he less crazy like and speaks better. But again in 10 to 15 years from now Trump would be very liberal because the GOP would move even more to right than where it is today.

If the GOP gains control of the White House and Congress in 2024, Americans won't need to worry about representative voting in 10 years. 

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

The liberals have also moved more to left on identity politics and social issues but still being same on economic issues with some even moving more to right on economic issues.

I'm not a big fan at all of the liberal/conservative labels. I think the real factor here is corporate power, which has methodologies for dealing with whatever label we choose to put on something. Right now, there's no incentives for the uber-wealthy to do anything other than sit on tons of cash while making the most profit ever, and get ready to gobble when others fail.

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

The liberals don’t look good has in the US now is identity politics and more left on social issues possible pushing centrist to right conservatives more to the alt right.

What exactly is it about identity politics and social issues that make you think liberal policies are bad for them? In a representative democracy, don't you think the government owes something to the citizens who drive the economy, make up its military, and obey the country's laws? What is so awful about defending social spending that it would drive you to vote for a fascist? 

 

[toucana]

6 hours ago, nec209 said:

What is the psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right?

So most countries have liberal and conservative parties but in the US the conservative party has been moving more to right with the neo con and fascism views. I remember when Bush was in power he was painted has fascism and hard core conservative. But today he would be a liberal compared to Trump and where GOP is today. When you look at Trump and Ron Desantis you see how party has moved more to right.

So what is driving this move to right? And why are the politicians more crazy like why can’t you have politicians with Trump views but speak like Bush than a third grader and more crazy like. Why is it that moving more to the right is losing the ability to speak and more crazy like?

But now it seems the GOP and conservative people hate Bush now but love Trump. So there is more of shift to right. I would think in 10 to 15 years from now Trump would be very liberal because the GOP would move even more to right than where Trump is today.

The liberals have also moved more to left on identity politics and social issues but still being same on economic issues with some even moving more to right on economic issues.

It like the US is being split in middle moving away unless that the news media is doing?

But I don’t know why every new president the GOP moves more to right, I remember the Bush days and how he was hated and viewed has hard core conservative and now liberals would love for Bush to win over Trump or Ron Desantis.

There is even some liberals hoping Ron Desantis would win over Trump because of the similar views but he less crazy like and speaks better. But again in 10 to 15 years from now Trump would be very liberal because the GOP would move even more to right than where it is today.

So has any psychologist or psychiatrist done a psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right and where the US going down rabbit hole of mental hospital in the way they talk and the way things are going?

The liberals don’t look good has in the US now is identity politics and more left on social issues possible pushing centrist to right conservatives more to the alt right.

One fundamental problem is that many people on the far right-wing of US politics don’t really believe in democratic values anymore, and nor do they wish to live in a constitutional democracy.  A good few of them apparently want to live in a Christo-Fascist theocracy based exclusively on evangelical fundamentalist readings of the bible as interpreted by self-appointed ‘ayatollahs’, some of whom want to declare a holy war on unbelievers, and execute non-Christians (and no, that is not a joke or an exaggeration).

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investigating-washington-state-rep-for-manifesto-urging-all-males/

Intermingled with these Christian zealots are self-indoctrinated members of the QAnon cult which originally began as an online prank on the 4CHAN image board  - a cult which some believe was secretly promoted and encouraged by Russian intelligence operatives as part of a black-ops campaign of psychological warfare against the USA. There is in fact some considerable overlap between the QAnon cult and various wings of the evangelical christian right. There are for example sub-chapters of QAnon that identify strongly with young earth creationists who are also flat-earthers, and follow Bishop Ussher’s chronology which teaches that the (flat) earth was created at 6pm on Tuesday 22 October 4004 BC.

Closely associated with both the Christo-Fascist and QAnon cults is yet another bizarre group known as the Sovereign Citizen Movement who back in early 2021 were confidently predicting that Donald Trump would be sworn in as the *19th* president of the USA on 4th March 2021 - Basically this movement believes that every congress since 1871 has been invalid, and that Ulysses Grant the18th president was the last legitimate holder of that office. (For more detail see —>   https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/qanon-conspiracy-theories-trump-tiktok-1118668/ ).

A common thread linking all of these cults is what the French Sociologist Émile Durkheim (1858 - 1916)  called ‘Anomie’. a word whose Greek root  ἀνομία literally means ‘lawlessness’. Durkheim used this word in several ways, but the one that seems relevant here is a general breakdown of collective moral values caused by a conflict or mismatch between existing belief systems and rapidly changing social realities affecting ordinary people such as mass industrialisation, or the types of de-industrialisation and impoverishment seen in the rust-belt areas of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie

Many ordinary people in the USA feel alienated, betrayed, disempowered and fundamentally ignored both by modern corporate America, and by what by they regard as the self-centered ‘Washington bubble’ of mainstream american politics. This sense of anger and victimhood makes them ready converts to the teachings of conspiracy cults which provide self-referential explanations, convenient scapegoats (e.g. Immigrants, the ‘Deep State; ‘Fake News’, Liberals, Masks  etc) and above all they provide a missing sense of community in the form of the companionship of fellow believers  -  people who will happily stand together on the Grassy Knoll at Dealey Plaza waiting for JFK or JFK jnr. to magically rise from the dead, restore Donald Trump to the presidency, and join him in his fight against the Deep State to purge the world of satanic child-eating cannibals.

https://people.com/politics/qanon-believers-gather-dallas-john-f-kennedy-jr-died-1999/

Edited November 14, 2023 by toucana
typo - 'Chronology'

[nec209]

14 hours ago, toucana said:

One fundamental problem is that many people on the far right-wing of US politics don’t really believe in democratic values anymore, and nor do they wish to live in a constitutional democracy.  A good few of them apparently want to live in a Christo-Fascist theocracy based exclusively on evangelical fundamentalist readings of the bible as interpreted by self-appointed ‘ayatollahs’, some of whom want to declare a holy war on unbelievers, and execute non-Christians (and no, that is not a joke or an exaggeration).

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investigating-washington-state-rep-for-manifesto-urging-all-males/

Intermingled with these Christian zealots are self-indoctrinated members of the QAnon cult which originally began as an online prank on the 4CHAN image board  - a cult which some believe was secretly promoted and encouraged by Russian intelligence operatives as part of a black-ops campaign of psychological warfare against the USA. There is in fact some considerable overlap between the QAnon cult and various wings of the evangelical christian right. There are for example sub-chapters of QAnon that identify strongly with young earth creationists who are also flat-earthers, and follow Bishop Ussher’s chronology which teaches that the (flat) earth was created at 6pm on Tuesday 22 October 4004 BC.

Closely associated with both the Christo-Fascist and QAnon cults is yet another bizarre group known as the Sovereign Citizen Movement who back in early 2021 were confidently predicting that Donald Trump would be sworn in as the *19th* president of the USA on 4th March 2021 - Basically this movement believes that every congress since 1871 has been invalid, and that Ulysses Grant the18th president was the last legitimate holder of that office. (For more detail see —>   https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/qanon-conspiracy-theories-trump-tiktok-1118668/ ).

A common thread linking all of these cults is what the French Sociologist Émile Durkheim (1858 - 1916)  called ‘Anomie’. a word whose Greek root  ἀνομία literally means ‘lawlessness’. Durkheim used this word in several ways, but the one that seems relevant here is a general breakdown of collective moral values caused by a conflict or mismatch between existing belief systems and rapidly changing social realities affecting ordinary people such as mass industrialisation, or the types of de-industrialisation and impoverishment seen in the rust-belt areas of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie

Many ordinary people in the USA feel alienated, betrayed, disempowered and fundamentally ignored both by modern corporate America, and by what by they regard as the self-centered ‘Washington bubble’ of mainstream american politics. This sense of anger and victimhood makes them ready converts to the teachings of conspiracy cults which provide self-referential explanations, convenient scapegoats (e.g. Immigrants, the ‘Deep State; ‘Fake News’, Liberals, Masks  etc) and above all they provide a missing sense of community in the form of the companionship of fellow believers  -  people who will happily stand together on the Grassy Knoll at Dealey Plaza waiting for JFK or JFK jnr. to magically rise from the dead, restore Donald Trump to the presidency, and join him in his fight against the Deep State to purge the world of satanic child-eating cannibals.

https://people.com/politics/qanon-believers-gather-dallas-john-f-kennedy-jr-died-1999/

The US had conspiracy theories before and fringe stuff like talk radio like artbell and now coast to coast AM, but there was always a limit how far they would go with it.

Now the conspiracy is more crazy like now like the Deep State of everyone or most everyone in government, FBI, courts, police and CIA are part of the Deep State trying to destroy the US culture and take down Trump. Well no one would believe south thing in the 90s or 2000s not even most top listener of coast to coast AM. But the Deep State conspiracy like the QAnon conspiracy of satanic child-eating cannibals is now more common mainstream conspiracy these days.

But the scary thing is people are moving into these crazy conspiracy stuff now and want is next even more crazy conspiracy.

In sense people may be becoming mental and crazy this could be a pandemic on it’s own and are the psychologist or psychiatrist even have training to deal with this at all.

The fact that people part of the QAnon and opening saying part of the QAnon are getting jobs in government, court or police are very disturbing. Well other parts of the world shake their head how opening QAnon people can get jobs in government, court or police be okay.

No where in history some thing like this has happen not even the Roman Empire and are psychologist or psychiatrist even have any training to deal with this when the US is becoming mental and crazy? And how do you fix such problem?

And part of the the problem you have a Trump and people in government that support these crazy conspiracy theories!!

Edited November 14, 2023 by nec209

[Phi for All]

25 minutes ago, nec209 said:

No where in history some thing like this has happen not even the Roman Empire and are psychologist or psychiatrist even have any training to deal with this when the US is becoming mental and crazy? And how do you fix such problem?

These are old tactics being employed using modern techniques. Hold up a strawman, tell the people that the strawman is responsible for all their woes, and let the people beat the crap out of the strawman. It's all to take focus off the real problem, the uber wealthy and their unearned, unethical, and unbelievably selfish manipulation of our society.

[mistermack]

22 hours ago, nec209 said:

So has any psychologist or psychiatrist done a psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right and where the US going down rabbit hole of mental hospital in the way they talk and the way things are going?

That's really not a subject for psychiatrists or psychologists. You don't have to have a recognised mental illness to vote for Trump or or any of the more extreme candidates. Once mental professionals start pronouncing on normal healthy people, they are really in the realms of bullshit. (which is very popular in both wings). That's how you can have four psychiatrists examine the same offender, and two will say he's sane, and the other two will say he's not. And invariably, it's the ones hired by the prosecution that "think" he's sane. 

There are plenty of people who can give a more informed and qualified verdict on voting trends. They are political analysts. 

[nec209]

31 minutes ago, mistermack said:

That's really not a subject for psychiatrists or psychologists. You don't have to have a recognised mental illness to vote for Trump or or any of the more extreme candidates. Once mental professionals start pronouncing on normal healthy people, they are really in the realms of bullshit. (which is very popular in both wings). That's how you can have four psychiatrists examine the same offender, and two will say he's sane, and the other two will say he's not. And invariably, it's the ones hired by the prosecution that "think" he's sane. 

There are plenty of people who can give a more informed and qualified verdict on voting trends. They are political analysts. 

I mean psychiatrists or psychologists assessment with dumb down effect of the way the person is talking and crazy like not so much politically be it centrist, right, far right or super far right or fascism. What causing the person to speak like a third grader and be crazy like.

Unless you saying fascism speak very strange like and known to be more crazy like in views and beliefs. Than in that case there are some elements of fascism.

[TheVat]

21 minutes ago, nec209 said:

I mean psychiatrists or psychologists assessment with dumb down effect of the way the person is talking

Gullibility.   Poor critical thinking skills.  Persistent mood of pessimism and fear.  

They are the clay that extremists mold.

[nec209]

19 hours ago, TheVat said:

Gullibility.   Poor critical thinking skills.  Persistent mood of pessimism and fear.  

They are the clay that extremists mold.

Trump was just known to say one thing than the next day say no I did not say that and is also known to talk about military intelligence.  He speaking his mind if he was little boy age 8. Trump was just speaking his mind like little boy not trying act like a polish businesses man or president.

And Trump grammar and speaking at third grader level. The problem is the GOP and people that vote for Trump are okay with the dumb down effect now. If this continues in the next 15 years some one will be speaking at first grader level or even worse not be able to speak at all because of the dumbing down effect.

Did Hitler and Mussolini have better speaking abilities?

Also President Nixon and president Reagan where known for the proxy wars with USSR and hardcore conservative views but had better speaking abilities.

So if that is the case the crazy views, crazy conspiracy like QAnon, grammar and speaking at a third grader level, changing his views every day we going to bomb country X than the next day say no I did not say that is some thing new.

Today President Nixon and president Reagan would be far right conservative but they did not have the crazy views, crazy conspiracy like QAnon, grammar and speaking at a third grader level.

Unless this is some about fascism that they have poor thinking and speaking ability and known to be crazy. But again have no idea how Hitler and Mussolini acted compared to Trump.

It also does not help many people in the GOP are into the QAnon stuff and deep state conspiracy stuff.

[John Cuthber]

I think it was assessed here

And the consensus was that it's crazy.

I don't  think there has been any improvement since.

[nec209]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:50 AM, John Cuthber said:

I think it was assessed here

And the consensus was that it's crazy.

I don't  think there has been any improvement since.

The problem is the liberals are not pushing for economic improvements and base on the polling Trump is leading over Biden now.

The liberals have shifted to a more centrist right party on economic policy well the conservatives have shifted from far right to even more extreme far right and embracing conspiracies like QAnon and deep state conspiracies.

 

[swansont]

12 minutes ago, nec209 said:

The problem is the liberals are not pushing for economic improvements and base on the polling Trump is leading over Biden now.

So Bidenomics is something I’ve hallucinated? No inflation reduction law, infrastructure act or CHIPS and science act?

 

[iNow]

The problem is we live in a sea of information and noise, and most of it is being shaped to help you avoid seeing the important bits. Too many people are telling too many half true stories, then too many others are adding too many new narratives of their own into the other half. 

[CharonY]

Polling on perceived economic and crime situation suggest that facts don't really matter anymore, assuming they ever did.

[toucana]

7 hours ago, CharonY said:

Polling on perceived economic and crime situation suggest that facts don't really matter anymore, assuming they ever did.

Argentina has just elected a chain-saw wielding far-right ‘libertarian’ fringe candidate called Javier Milei as their new president.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-67470549

Popularly known as ‘El Loco’ (the madman), his economic  objectives include replacing the peso with the US dollar and “blowing up” the central bank. On social issues, he wants to loosen gun laws, abolish abortion - which was only legalised in Argentina as recently as 2020 - and allow the sale and purchase of human organs.

The victory of Milei who won a decisive run-off by almost 12% against Mr Massa the economy minister of the outgoing left-wing government has been welcomed by Donald Trump and former president Bolsonaro of  Brazil who say that he will “Make Argentina great again”.

One salient factor that probably influenced many voters was a deep economic crisis that had seen the annual inflation rate rise to 143%, with around 40% of Argentines living below the poverty line.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by toucana
typo 'Popularly'

[iNow]

8 hours ago, CharonY said:

Polling on perceived economic and crime situation suggest that facts don't really matter anymore, assuming they ever did.

[Phi for All]

12 hours ago, nec209 said:

The problem is the liberals are not pushing for economic improvements

You should look at news sources other than the ones you're currently using if you think this statement is correct. Or it could be that you're using metrics others aren't using. For instance, our economic growth rate has been positive despite economists predicting the opposite due to inflation. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

13 hours ago, toucana said:

Popularly known as ‘El Loco’ (the madman), his economic  objectives include replacing the peso with the US dollar and “blowing up” the central bank.

One salient factor that probably influenced many voters was a deep economic crisis that had seen the annual inflation rate rise to 143%, with around 40% of Argentines living below the poverty line.

 

Replacing the Argentinian Peso with the USD could certainly tame the mess of the 143% inflation...though of course they abdicate control of any monetary policy and make their Central bank redundant

Be interesting to see how that works out.

[CharonY]

44 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Replacing the Argentinian Peso with the USD could certainly tame the mess of the 143% inflation...though of course they abdicate control of any monetary policy and make their Central bank redundant

Be interesting to see how that works out.

IIRC Argentine pegged their Pesos against USD in the 90s (because of hyperinflation). One could look at the outcomes then.

[J.C.MacSwell]

9 hours ago, CharonY said:

IIRC Argentine pegged their Pesos against USD in the 90s (because of hyperinflation). One could look at the outcomes then.

Not the same thing though. That would require a central bank actively working to peg the currency and/or guaranteeing the value of the Peso to the USD.

[CharonY]

While true, some of the issues will be similar. The Brazilian devaluation and the inability to respond to that was at least one factor in ending convertibility, for example. Switching the currency entirely would make an exit really difficult (if not impossible).

[nec209]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:20 PM, swansont said:

So Bidenomics is something I’ve hallucinated? No inflation reduction law, infrastructure act or CHIPS and science act?

 

 

On 11/20/2023 at 10:27 AM, Phi for All said:

You should look at news sources other than the ones you're currently using if you think this statement is correct. Or it could be that you're using metrics others aren't using. For instance, our economic growth rate has been positive despite economists predicting the opposite due to inflation. 

I’m talking in terms of social programs and economics is very conservative policies. What Americans don’t understand if the Democratic Party ran in Europe it would be Conservative Party.

In the UK and Canada you have a conservative party that supports universal health care and more regulations of businesses and banks than the US.

The Democratic Party is not supporting universal health care at all or even more medicare and medicaid, minimum wage increase at all, regulations of businesses and banks.

When it comes to taxes and regulations of businesses and banks it is very conservative compared to Europe.

The US has homeless and tent cities that are nothing compared to UK and west Europe in size

None of the parties red or blue are talking about out of control price of homes.

 

14 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Replacing the Argentinian Peso with the USD could certainly tame the mess of the 143% inflation...though of course they abdicate control of any monetary policy and make their Central bank redundant

Be interesting to see how that works out.

From what I understand does that not have any thing to do with Venezuela and Argentina communist that caused currency crisis and massive inflation? Would South America not be better off if they did something like the euro?

 

[swansont]

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

I’m talking in terms of social programs and economics is very conservative policies. What Americans don’t understand if the Democratic Party ran in Europe it would be Conservative Party.

That’s irrelevant to how you framed this, though. You said “the liberals are not pushing for economic improvements” rather than assessing the liberal-ness of the programs. They have definitely pushed for economic improvements. How liberal the programs are is another discussion.

 

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

The Democratic Party is not supporting universal health care at all or even more medicare and medicaid, minimum wage increase at all, regulations of businesses and banks.

Democrats passed Obamacare, and that included medicaid expansion. States that have not taken advantage of medicaid expansion are run by republicans. That’s not the fault of democrats.

Most congressional Democrats support increasing the federal minimum wage. The problem is there is no Republican support, so no legislation can be passed. States that have low minimum wages tend to be run by republicans.

Same goes for regulation.

You need better sources of information.

 

ETA: Is this a democrat or a republican

 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

I’m talking in terms of social programs and economics is very conservative policies. What Americans don’t understand if the Democratic Party ran in Europe it would be Conservative Party.

But you said the liberals weren't pushing for economic improvement, which clearly isn't true. I agree that US politics is dominated by the right wing, and that our liberals are still right of center for the most part. What you don't understand is that telling a big group of people what they don't understand is almost guaranteed to be wrong. Generalizations usually fail.

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

In the UK and Canada you have a conservative party that supports universal health care and more regulations of businesses and banks than the US.

The Democratic Party is not supporting universal health care at all or even more medicare and medicaid, minimum wage increase at all, regulations of businesses and banks.

Having to fight to maintain the Affordable Care Act against multiple attempts to repeal it and replace it with something wonderful (too wonderful to actually let us know BEFORE they repeal the ACA) has been an uphill struggle against deep Republican pockets. How would you suggest the Democratic Party push universal healthcare when the GOP base fights so much against the first step towards it?

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

When it comes to taxes and regulations of businesses and banks it is very conservative compared to Europe.

The US has homeless and tent cities that are nothing compared to UK and west Europe in size

It's not liberal or conservative, it's what the uber-wealthy spend their money lobbying for. And they can pay to have it spun in the media to suit a liberal or conservative audience. Whatever makes them richer is where they focus, and many extremist capitalists want NO taxes and NO regulation for them whatsoever. Social spending to help the homeless situation is money that could be subsidizing their multinational corporations.

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

None of the parties red or blue are talking about out of control price of homes.

Sure they are, that's more generalizing on your part. 

Unfortunately, messing with the price of anything is a trap for Democrats and Republicans alike. Biden got away with capping the price of insulin, which was fantastic, but imagine him stepping in with a cap on housing prices. And that wouldn't fix the problem, since it seems to also be driven by the attractive AirBnB model. 

 

[swansont]

28 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Biden got away with capping the price of insulin, which was fantastic

Which all of the republicans voted against (and IIRC, have vowed to repeal)