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Breakdown 3456

Retrocausality

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Sorry to bug people here, I'd just like a few answers to some questions.

I read about retro causality which states that an event can predate its cause. I was wondering is this how the universe was created. I know Lawrence Krauss and others think that the universe was created from nothing, but is this how he and others think it was created from nothing? If so does that mean that the universe is in a time loop.

This thought is making me depressed. I was abused as a child and was very nearly killed. I'm terrified that if retrocausality is true then it will mean the following. 

The universe will eventually repeat itself. (I don't buy that it will remain in the same state forever.) If it does however the second time will have to go differently from the first, otherwise whatever retrocasuality will create two big bangs. As a result of this the universe will always repeat the second version of events. I'm terrified of that happening as that will mean I'll have to live out the second version of events, and in the second version I might not escape the abuse. I don't want to end up like that forever. It's a dark cloud hanging over my life. I think no matter what I do here it doesn't matter as the second one is important.

What I'd like to know is.

Is there a way for the universe to come out of nothing that doesn't depend on retrocausality?

Even if it did, would the universe have to follow the second version of events, or could it just follow random events each time. IE is the universe random. 

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37 minutes ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

Even if it did, would the universe have to follow the second version of events, or could it just follow random events each time. IE is the universe random. 

It's a super far-fetched idea that ignores that the universe is not a closed system and that there are sources of randomness at every level.

Get some professional treatment for your depression. I join my voice to those who've told you before.

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I would suggest to try to concentrate on the here and now.

The philosophy of living for the moment (also called mindfullness apparently : ref google).

This technique has helped many people.

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9 minutes ago, joigus said:

It's a super far-fetched idea that ignores that the universe is not a closed system and that there are sources of randomness at every level.

Get some professional treatment for your depression. I join my voice to those who've told you before.

I know thanks, I am in the middle of contacting a therapist. Hopefully I'll have an appointment arranged on Monday. Been on pills for three weeks now and they haven't really made a difference, but hopefully I might be able to get some treatment soon.

At times I worry if this is my depression, or just me not being able to cope. 

So just to be clear the idea of the universe being created in a time loop is a super far fetched idea right, and even if it did repeat it wouldn't always have to be the same history as the second time.  

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9 minutes ago, joigus said:

It's a super far-fetched idea that ignores that the universe is not a closed system and that there are sources of randomness at every level.

I agree.

Random thoughts, not much science below:

IF (extremely big if) the far-fetched idea is correct I assume the current universe is not likely the the very first occurrence of the universe, there was many prior universes. I have no evidence that any events in any earlier universe affects us. So from a philosophical point of view; since I do not remember living the same life in an earlier universe I neglect the chance of remembering this universe if there is ever repetition.

And if this is indeed the first version of the universe and memories from this universe will remain in the next one, then the next universe can't be an exact repetition. Just by having the first sentient beings basing their decisions on memories from earlier life, that would create some profound ripple effects, in addition to @joigus randomness? 

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Just to take up on @studiot's suggestion. An idea that you may find silly, but has helped me a lot during hard times is the thought that clouds keep rolling over my head no matter what I think. A similar mindset you can find here:

Quote

Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head

------------------------------
Raindrops are falling on my head
And just like the guy whose feet are too big for his bed
Nothing seems to fit
Those raindrops are falling on my head, they keep falling
So I just did me some talking to the sun
And I said I didn't like the way he got things done
Sleeping on the job
Those raindrops are falling on my head, they keep falling
But there's one thing I know
The blues they send to meet me
Won't defeat me, it won't be long
Till happiness steps up to greet me
Raindrops keep falling on my head
But that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red
Crying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the rain by complaining
Because I'm free
Nothing's worrying me
It won't be long till happiness steps up to greet me
Raindrops keep falling on my head
But that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red
Crying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the rain by complaining
Because I'm free
Nothing's worrying me
-------------------------------------
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Burt Bacharach / Hal David / Burt F. Bacharach

 

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4 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

I agree.

Random thoughts, not much science below:

IF (extremely big if) the far-fetched idea is correct I assume the current universe is not likely the the very first occurrence of the universe, there was many prior universes. I have no evidence that any events in any earlier universe affects us. So from a philosophical point of view; since I do not remember living the same life in an earlier universe I neglect the chance of remembering this universe if there is ever repetition.

And if this is indeed the first version of the universe and memories from this universe will remain in the next one, then the next universe can't be an exact repetition. Just by having the first sentient beings basing their decisions on memories from earlier life, that would create some profound ripple effects, in addition to @joigus randomness? 

Thanks I just can't seem to shake it. I always go back to thinking it is real, but knowing that scientists think my ideas are as much nonsense as some of my other delusions is making me feel a bit better. 

I always go for mad delusions when I'm depressed. 

48 minutes ago, studiot said:

I would suggest to try to concentrate on the here and now.

The philosophy of living for the moment (also called mindfullness apparently : ref google).

This technique has helped many people.

I'm sorry but I don't think that works for me in my current frame of mine. As I keep believing in this repetition, then I think what does it matter now as the next time I'll be killed in the most horrible way imaginable. 

Again though I appreciate your kindness and the others here helping me. 

I guess the only thing left to ask is, is my retrocausality creating the universe as ridiculous as God, (if not more so) and even if we did repeat, it wouldn't be the exact same as the second time anyway right? 

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3 hours ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

As I keep believing in this repetition, then I think what does it matter now as the next time I'll be killed in the most horrible way imaginable.

You're half-way there, just stop imagining why it matters tomorrow.

No-one can help you, if you're determined to destroy yourself, give yourself a break there's no coming back after.

3 hours ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

I guess the only thing left to ask is, is my retrocausality creating the universe as ridiculous as God

In the right context, there's nothing ridiculous about a god.

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5 hours ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

in the second version I might not escape the abuse.

..in the hypothesis about infinite number of parallel Universes (or infinitely forever repeating, in the all possible ways), everybody which you know are molested in infinite number of Universes.. and there is infinite number of Universes in which you do not even exist.. and there is infinite number of Universes in which you are woman, man, heterosexual or homosexual, or transsexual etc... and you do the all jobs of the world.. you are homeless or being billionaire, businessman, actor, politician, king and queen, etc. etc..  and there is infinite number of Universes in which you are killed in every possible way, in accident or murder, in every second/millisecond/picosecond of your hypothetical existence..

It also means there is infinite number of Universes, in which you're not abused.. and infinite number of Universes in which you are happy..

Decide in which Universe you want to be now.

Retrocausality has nothing to do with hypothesis about parallel Universes, or forever repeating Big Bang, in the all possible ways. The future (or parallel) has no influence on existing. If it would have influence, it could be experimentally detected.

 

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4 hours ago, joigus said:

Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head

------------------------------
Raindrops are falling on my head
And just like the guy whose feet are too big for his bed
Nothing seems to fit
Those raindrops are falling on my head, they keep falling
So I just did me some talking to the sun
And I said I didn't like the way he got things done
Sleeping on the job
Those raindrops are falling on my head, they keep falling
But there's one thing I know
The blues they send to meet me
Won't defeat me, it won't be long
Till happiness steps up to greet me
Raindrops keep falling on my head
But that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red
Crying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the rain by complaining
Because I'm free
Nothing's worrying me
It won't be long till happiness steps up to greet me
Raindrops keep falling on my head
But that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red
Crying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the rain by complaining
Because I'm free
Nothing's worrying me
-------------------------------------
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Burt Bacharach / Hal David / Burt F. Bacharach

:) :) :) 

what is this ? 

:)  :) :) 

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Lyrics to a pretty well known song

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sensei said:

Retrocausality has nothing to do with hypothesis about parallel Universes, or forever repeating Big Bang, in the all possible ways.

Yes. I've noticed that OP was using the term in a different sense. Very inspired and inspiring comment, by the way.

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3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

You're half-way there, just stop imagining why it matters tomorrow.

No-one can help you, if you're determined to destroy yourself, give yourself a break there's no coming back after.

In the right context, there's nothing ridiculous about a god.

Thanks for the kind words. I really do appreciate everyone's support here. Like I said I'll be able to arrange an appointment tomorrow. I'm glad that God is a more plausible idea to people than my one.

Ironically I have kind of created a version of hell for myself. Eternal torment. 

I was diagnosed with OCD so that might be why I keep focusing on this. 

 

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

..in the hypothesis about infinite number of parallel Universes (or infinitely forever repeating, in the all possible ways), everybody which you know are molested in infinite number of Universes.. and there is infinite number of Universes in which you do not even exist.. and there is infinite number of Universes in which you are woman, man, heterosexual or homosexual, or transsexual etc... and you do the all jobs of the world.. you are homeless or being billionaire, businessman, actor, politician, king and queen, etc. etc..  and there is infinite number of Universes in which you are killed in every possible way, in accident or murder, in every second/millisecond/picosecond of your hypothetical existence..

It also means there is infinite number of Universes, in which you're not abused.. and infinite number of Universes in which you are happy..

Decide in which Universe you want to be now.

Retrocausality has nothing to do with hypothesis about parallel Universes, or forever repeating Big Bang, in the all possible ways. The future (or parallel) has no influence on existing. If it would have influence, it could be experimentally detected.

 

My thought was this. I guess this can be the final debunking. A particle goes back in time and becomes the first particle that everything expanded from in the big bang. It then contracts back into a single particle at the end of the universe. (Even if it is expanding now, it can't stay in that state forever.) 

However when it repeats the second time it will have to be different at the beginning, in order to stop another copy of the particle from going back and interfering in our universe or creating two big bangs. So the universe which is deterministic and always follows a definite pattern, will only follow the second version when it repeats after that forever to avoid creating more particles, and my worry was that in the second version I might not escape the abuse. I nearly didn't this time, I was nearly killed horribly, so that version, rather than the one now, will be the one I live forever and ever, meaning I'll only ever be trapped in my own version of hell. 

You don't think it would always have to follow the second version? Does the universe follow a specific pattern? 

I guess Many Worlds would debunk this fear as if the particle went back then it would just split into two timelines rather than corrupt the one, but I don't know how accepted Many Worlds is. 

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Well I've made an appointment today. I'l be in a therapy session on Nov 9th. I'd ask not to close this thread as I will be asking the odd question whenever my anxiety flares up over the next two weeks. Thank you to those who answered my questions. 

Again I'll ask, even if my mad theory is correct, it wouldn't necessarily always follow just the second version of events forever?

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Same as you've been told by numerous people here and numerous people at other sites, there is no reason whatsoever to think future events will be an exact replica 

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2 hours ago, iNow said:

Same as you've been told by numerous people here and numerous people at other sites, there is no reason whatsoever to think future events will be an exact replica 

Sorry I don't mean to be annoying I guess I was just wanting to debunk it within its own logic, IE even IF it did repeat, there would be no reason for it just to repeat the one way is what I'm asking. IE the universe wouldn't be able to decide the second time round "I'll only repeat this way to avoid creating a paradox." I know the universe isn't conscious, but I worry 

Also virtual particles appearing out of nothing are not dependent on retrocausality either. There are ways and theories for the universe to be created out of nothing and without any stupid time loops right?  I can't wrap my head around how it could just come into nothing without a backwards casuation, but if most scientists don't agree then I'll hopefully accept it.

 

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5 hours ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

Sorry I don't mean to be annoying I guess I was just wanting to debunk it within its own logic, IE even IF it did repeat, there would be no reason for it just to repeat the one way is what I'm asking.

Obsessing about this kind of immense, unknowable, outrageous problem that we have no control over is a kind of shield to protect us from painful feelings. You've got some real work to do on these underlying emotions, so let this go for now, and see how your therapy session goes. Best wishes always.

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1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

Obsessing about this kind of immense, unknowable, outrageous problem that we have no control over is a kind of shield to protect us from painful feelings. You've got some real work to do on these underlying emotions, so let this go for now, and see how your therapy session goes. Best wishes always.

That probably is it. I'm going to keep trying my medication too. I felt slightly better today at certain points at least. Again though just to be clear my ideas of the second repeating universe are garbage and not supported by modern science. It's as stupid as Vampires right? 

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Okay I am not sure if this is good or bad answer. Worst case scenario the universe does repeat. I  Imagine I have pattern red green blue. This pattern repeats red green blue infinitely many times. I can either view the pattern as infinite or finite. Do I really need to count the additional red green blue or can I just view it as one pattern.

Just to make it clear
red green blue (happens once)
red green blue (happens infinite times)
I don't need any more information to know the pattern. Its like saying what is the number 1 is it 2/2/2/2 infinite times it doesn't add any information.
Of course you can view it as an overly complex infinite pattern  or you can view it as happening once. It reminds me of the glass half full half empty. It depends on your perceptive. I wasn't really going for the positive or negative outlook I was just saying both are correct but you can choose how to view it.

I apologize if this is a horrible answer. I am no way saying the universe repeats. Feel free to delete this answer if it sucks.

 

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5 hours ago, can't_think_of_a_name said:

Okay I am not sure if this is good or bad answer. Worst case scenario the universe does repeat. I  Imagine I have pattern red green blue. This pattern repeats red green blue infinitely many times. I can either view the pattern as infinite or finite. Do I really need to count the additional red green blue or can I just view it as one pattern.

Just to make it clear
red green blue (happens once)
red green blue (happens infinite times)
I don't need any more information to know the pattern. Its like saying what is the number 1 is it 2/2/2/2 infinite times it doesn't add any information.
Of course you can view it as an overly complex infinite pattern  or you can view it as happening once. It reminds me of the glass half full half empty. It depends on your perceptive. I wasn't really going for the positive or negative outlook I was just saying both are correct but you can choose how to view it.

I apologize if this is a horrible answer. I am no way saying the universe repeats. Feel free to delete this answer if it sucks.

 

If I understand you are sayinf that if the universe repeats then it will either follow the first time and not the second or an infinite number of variables? My worry was that it would only ever follow the second time forever, because if it tried to follow the first then it would create a paradox, as whatever created the universe the first time would be in danger of doing so again, so the universe would intentionally go different the next time, and then decide to repeat that one forever to prevent the possibility of more paradoxes. 

Can anyone debunk that line of thought? IE does the universe act that way or is it all random? Are there other ways for it to be created besides retrocausality. When it reaches heat death is there another way for it to change besides a second big bang, like will parts of the universe split off, or will it decay into nothing. Answers to some of these questions might give me some peace until I can see my therapist. 

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I don't know if you like Science Fiction, but the novel by Poul Anderson might cheer you up . It has a positive ending or  recycling.

Tau Zero.

:)

Edited by studiot

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4 hours ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

Can anyone debunk that line of thought? 

!

Moderator Note

Hey, no moving backwards. This has already been done. Move along.

 

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4 hours ago, studiot said:

I don't know if you like Science Fiction, but the novel by Poul Anderson might cheer you up . It has a positive ending or  recycling.

Tau Zero.

:)

I do like sci fi. I am a big fan of Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Futurama. It was Futurama that first gave me this fear. The episode The Late Philip J Fry. 

Again is there anything against my logic? 

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:
!

Moderator Note

Hey, no moving backwards. This has already been done. Move along.

 

The irony of me constantly asking about this on a thread about things repeating isn't lost on me now LOL. 

I just want a kind of reassurance that my logic is flawed sorry. I wish I wasn't so stupid and worthless. 

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15 minutes ago, Breakdown 3456 said:

I wish I wasn't so stupid and worthless. 

!

Moderator Note

I'm going to suspend you for a bit, so you can talk to your therapist about some of these misconceptions you have. This type of discussion is quite obviously making things worse.

 

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