Moontanman

I get the feeling that agent smith has the mistaken idea that the orchid Mantis evolved in isolation from other animals. Carnivorous plants and mantises share a common ancestor to be sure but that ancestor was, in all probability, close to 2 billion years ago. Bacteria do not really follow the rules like most animals and plants, bacteria share DNA through gene transfer instead of sexual reproduction so a common ancestor in regards to bacteria is sort of a misrepresentation of the process. Gene transfer in bacteria can occur in wildly different microbes and the resulting pattern is far more like banyan tree than a standard evolutionary type tree with one trunk. (a banyan tree has multiple trunks) Animals do not become plants nor do plants become animals, the split between the three kingdoms of life, plants, fungi, and animals occurred way before any recognizable macro creatures evolved. Looking deeper into this i find the classification i am used to using is too simple to accurately describe the classification of life. Maybe this will clarify the situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_(biology) Doolittle_Web_of_Life.jpg.crdownload

Sounds like we are risking the Kessler syndrome by using anti satellite weapons. This is a real danger and could deny human access to space for a long period of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome I may have overstated the danger but the effect is real.

Interesting, does this indicate any real world consequences or is it too soon to really say?

The same reasons human scientists study things not interesting to the rest of us. In a large population of curious individuals there is bound to be someone who thinks studying human/alien civilizations is a worthy cause.

I'll respond if you will suggest one thing at a time instead of all encompassing answers like physics. That is as bad as a wall of text that has to be dissected, I'll also admit I am wrong as demonstrated numerous times in other threads.

That is because you set the bar too low, you seem to have to have the idea that our current technology is all we will ever have. I on the other hand, think that current technology can be extrapolated into the future as long as we stick to known physics. The only real barrier is power, unless we manage to get controlled fusion it's likely we will be stuck in the solar system for quite some time but Von Neumann machines might be our saving grace with a few advances in engineering. I would also like to address the OP, "no one out there cares about us" is like saying no one cares about the social structure of Amazon River Otters. In fact they are studied by several scientists and organizations for various reasons. Saying not one cares about us requires information no one has and suggests that aliens would not want to study us because we say they would not. Intelligence suggests curiosity, curiosity would suggest a pluralism of motivations by any intelligence ours or otherwise.

Ok, points taken, I withdraw my posts on this subject and apologise for being speculative.

I wasn't aware i was required to give a detailed engineering analysis of everything i post, no one seems to be required to do that, I can attempt to do so but I don't think I'm really qualified. I am not a nuclear engineer and i did say there would be problems with fission and that fusion would be preferred or do I need to give a detailed engineering paper on why this would be so? Actually, as i referred to, for many if not all the way out ideas I post these engineering details have been done by others, scientists and engineers on many of the things i suggest, from O'Neil cylinders, to nuclear powered space craft. If I really need to give the links to details of everything I post i will endeavor to do so, makes me feel special. Perhaps if you could be a bit more detailed than a one word response like "physics" I could better provide the details required

You cited physics as the reason aliens aren't here, I pointed out that physics is not a reason, engineering might be a problem but physics does not rule it out like it rules out FTL. The 20 year wait for fusion is a joke 🤣 The 20 year wait has been asserted since I was a teenager. The fact remains that star travel is not prohibited by physics, star travel is at worst an engineering problem... A problem than IMHO can be solved. Tons of uranium can be carried if need be for the fission reactor to be refueled many times over the course of the ships traveling. Still, I have to agree that fission isn't exactly the gold standard. If you are of the opinion that controlled fusion will never be solved I can't argue that point but it does seem rather pessimistic. I am glossing over nothing, you however evidently have no hope for the future being significantly more advanced than it is today.

Those are not hand waving, other than the sleeper ship, the only assumed technology we do not have is controlled fusion and everyone knows we'll have that in 20 years. I assumed no "Clark Tech" and other than the fusion, and fusion could conceivably be replaced by fission, the technology to do these things either exists or is in the realm of possibility. Hand waving would be aliens obviously have warp drive or something like that. My "hand waving" is based in reasonable advances in technology or technology that we could manage right now. No "Clark tech" is required for a generational ship, such things were being proposed by scientists in the 1950s and 60s. Interstellar travel is possible, very difficult, but still possible. In fact we currently have plans to send a probe to alpha centauri, with current tech, engineering problems have to be solved but there are no reasons why it couldn't be done. Warp drive however is improbable, not impossible but it's not simply an engineering problem, it is a physics problem unlike slow ships between stars. .

About time NASA got on the bandwagon, it would be embarrassing if aliens were confirmed and NASA wasn't in the loop 🍋🥥

Bufofrog, I'm going to have to withdraw this post, I spent three hours last night googling this and found out that the idea of " alcubierre drive" is still being debated and if I'm honest I have to admit the people who are on the side of "time travel" seem to have the best argument. In all honesty I'm pretty sure this is above my pay grade, I apologise for being so sure and flippant about it.

I have given several solutions to the premise, you have the possibility of generation ships, machine probes that make humans after they arrive at the system, some type of cold sleep to name but a few. Why do you dismiss these possibilities out of hand?

This is true but it would seem to point to a 4 bond chauvinism, life "not as we know it" could and probably would be so totally different that our current paradigms would be broken. But the rarity remains and the lack of boron compounds of oxygen that are gaseous remind me of the problems silicon has in the same vein. Of course other possible breathing gases remain but are so unusual that even speculating on them is difficult, hydrogen being the one speculated on the most.

It's true that one sighting debunked does not make for all sightings debunked. There are plenty of sightings that were "debunked" and that debunking was bumbled so badly that anyone with an ounce of skepticism would see the problems. Still doesn't make it ET but it does suggest a pattern of debunking that is deceptive at best and at worst a planned cover up of something extraordinary.

Both of you are of course correct, our current understanding of warp travel make them impractical if not impossible but IMHO I think it's a bit premature to "wipe warp drive" off the table. The hypothesis has changed greatly in the short time since it was proposed. Originally it needed more energy that is contained in the entire universe to work. The metrics have changed several times and I see no reason to say they cannot change further as research continues. I'm not saying warp drive will be possible but nothing would indicate it will not change further as research continues. If nothing else warp drive would be a great way to travel slower than light, this would open up the entire solar system in a way that we only dream of today. Also there are "warp drives" that do not use negative energy, in fact there are a great many different variations on the concept of warp drives.

That is not an answer, I could say the same thing when asked could they visit us. No they do not, physics is a non answer, it begs the question "why do physics prevent or allow" what ever the question is.

Really? A UAP landing near a school was debri from a satellite reentry?

Unless you are thinking of instantaneous communication this is not true. Travel takes a finite amount of time, you could not travel back to a time at your launch site before you launched. https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?list=PLh5Kb8DlWT5h8diVqIFyASeFv0XbWn4KA 06:53 This video explains why ftl is time travel but I think i see a problem with the explanation, they assume that a signal can be sent and that a STL ship could hear it and signal back at FTL speeds. I think if the FTL signal is impossible due to time travel because of the ship signaling backwards in time if you eliminate the FTL signal and have a FTL space craft that is casually isolated from the universe when traveling that paradox is avoided. Many versions of warp bubble travel state that the space craft is casually isolated.

You keep saying that aliens cannot or would not visit us, can you defend that statement?

I would suggest you have little to no knowledge about evolution or the forces that drive it. Evolution is a fact, it happens, irreducible complexity is a creationist fallacy that was proved wrong in court in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trail. While random mutations do occur they do not drive evolution. Since this is off topic i will not give a detailed defense of the science behind evolution.

The warp bubble isolates you from the rest of the universe while its on. Of course that makes steering a bit of thrill!

If I understand the current crop of FTL warp drives that are being proposed the spacecraft is causally isolated from the rest of the universe and this stops the time travel aspects.

Rare Earth was a great read but the concept has been shown to be a bit harsh if not completely irrelevant. Most of the rare earth parameters have been shown not to be so rare. The formation of the moon was one of the parameters that impressed me when I read the book but studies have shown that such large impacts are quite common and all the solar systems inner planets probably experienced such impacts. The formation of a large moon is probably not particularly rare.

Hmmm... Starts at 01:20 or so to 03:00 ... no evidence of course only my blind speculation based on what is possible.