Phi for All Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 This came up in a different thread when imatfaal tried to use "ignoral" to describe an instance of someone ignoring something. It follows the proper structure, but isn't in the dictionary. What would be the proper usage there? It's an odd case overall, I think, because "ignorance" means you don't know something, but "ignore" means you know about it but refuse to acknowledge it. So if you're guilty of an instance of ignorance, did you know or not? Or are ignore and ignorance not related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Obtuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not quite. He was trying to come up with a word (a noun) that means "the deliberate ignoring of". For no real reason other than it would have fitted in the sentence. "Ignoring" would probably do; it is the usual way to create a noun from a verb. To me, "ignoral" sounded plausible; it was obvious what he meant by it and I could imagine using it. I wasn't sure initially why that was. I assume because of analogy with other forms (which is one of the main ways we coin new words). But the obvious examples (e.g. season -> seasonal) all seem to go from noun to adjective. So it may not be a standard derivation. Imatfaal asked "is this a word". I say yes, but I guess some people might say that it isn't a word if it isn't in the dictionary. It's an odd case overall, I think, because "ignorance" means you don't know something, but "ignore" means you know about it but refuse to acknowledge it. So if you're guilty of an instance of ignorance, did you know or not? Or are ignore and ignorance not related? Apparently, ignore originally meant "to not know, be ignorant of". The sense of deliberately choosing not to know is later (although it doesn't say how much later). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 QUOTE: A word that means "the deliberate ignoring of". Shun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 QUOTE: A word that means "the deliberate ignoring of". Shun? Shunning, maybe (it needs to be a noun): "we do not allow soap-boxing (which is the continued indifference to / ignoral (*) of any counter-arguments or comments)" "we do not allow soap-boxing (which is the continued indifference to / ignoring of any counter-arguments or comments)" "we do not allow soap-boxing (which is the continued indifference to / shunning of any counter-arguments or comments)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 or 'disregarding' then, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ignorance should work as the noun, but it doesn't. If we said "we don't allow soapboxing (which is the continued insistence that one is right without offering evidence), insistence works as the noun for insist. But ignore has that pesky qualifier that you're doing it on purpose, whereas ignorance is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wilfully ignorant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 or 'disregarding' then, maybe. That is better - shunning, to me, seems like something you do to a person, not to an idea (or the idea of a person). But as both shunning and disregarding use the gerund as a noun, this suggests that the best term is probably ignoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wilfully ignorant Wilfnorant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ignorance should work as the noun, but it doesn't. If we said "we don't allow soapboxing (which is the continued insistence that one is right without offering evidence), insistence works as the noun for insist. But ignore has that pesky qualifier that you're doing it on purpose, whereas ignorance is innocent. Interestingly, igNORance does sound like it should work (by analogy with insistence) even though the usual pronunciation (IGn'rance) doesn't! So maybe it is the stress (and long o vowel) in ignoral that makes it sound right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Interestingly, igNORance does sound like it should work (by analogy with insistence) even though the usual pronunciation (IGn'rance) doesn't! So maybe it is the stress (and long o vowel) in ignoral that makes it sound right. You're right, I didn't even think about that, even though I was saying igNORance in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not quite. He was trying to come up with a word (a noun) that means "the deliberate ignoring of". For no real reason other than it would have fitted in the sentence. "Ignoring" would probably do; it is the usual way to create a noun from a verb. To me, "ignoral" sounded plausible; it was obvious what he meant by it and I could imagine using it. I wasn't sure initially why that was. I assume because of analogy with other forms (which is one of the main ways we coin new words). But the obvious examples (e.g. season -> seasonal) all seem to go from noun to adjective. So it may not be a standard derivation. Imatfaal asked "is this a word". I say yes, but I guess some people might say that it isn't a word if it isn't in the dictionary. Apparently, ignore originally meant "to not know, be ignorant of". The sense of deliberately choosing not to know is later (although it doesn't say how much later). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ignore A better explanation than I would have given. FYG the analogy I had in mind was refer -> referral which I think fits better. Interestingly, igNORance does sound like it should work (by analogy with insistence) even though the usual pronunciation (IGn'rance) doesn't! So maybe it is the stress (and long o vowel) in ignoral that makes it sound right. Agree again - it is the same intonation / stress pattern as referral which was my pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 the analogy I had in mind was refer -> referral which I think fits better. Perfect! The example here: https://faculty.unlv.edu/nagelhout/ENG411Bs12C/mod1concept1.html is refuse -> refusal They define the -al morpheme as meaning "act or process of", which fits with your usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wilfully ignorant That's a good one. My dad uses premeditated stupidity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonDie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 They define the -al morpheme as meaning "act or process of", which fits with your usage.GlobalTemporal Minimal Optimal Postal Doctoral Pharyngeal Mesial Distal Proximal I don't see it. I would say Ignoral - stemming from the tendency to ignore, or characteristic of such individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not quite. He was trying to come up with a word (a noun) that means "the deliberate ignoring of". For no real reason other than it would have fitted in the sentence. "Ignoring" would probably do; it is the usual way to create a noun from a verb. To me, "ignoral" sounded plausible; it was obvious what he meant by it and I could imagine using it. I wasn't sure initially why that was. I assume because of analogy with other forms (which is one of the main ways we coin new words). But the obvious examples (e.g. season -> seasonal) all seem to go from noun to adjective. So it may not be a standard derivation. Imatfaal asked "is this a word". I say yes, but I guess some people might say that it isn't a word if it isn't in the dictionary. Apparently, ignore originally meant "to not know, be ignorant of". The sense of deliberately choosing not to know is later (although it doesn't say how much later). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ignore refer -> referral deny -> denial peruse -> perusal -al has two uses. noun -> adjective and verb -> noun So you were right the first time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Like stacks of other words in English, the word "ignorance" has more than one meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym This "we do not allow soap-boxing (which is the continued indifference to / ignorance of any counter-arguments or comments)" is perfectly correct. Unfortunately it's likely to be misunderstood; something else that happens a lot in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Global Temporal Minimal Optimal Postal Doctoral Pharyngeal Mesial Distal Proximal I don't see it. Some of your examples are words that just happen to end in -al, not formed from the morpheme -al. In other case, they follow the definition (e.g. post->postal, doctor->doctoral) ... bearing in mind that the semantics of bound morphemes is quite broad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now