The US (split from Blow to US Democracy)

[studiot]

If things are really as bad as painted, it's funny how many Mexicans want to get into the US, and that number is rising again.

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, Firebirdy said:

American children and teenagers have an unhealthy waking schedule when they go to their public schools.

Can you tell me what your affiliation is to the US? I notice you are in Iceland but you spend a lot of time complaining about America. It might help me understand the basis of your questions.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

It's been scientifically proven that the American public schools have detrimental schedules for teenagers who have different needs than children do because teenagers need more sleep and have a harder time falling asleep than children do because of teenagers' hormones from puberty that made it harder for them to fall asleep before 11:00 P.M.

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

This has been detrimental to American teenagers' psychological health

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

The American public schools also have foods and drinks that are detrimental to the American children and teenagers' psychological health

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

The American public schools have a system that values grades, standardised tests, and G.P.A. more than the ability to learn.

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

American public schools are anti-intellectual indoctrination camps that are designed to bully students' psychological health, physical health, and ability to learn

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

there is American military terrorism. Which war breeds sociopaths, psychopaths, rapists, criminals, and psychologically traumatised people

Citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

Which is why the Europeans have higher I.Q.s, healthier bodies, wealthier societies, more scientific literacy, more mathematical literacy, less sociopaths, less psychopaths, less rapists, less criminals, and other things than the American society does on average.

Citation, citation, citation, citation, citation...

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

America because America is falling apart due to moral bankruptcy, decreasing amount of healthy citizens, increasing wealth gap, the abusive for-profit prison industry, the American military terrorism, increasing mass shootings, religious terrorist leaders from the American southern states who are trying to defund American public schools and fund private religious schools to replace scientific thinking with religious thinking in America, sexist double standards that abuse people based on their biological sex in court rooms, and other things.

One big giant citation please.

2 hours ago, Firebirdy said:

The lack of a social safety net and scientific literacy in America are why there have been people who permanently left America due to this pandemic to live in the European countries

Yep, another citation requested.

Otherwise I'm afraid you might be breaking the rules by soapboxing.

[John Cuthber]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:30 PM, zapatos said:

Tough to tell without any references.

Vey easy to google

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/4010044/charity-overview

[iNow]

17 hours ago, zapatos said:

Citation please.

Some of those claims are questionable (like IQ in the EU being higher, for example), but there’s good backing to support the ideas of school starting later and needing to have more nutritional choices. 

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyschools/features/eating_healthier.htm

[zapatos]

3 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Vey easy to google

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/4010044/charity-overview

I'm a little confused by your position. You commonly ask for citations, frequently including that little comic with the guy holding the sign up.

As I mentioned I did Google Wycliffe but didn't understand what dim was getting at. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, iNow said:

Some of those claims are questionable (like IQ in the EU being higher, for example), but there’s good backing to support the ideas of school starting later and needing to have more nutritional choices. 

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyschools/features/eating_healthier.htm

Thanks for those. While I'm aware of issues regarding sleep for students and food options in school cafeterias, I was questioning that it was "scientifically proven...hormones from puberty that made it harder for them to fall asleep before 11:00pm." Seems weirdly specific that our hormones are tied to the clock. I would have thought screen time and other issues were the main driver for keeping kids awake in the evenings. If children go to bed earlier, do they still need to sleep later?

And while I was aware the poor foods were a problem to poor physical health, I did not know that food choices were negatively impacting "teenagers' psychological health".

[dimreepr]

25 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I'm a little confused by your position. You commonly ask for citations, frequently including that little comic with the guy holding the sign up.

As I mentioned I did Google Wycliffe but didn't understand what dim was getting at.

I did try to explain...

 

On 3/19/2021 at 12:59 PM, dimreepr said:

I thought it was common knowledge and I thought I'd linked to https://www.wycliffe.co.uk/terms-conditions/#:~:text=2.4 Wycliffe is a registered,regulated by the Charity Commission. in my reply.

As to the point...

I don't think this part is unsubstantiated (I haven't read the rest), my post was an attempt to show how corruption can turn a virtue bad. 

I think the founding father's of the USA, tried to write a virtuous and corruption proof set of rules; and as much as making the education of the poor a charity is virtuous; charity itself is corrupted when it benefits the wealthy.

What else is there to discuss?

 

[zapatos]

8 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I did try to explain...

I know. I was there. Sorry I didn't get it.

[John Cuthber]

51 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I'm a little confused by your position. You commonly ask for citations, ...

Actually I rarely ask for them- unless there is good grounds to suspect that the assertion is untrue, or, at least, speculative.

 

Whereas the fact that the UK public schools are charities is well known and easily checked.

[zapatos]

24 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Actually I rarely ask for them- unless there is good grounds to suspect that the assertion is untrue, or, at least, speculative.

 

Whereas the fact that the UK public schools are charities is well known and easily checked.

Thanks for the tip. Is there any other behavior of mine that you'd like me to modify?

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

I know. I was there. Sorry I didn't get it.

I'm sorry too, I didn't explain it well enough; did you?

[zapatos]

Just now, dimreepr said:

I'm sorry too, I didn't explain it well enough; did you?

Did I explain what well enough?

 

[dimreepr]

6 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Did I explain what well enough?

 

Citation needed...

It's a two way street...

 

[zapatos]

3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Citation needed...

It's a two way street...

 

Apparently not.

I'll try again on the off chance anyone cares about this silly side discussion we've been having.

I felt Firebirdy was wrong to make so many questionable assertions without any supporting evidence and so said:

"I've never seen so many unsubstantiated claims in one post since I've been here."

To which you replied:

 

"Sometimes one has to search through the shit to get the answer, for instance, public/private/privileged school's, in Britain are charities... 😉"

Since you responded directly to me I thought you were either in support of what I said or in opposition, but I could not tell. I had no idea why you were bringing up British charities, I had no knowledge that schools in Britain were charities, but in an attempt to understand what point you were trying to make I asked if Firebirdy's unsubstantiated claim (the thing we were talking about) was different than your unsubstantiated claim.

 

"I'm unsure how your unsubstantiated claim of schools as charities is any better than Firebirdy's claim of schools as concentration camps."

As is your style, you did not answer directly but instead gave an example of a school that was a charity, and another school that was a state school.

"Wycliffe college, for instance is a charity... While Maidenhill is a state school."

Alright, now I'm really confused. Why are we talking about British schools? What do they have to do with whether or not Firebirdy's claims should be substantiated?

Frankly I have no idea WTF this sidebar is all about.

 

 

 

[beecee]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:33 AM, beecee said:

Sounds like the start of a long, boring rant.

 

On 3/18/2021 at 7:55 PM, John Cuthber said:

Doesn't stop it being true. The major error seems to be that they still think the Chinese are communists.

Of course some of it may be true. Let me exxplain my comment more fully. No society is perfect, including the USA and Australia also. And much should be done to improve a society so as to see justice and fairness to all, and eliminate that which prevents justice and fairness to all. While western society in general, is greatly similar, my personal criticisms of American society [is where it does differ from others] is in relation to their archaic gun laws and lack of any universal health care.

I see the OP as a rant by some extreme person because its "blanket claims" seem to convey a picture of American society [and by extent other western nations]as an oligarchical republic and other like remarks, thereby spoiling and invalidating areas of truth with regards to what can be and should be improved. I mentioned a couple of those areas earlier. If I'm not explaining myself clear enough, let me finish with an example. As a union delegate in the mid sixties, I took part in a couple of anti Vietnam war marches or moratoriums. It was a cause close to my heart. The marches were all peaceful, until we were "infiltrated" by an extreme left political orginization called the "Socialist Labor League" whose actual sole aim [as obviously fruitless and impossible it was] was to overthrow the current democratic system in Australia. I know this because somehow they got hold of my address, and started calling at my home in the evenings, until I less then politely told them to f$#@ off. 

I also have a personal theory relating to politics in general and America and Australia particularly. The USA has just thankfully ousted the most foul President in its history, who lied and cajoled his way through American society over 4 years. Australia also has an extreme right PM as our leader, but thankfully, as yet Australia would not ever put up with the antics and shenanigans that America did with Trump. The UK also I believe has its problems with their PM. My theory [OK, lets call it an hypothesis] is that the rise in extreme left ideology, particularly with political correctness being taken too far, has seen [as a force of balance so to speak] the rise of people like Trump and the extreme right and their extreme appeals to the basic fears of some with regards to racism, sexism etc. Let me explain further. Without going into too  much detail, I was accused by what I claim to be a feminazi as a sexist mysoginist person. Why? Because I generally address people whom I don't know as mate or matey [if its a male] and love [if its a female]. I gave the following example when after some home renovations, I was having a problem with paying the builder via B pay online, so I decided to visit the bank. I informed the female teller of the problem and she took the time to explain fully how I should go about the payment and directed me to another bank. I was delighted and particularly pleased with her service and help, and said "gee thanks love, you're a bloody Angel" This was seen by the feminazi as sexist, despite the reply and reaction I got back. The teller [around 45ish/50ish years old] laughed heartedly and said "Ahh you're a sweety, glad to be of help, and if you need anymore don't hesitate to come back". It's called common banter between strangers and at least in my country is not in the slightest a form of sexism or mysogeny. I could give hundreds of examples.

Anyway that's the end of my rant. I hope I have made my point clear.

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

I'll try again on the off chance anyone cares about this silly side discussion we've been having.

OK, let's unpack this "silly side discussion":

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

I felt Firebirdy was wrong to make so many questionable assertions without any supporting evidence and so said:

"I've never seen so many unsubstantiated claims in one post since I've been here."

To which you replied: 

"Sometimes one has to search through the shit to get the answer, for instance, public/private/privileged school's, in Britain are charities... 😉"

You'll note in my reply, I don't disagree with you "Sometimes one has to search through the shit to get the answer", I even included a smiley wink...

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

Since you responded directly to me I thought you were either in support of what I said or in opposition, but I could not tell.

Yet you chose, without due diligence, to tar me with the same brush, and accuse me of an unsubstantiated claim rather than seek clarification...

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

As is your style, you did not answer directly but instead gave an example of a school that was a charity, and another school that was a state school.

You're showing your bias here, instead of asking for clarity, you chose to try and belittle me. As in a recent thread of mine, where you implied I was stoned rather than offer an argument...

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

Why are we talking about British schools? What do they have to do with whether or not Firebirdy's claims should be substantiated?

 

23 hours ago, dimreepr said:

As to the point...

I don't think this part is unsubstantiated (I haven't read the rest), my post was an attempt to show how corruption can turn a virtue bad. 

I think the founding father's of the USA, tried to write a virtuous and corruption proof set of rules; and as much as making the education of the poor a charity is virtuous; charity itself is corrupted when it benefits the wealthy.

Which is very pertinent to the first paragraph of the OP, or do you doubt that corruption by the wealthy makes a mockery of democracy?

No where do I deny the OP is largely talking bollox, I just thought this one point was worthy of discussion.

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

OK, let's unpack this "silly side discussion":

You'll note in my reply, I don't disagree with you "Sometimes one has to search through the shit to get the answer", I even included a smiley wink...

Yet you chose, without due diligence, to tar me with the same brush, and accuse me of an unsubstantiated claim rather than seek clarification...

You're showing your bias here, instead of asking for clarity, you chose to try and belittle me. As in a recent thread of mine, where you implied I was stoned rather than offer an argument...

 

Which is very pertinent to the first paragraph of the OP, or do you doubt that corruption by the wealthy makes a mockery of democracy?

No where do I deny the OP is largely talking bollox, I just thought this one point was worthy of discussion.

I'm sorry but I often have a hard time understanding points you are trying to make. I'll keep it to myself next time.

[dimreepr]

19 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I'm sorry but I often have a hard time understanding points you are trying to make. I'll keep it to myself next time.

I'd rather you didn't, what else can we discuss?

Edited March 21, 2021 by dimreepr