Transgender athletes

[zapatos]

10 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

You cant have a competition with rules that were based on old definitions and expect it to continue to function properly without evolving to include/consider changed/new definitions, that would be illogical.  

 

Again, you are the one who is saying how they need to change the definition to function. No one else.

[Intoscience]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

You are the one advocating for them to change it. They are not attempting to change it themselves. They are attempting to integrate transgender women into the competition

I'm not, I'm advocating that in order to integrate transgender then the rules should consider the new definition of what a woman is. 

They are not changing the definitions, society (a  group of) are changing the definition. The governing bodies are attempting to integrate this new definition into sporting categories.  

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

Again, you are the one who is saying how they need to change the definition to function. No one else.

I'm not!!! The rules have to consider the new definition to enable integration. How that is achieved is beyond me since the original definition was fundamentally based on biology. Now its not, so now the ruling boards need to consider this. 

[CharonY]

48 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

How that is achieved is beyond me since the original definition was fundamentally based on biology.

Only partially. As we discussed many times before, it was always the case that some folks fell through the cracks. Sex was typically assigned at birth based on external sex organs, which sometimes misaligns with the karyotype, for example. The societal change really is not the definition, it is the desire not to ignore these people anymore.

[swansont]

45 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

I never advocated it was. There is an undeniable difference between male and female physical performance. The current world athletic championships highlight this as we speak. So where predominantly does that extra performance come from? cause it sure aint all just psychological. It comes from physiological attributes that are fundamentally biological differences.  

And yet there has been very little discussion about biological differences that goes beyond the chromosomes, as compared to references to XX vs XY. 

[quasiorder]

On 8/21/2023 at 7:13 AM, Intoscience said:

What does this mean? How does a person authenticate their chosen identity? And how does that map with actual biology or physical attributes? 

I think this is where things get a little muddy and where we need definitions that we all align to. Personally I would prefer to align with fact based definitions rather than psychological based feelings, opinions or beliefs.  

You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should study basic biology before commenting on a subject that you don't even understand, although I suppose that would be expecting too much from your typical redneck bigot who probably didn't even graduate high school.

Whether you personally understand someone's identity or not is irrelevant. That is not for you to decide or dictate. People choose their OWN identity. All they matters is how they IDENTIFY. Now you can claim that's "morally wrong" and you can claim that it "woke" or that it goes against you "personal values", but ultimately nobody asked you and nobody cares about your opinion.

[CharonY]

9 minutes ago, swansont said:

And yet there has been very little discussion about biological differences that goes beyond the chromosomes, as compared to references to XX vs XY. 

Also, that is not even what is commonly used. AFAIK karyotyping is really only done when indicated (such as in cases of IVF). Ultrasound is usually the first point of assigning sex (i.e. genital development). 

[Phi for All]

57 minutes ago, quasiorder said:

You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should study basic biology before commenting on a subject that you don't even understand, although I suppose that would be expecting too much from your typical redneck bigot who probably didn't even graduate high school.

Whether you personally understand someone's identity or not is irrelevant. That is not for you to decide or dictate. People choose their OWN identity. All they matters is how they IDENTIFY. Now you can claim that's "morally wrong" and you can claim that it "woke" or that it goes against you "personal values", but ultimately nobody asked you and nobody cares about your opinion.

!

Moderator Note

We're trying to discuss ideas here, which includes attacking or supporting them accordingly. We try NOT to attack people here, so we can maintain some civility and a safe space to have a conversation about a very nuanced topic. Everyone would appreciate your insight into the topic without calling people names or making assumptions about their character. Thanks for understanding.

 

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, Intoscience said:

the rules should consider the new definition of what a woman is. 

Please tell me what that new definition is. Because if you cannot, then how can they possibly consider it?

2 hours ago, Intoscience said:

The governing bodies are attempting to integrate this new definition into sporting categories.  

Please show an example of where they are doing this and what that new definition is.

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

The rules have to consider the new definition to enable integration.

NO THEY DON'T!!!!!!! 

They've ALREADY allowed trans women to compete WITHIN THE TRADITIONAL WOMEN'S CATEGORY!!!