HadesRuinedTheParty

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How will you handle people who disagree and hold an opposing view?

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I am slowly starting to believe advocating for a full on firearms ban (all firearms) is the best position. It seems the only way to meet the hyperbole on the right in the middle is to first establish an opposite position to theirs. All we seem to have in the U.S. are pro gun advocates and pro gun moderates who perpetually inch to the right looking for middle ground. Perhaps if a real opposing position existed then to could an appreciation for moderation? Instead things like background checks, which in a sane debate should be moderate, is a leftist position which must adopt middle ground compromise to even be considered. Those who'd like to every see gun control reform passed need to stop negotiated themselves to the right before they ever even get themselves to the actually negotiating table. 

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On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:10 PM, iNow said:

How will you handle people who disagree and hold an opposing view?

I would like to hear everyone's input on gun control simply

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3 minutes ago, HadesRuinedTheParty said:

I would like to hear everyone's input on gun control simply

I think the majority here would agree with this:

 

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DALLAS, Texas (KTRK) --

A Dallas police officer returning home from work shot and killed a neighbor after she said she mistook his apartment for her own, police said Friday.

The officer called dispatch to report that she had shot the man Thursday night, police said. She told responding officers that she believed the victim's apartment was her own when she entered it.

The responding officers administered first aid to the victim, whom the Dallas County medical examiner's office identified as 26-year-old Botham Jean. He was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead.

Police haven't released the name of the officer, who wasn't injured. She will be placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation, police said.

https://abc13.com/police-dallas-officer-fatally-shoots-man-after-going-into-wrong-apartment/4171229/

 

The way gun laws and self defense laws (stand your ground) are written here in the U.S. I am not sure this Officer broke the law. That is how absolutely out of control our laws are. I suspect the Officer loses her job but probably little else. This is perfect example  where had the gun simply not been present everyone would be alive and well today. The officer either would have ran out of the apartment and been realized she was in the wrong place while talking to the man.

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35 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

The way gun laws and self defense laws (stand your ground) are written here in the U.S. I am not sure this Officer broke the law. That is how absolutely out of control our laws are. I suspect the Officer loses her job but probably little else. This is perfect example  where had the gun simply not been present everyone would be alive and well today. The officer either would have ran out of the apartment and been realized she was in the wrong place while talking to the man.

The least armed officers can do is leave their firearms at their station when they sign off.

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16 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

The least armed officers can do is leave their firearms at their station when they sign off.

I agree they should leave them in a safe at work as well however I fear I am in the minority here in the U.S. . Even among moderates and people who favor more gun control I doubt many would have an issue with police bring their guns home.

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32 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

I agree they should leave them in a safe at work as well however I fear I am in the minority here in the U.S. . Even among moderates and people who favor more gun control I doubt many would have an issue with police bring their guns home.

Thinking on: at the time of the incident she wasn't an active police officer and, as a civilian, walked into somebody's flat armed and shot him. This is a home invasion.

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30 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Thinking on: at the time of the incident she wasn't an active police officer and, as a civilian, walked into somebody's flat armed and shot him. This is a home invasion.

In my opinion it is Second Degree Murder. If roles were reversed and it was the man walking into the Police Officer's apartment and killing her First Degree Murder charges might be possible. One only needs to recall the Trayvon Martin case to know that the law isn't interpreted the same for everyone though. The Officer legally was armed, can easily make the case that she was afraid for her life (iron clad argument in the U.S.), and called it in after shooting the guy. On paper the only error she made was accidentally walking into the wrong apartment. Without being able to show that she knowingly entered the wrong apartment no jury in the U.S. would convict her of a crime in my opinion. Rather than criminal charges I am guess the family will have to sue for wrongful death. That is winnable. Hopefully I am wrong but the officer was not arrested and as of the latest updates I have seen she hasn't even been officially questioned yet. 

In my opinion this is a case that highlights one of the failures of our loose gun laws. Law doesn't require any higher levels of responsibility for those who are armed. So in this case that fact she was armed when accidentally entered the home carries additional weight. Then there is the fearing for ones life criterion. One doesn't actually have to be in danger, even if armed, they simply need to reasonably believe they are in danger. Again, no additional responsibility for being armed. 

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Dallas police said Friday they are seeking a warrant for manslaughter against one of their own after an off-duty officer entered the wrong apartment in her building and killed a man who was inside.

Police Chief Reneé Hall said a blood sample was drawn at her request to test the officer's drug and alcohol levels and "we are in the process of obtaining a warrant based on the circumstances."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dallas-officer-enters-apartment-she-mistakes-her-own-fatally-shoots-n907411

 

Better than I feared. Looks like they will at least pursue manslaughter charges.

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55 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Better than I feared. Looks like they will at least pursue manslaughter charges.

I can understand the relative slowness of saying anything; they need to get all the facts. What disturbs me is that he's black. They are disproportionately represented in police shootings.

Edited by StringJunky

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51 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I can understand the relative slowness of saying anything; they need to get all the facts. What disturbs me is that he's black. They are disproportionately represented in police shootings.

I understand but don't approve of the slowness. The office walked into a person's home and killed them. Had she not been a police officer she would have been arrested at the scene. The charge would also be more than manslaughter. This happened in Texas, capital punishment leader of the U.S.. manslaughter as an initial charge (most charges are lowered in pre-trial) is a slap on the wrist for murder. 

Edited by Ten oz

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The fact that it's an off duty copper seems irrelevant.

In which case will there be a sudden outbreak of people "accidentally going into the wrong apartment and shooting  the occupier".
If this case sets a precedent, why won't others do the same thing?

 

 

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43 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

The fact that it's an off duty copper seems irrelevant.

In which case will there be a sudden outbreak of people "accidentally going into the wrong apartment and shooting  the occupier".
If this case sets a precedent, why won't others do the same thing?

2

They do, stand your ground law doesn't specify the ground other than a legal reason to be there, I heard someone shout "please help", seems a bit of a loophole.

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7 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

So, it's not just that gun "control" laws that are insane...

If only.

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6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

The fact that it's an off duty copper seems irrelevant.

In which case will there be a sudden outbreak of people "accidentally going into the wrong apartment and shooting  the occupier".
If this case sets a precedent, why won't others do the same thing?

 

 

Whom is breaking the law in the U.S. is always relevant as the being broke, sadly. That is why some many people protest our Justice system. Our President is an unindicted co-conspirator to felon campaign finance crimes  yet he threatens and bullies Law Enforcement official on social media form the White House much of the country is okay with it. Colin Kaepernick quietly took a knee (100% legal) and he his professional sports career is over. That is what Justice in the U.S. looks like. 

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On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 4:49 PM, HadesRuinedTheParty said:

What Do you think about gun control? I think that there should be a ban on Citizens using assault weapons 

I agree.

When I travelled to Alaska, I bought a hunting rifle while I'm a Belgian citizen(no registration law). By filling in some papers I took it legally into Canada.

The fact that this was possible, legal and so simple to do is imo frightening.

Edited by Itoero

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Alaska is not in Canada.
And although similar to our Yukon Territory, the laws are not the same.

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3 minutes ago, MigL said:

Alaska is not in Canada.
And although similar to our Yukon Territory, the laws are not the same.

Well, blow me down, I've had that wrong for getting on half a century.  :o 

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Since I'm new here, I'll tell you from the onset that I'm not a rabid gun control advocate.  I believe the most effective and efficient way to reduce gun crime in this country is to address our violent culture through programs that educate adolescents. 

The fact is that gun crime in this country overall has been on a steady decline for the last 20-30 years despite a steady increase of guns over the same period.  So above all, I believe that we our a society consisting of responsible adults capable of owning dangerous tools.   I'm hopeful that through ongoing CDC research and their recommendations that this decline in crime will continue.

I believe in self defense, however, after viewing video of a shooting at a convenience store in Clearwater, Fl.  I believe the problems with stand your ground laws needs to be addressed immediately.

 

On 9/7/2018 at 8:07 PM, StringJunky said:

What disturbs me is that he's black. They are disproportionately represented in police shootings.

Do you have any thoughts on why that may be?

 

13 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

will there be a sudden outbreak of people "accidentally going into the wrong apartment and shooting  the occupier".
If this case sets a precedent, why won't others do the same thing?

Because most people aren't murderous arseholes looking for an excuse to kill their neighbor, nor do they live in areas where it's easy to mistake where it is they actually live.
Even if they did, the odds are that they wouldn't have a gun anyway.  It would then be extremely suspicious to buy your first gun and shoot your neighbor shortly thereafter, especially if there was a documented history or witnesses of a negative relationship between the two.

Furthermore, you couldn't really use this defense to "accidentally" walk into the wrong apartment miles away from your own and shoot the occupant, especially if you had a previous relationship with this person and thus a possible motive to shoot them in the first place.

 

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8 minutes ago, DirtyChai said:

Do you have any thoughts on why that may be?

Unconscious bias

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4 minutes ago, iNow said:

Unconscious bias

Yes, in a nutshell. It's a knee jerk reaction of fear or suspicion to anyone of colour.

Edited by StringJunky

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11 minutes ago, iNow said:
20 minutes ago, DirtyChai said:

Do you have any thoughts on why that may be?

Unconscious bias

7 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Yes, in a nutshell. It's a knee jerk reaction of fear or suspicion to anyone of colour.

Ya, most likely in some cases, but probably not most.

I have a bit perspective I'd like to share,  but it's getting late and will probably have to wait till tomorrow. 

 

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