Moontanman

When the US Air Force hired Edward Condon to do the Condon Report, Condon Report Critique, he was quoted as saying "The real trick will be to give the impression of an impartial scientific study while knowing there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon" J.Allen Hynek, who the air force hired to study UFOs, eventually quit Project Blue Book and basically went over to the "dark" side said his reason was the the Air Force wasn't interested in actually investigating anything and actually withheld important info to facilitate their debunking and all they wanted him to do was find something... anything... they could blame a sighting on no matter if it was accurate.

Asimov detailed it out but that was 50+ years ago so I don't remember the exact details but I do remember his talking about that very thing. He coined it as a saturation unsaturation cycle involving fats replacing proteins. He also stated that a lung full of high pressure hydrogen, I assume he was thinking this planet would have a deep atmosphere, would contain many orders of magnitude more hydrogen than a lung full of our air would oxygen but don't remember the details beyond that. I wish I still had that book, I've tried to find it but it's one of his more obscure titles.

You should contact Livermore labs.

I remember reading a book by Isaac Asimov where he described a planet where hydrogen was the breathing gas instead of oxygen, more recently Sara Seager has suggested that hycean worlds might support life. The bio chemistry of a metazoan that breathes hydrogen would be very interesting.

So there is no information to be gleaned from old studies of anything else? And I agree yet this is not what science driven by the US gov is doing. France seems to be doing their best to improve their information by supporting the investigations. The US does its best to suppress information and investigation. The US has be shown to be guilty of outright lies and deception in its "scientific" investigations. And yet I have presented evidence of this ridicule, many times, Avi Loeb is currently experiencing this according to interviews he has done recently. His own colleges are engaging in this ridicule, the word crackpot is being thrown around. And yet the gov of France continues to do science while the US gov ridicules the source. Maybe the poor quality is due to the lack of rigor among the people who want the investigations to die.

So nothing conclusive means no value? Maybe in 20 years we'll have controlled fusion, we've only been pursuing this for 80 years or so and it's always just 20 years away but we continue to gather info hoping that eventually we will figure it out. Gathering accurate data about something potentially so important is never a useless endeavor. Ridiculing something because you just can't imagine how it could be possible is such a great way to figure something out.

https://cnes.fr/en/web/CNES-en/5866-geipan-uap-investigation-unit-opens-its-files.php

Interesting, I honestly thought hydrogen in the form of protons was the energy of the cell, I seem to be lost in the bushes on this. I know there are bacteria that produce free hydrogen as part of their metabolism and bacteria that use free hydrogen as an energy source and give off methane as waste and of course there are bacteria that consume methane... brings back memories of why I was so obsessed with biochemistry in high school. I love the complexity and order of chemistry.

I think it's interesting that different countries have different attitudes about this phenomenon. France seems to have the most progressive attitude with serious research being done via actual experts being employed by the government to investigate sightings. The USA seems to have to have the most repressive systems that appear to be geared toward ridiculing the sources to poison the well rather than investigation to find the truth... interesting how the same subject is treated by different schools of thought. Investigate the sources or ridicule the sources... which is scientific?

What is the significance of the H2? Is it fuel, waste, or something else?

I was wondering the same thing, when I first heard of this I thought they were metabolizing hydrogen but it clearly states that molecular hydrogen is produced not used.

Shit, I deleted the point before I posted.

A group of metazoans known as Loricifera contain at least three species that live their entire lives without oxygen. They depend on mitochondria like organelles called Hydrogenosomes. These organelles allow the organism to produce energy in the absence of oxygen, they live in anoxic sediments. Not considered uniquely evolved from a new organism but actually degenerate mitochondria. . Spinoloricus cinziae was found in 2014.

A marine algae and a nitrogen fixing bacteria have officially teamed up and the bacteria has become a new organelle inside a marine algae. The teaming up of nitrogen fixing bacteria and plants Is not a new (Azolla carolinensis) is one but the bacteria is just in a communal relationship with the plant but this bacteria has actually become an organelle inside the algae cells much like mitochondria or chloroplasts in other cells, this new organelle has been dubbed Nitroplast. https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2024/04/17/scientists-discover-first-nitrogen-fixing-organelle/ I am remembering reading of another animal that has evolved something similar that allowed it live in anoxic water in the black sea. If I remember correctly it was a ctenophore, anyone remember this?

That is sad All you have to do is make a report, no claims are necessary to labeled a nut.

Then people who want to know what is going on are never going to know because its a random event? And by the way, I do not claim them to be alien, I claim them to be unknown, I specifically said they look like technology, the question is who's tech is it. I never assume aliens, if nothing else I do know the phenomena cannot be shown to be anything specific at this point. Personally I have wondered since I was a kid if these things might be some sort of natural atmospheric phenomena we simply do not understand. The only way we will ever know is for the phenomena to be studied, all we currently have are reports, pics, and videos from regular people... does that mean we should simply ignore those people's reports? Tell them they are nuts? Call them liars? There are some really good well substantiated reports out there, do we ignore them because I scientist didn't manage to measure them with special equipment? If so then we will never know. One thing I believe to be relevant, simply saying a photo is irrelevant because a scientist didn't take it under controlled conditions is how science dies.

Very good points, I doubt very seriously we will get a definitive explanation here from videos of unknown providence but it is all we have to work with. I have to admit that the second one does look an awful lot like a mylar balloon, the first one is probably a drone, ( the idea of drones threatening aircraft is scarier than aliens to me) but this is not the point. We will have to look at a lot of frogs to see a prince and just maybe there is no prince, knowing something is a frog is as useful as not being able to explain it. The military will not share its files with anyone, scientist or not, everything we regular people do is dismissed out of hand due to unknown providence. We have no idea what if anything the military has or knows but we do know they lie their asses off out of hand, probably a habit from the cold war. How are we supposed to investigate a report if it is rejected out of hand because a scientist didn't see it while using instruments that conform to scientific rigor? Its very frustrating to see all the reports and know that no matter what they will be dismissed due to not knowing what were are looking at which is the very question we are trying to answer. This is important because there are reports, pics, videos of inexplicable things that have not been explained adequately but were dismissed due to what is basically "unknown providence" age or both. How does not knowing what something is negate trying to figure it out? Could a discussion even be possible under the current requirements of scientific rigor? I think the assumption that they cannot be real is interfering with any real investigation and this leaves it all to crazy people on you tube to expound on the reports and bla bla bla, crazy stuff, look at the pic, bla bla bla, more crazy, while all but ignoring the meat of the report... ie someone saw something, they filmed it, then the media gets hold of it and a circus results. This will do nothing but harden the idea that all UFOs are just insanity incarnate. I suggest that we try to critique the actual sighting, at least initially, independent of what Joe Rogan says or some other person who's career depends on likes on their channel. Are these two reports the end all be all or even the current best? No they were just two that came up recently, a deep dive would require considerable effort culling through the media circus surrounding this current situation. There is a lot of shady BS going on around this, I have to admit that while I do not like it much some of the the people who are involved in this have an agenda and that agenda is chaos not understanding. As an example Skinwalker Ranch is a con, a grift, nothing more than a source of chaos for Bigelow Aerospace and conning the gov out of millions of dollars. I'd post a video of that report but its just a youtube video. The grifters having such a strong interest in this is driving me away from et as a explanation, seriously I have been wrestling with this, I think the people behind atip are grifters. A more troubling report that is or was dismissed involved a B47 bomber and a several page long report.. I posted it here but the report was from too long ago to excite anyone evidently and of course the original info is in the possession of the military and they aren't talking. I honestly feel like there is something going on here that needs to be monitored at the very least. It looks like technology, the real question is who's is it, that is what needs to be answered, with all the obfuscation going on around this thing by the military, congress, and even science... it honestly makes me wonder if something extraordinary is going on... I just can't say what. I'll say this, when I post a report here it is not an attempt at a gotcha, not a hey look at this hahaha. If I see something that makes me go Hmmm, I want others I respect to tell me what they see, so I post it. Unless new info cames in I think the first one is most probably a drone, the second one... I'm not so sure about but unless new info comes in, I think that one is iffy, but probably a balloon. Other takes on this are welcome! There are a couple more I want to discuss but I'll have to either edit them out of a video or post the entire video and post the time stamp. Ah hates auto correct!

What did you think of the second video? My own take on it... I just can't get past the possibility its a mylar balloon but most people say it appears to maneuver and that would discount the balloon idea.

I agree, drones are definitely obfuscating the issue! This one doesn't look like a typical drone to me, its cylindrical shape is odd for a drone but with the evidence at hand drone is more likely. I posted this because it was recent and almost certainly not a hoax and was videoed recently and what ever it was it clearly presented a possible danger to aircraft in the area and shouldn't be ignored no matter what it is. I've seen quite a few "interesting" looking videos of late but I've refrained from posting them, not being sure if its proper to the forum. If no one objects I will post some of the most interesting on here. I know that since their providence is not known they do not constitute evidence and I am not suggesting they are anything but part of an interesting puzzle. If no one objects I do have several I want to present. It is difficult to find decent footage with out crazy people in the background talking about it. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-M5hDC5x_Ys?feature=share

I'm not sure what is going on but UFO of UAP sightings have jumped and cell phones are catching them! This video is a news broadcast of a recent sighting from an Airliner over NYC. The video is quite clear and appears to show an extraordinary object in flight near the airliner... a safety hazard if nothing else!

The premise is quite unique for Travelers, a relatively new take on an old trope.

Travelers dude! Travelers is the show to watch! Time travel is the bomb!

Again, you are trying to obfuscate the issue, you are being deceptive, the book you are discussing is not just any book, you are trying to say you are talking about books in general while you continue to quote a specific book of mythology. I do not require mythology, from a book or otherwise to learn.

I don't need a book to bolster my ideology much less a book of nonsense. If your ideology is based on faith then you have no vision. Be that as it may you cannot know my mind, so you cannot know that I have faith in anything much less a book. You lost a suckers bet.

My point is that you used "The Bible" in your quote but insinuated that you were just talking about books in general instead of the specific book of bs called "The Bible" I do not believe "The Bible" so you lose the bet. It was a fools bet but instead of admitting you can't know my thoughts you used your usual tactic of doubling down to bring kaos into the conversation.