too-open-minded Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 How would we go about communicating with a species alien to our home planet? one more advanced than us. When we communicate with other species, dogs can understand verbal commands even primates can understand sign language. However could this be far more complicated with an alien species? In my book, one of my main characters invents a language of pictures. He finds constants in nature on earth, then uses that to communicate with a much more advanced species. What do y'all think? Could my idea actually work or is there a more efficient, maybe even less complicated way we could communicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physica Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If you look at your examples of communication you should be able to see that it’s the more advanced species that usually formulates the language. Dogs haven’t given us a series of barks, they respond to human commands that we have conditioned them to react to. The same is with the primates; humans taught them the sign language. This is also the same between humans. Usually the person who is more advanced than the other person in a particular subject or field will define the terms of the communication, they don’t usually ask the person who knows less than them in the subject to define terms. They may ask at what level does the less advanced person understand but they will generally dictate the discussion of that subject. This points out how important it is to assess how advanced the alien race is in this story. If they are more advanced then they will most likely to communicate with us and dictate the language used. If they are more primitive than us then it will be along the same lines as what we do with primates or dogs. If they are of similar advancement of us then you can look to how countries treat each other. General peace with outbreaks of war, spying and misunderstandings, combined with general politics. Now considering that we have never met an alien race outside this world I’m simply resorting to interspecies communication on this planet simply to add structure. Because it’s an alien species you can come up with whatever you want but try and link with some logic. Laws of probability apply everywhere as far as we know. It would be extremely unlikely for an alien race that doesn’t respond to physical attacks on their own kind to survive on a planet long enough to develop space travel. Of course this is only my speculation but I would argue that concepts like natural selection would also play a role on other planets so there will be some similarities. Saying something like the aliens are nothing like anything on our planet at all because they’re just alien would grate on a reader like me but thankfully be all have different tastes. Best of luck with the book you really need to be dedicated to sit down and write a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I differ from physica. I think you need to consider the word alien deeply and fully. Our expectations are conditioned, to a great extent, by the ecology and diversity of terrestrial life. We anticipate that alien life will share similarities with ours. We think in terms of plants and animals (even though the majority of species fit neither category.) We assume evolution driven largely by natural selection. We envisage a genetic code and a mechanism that maintains its consistency, yet is prone to some errors in duplication. We imagine motivations will fit into those we are familiar with. But this is an alien life form we are talking about. In truth we have little to no idea what it would be like, how it would behave and even whether or not it would wish to communicate, or have the capacity to do so. Unless you subscribe to Star Trek, or the views of Simon Conway Morris, we are not going to be meeting bipedal, two sex, binocular, entities with a strong sense of self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 “Shaka, when the walls fell”. I'd guess that when it actually comes time to worry about such things our machines will speak for us. Establishing communication will require some effort in virtually every case and extreme effort in a few. The differences in language will be more complex than merely vocabulary. Ironically, if there's an intelligent species anywhere in the universe they'll have an easier time establishing communication with our animals than with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It is ironic to be contemplating communication with an alien species when I still don't understand my wife. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I think that math would be the basis of any realistic communication with aliens, any technological advanced species would have to understand math and further communication could be built on that foundation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It is ironic to be contemplating communication with an alien species when I still don't understand my wife. They are from Venus, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I was thinking astronomy pictograms or videos might work. ie. An object orbiting vs crashing, representing yes or no, good or bad. Different star types to represent increase/decrease. Angular momentum conservation should also lead to cross-cultural similarities that we could work with. Main thing would be to figure out how they sense their environment. Once that is known, we could work on converting the representation into a form they would be able to recognize. Edited March 17, 2014 by Endy0816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 There is an ongoing assumption here that they are 1. Individuals 2. Intelligent 3. Conscious 4. Capable of communication as we understand it. I see no reason that all, or indeed any of these need apply. I really don't think you are thinking alien hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I disagree, if aliens have technology they have to have some basic concepts in common with us... If they don't have technology we will never interact to begin with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arc Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 This thread brings to mind that cartoon of the little aliens that had heads shaped like an out stretched hand waiting to be shook. The caption said something like; "Then Fred grabbed their leader by the head and shook him vigorously - unwittingly dooming all of mankind to complete and utter annihilation." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I disagree, if aliens have technology they have to have some basic concepts in common with us... If they don't have technology we will never interact to begin with... Which concepts do you have in common with an ant? Provide justification for your implicit assertion that aliens must be conscious. Demonstrate that communication is a necessary adjunct to technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Which concepts do you have in common with an ant? Provide justification for your implicit assertion that aliens must be conscious. Demonstrate that communication is a necessary adjunct to technology. Demonstrate an ant is intelligent... We are not talking about bacteria, at least I was under the impression we are talking about intelligent aliens... Without communication you cannot pass down information that technology is based on and if you do not have technology we will be unlikely to meet. Someone in SETI said something to the effect that an intelligence without technology is not what we are looking for and since we are using communications technology to look for them by definition they would have to have similar technology, if not they are not going to be broadcasting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arc Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 That's the cartoon! nice, thanks imatfaal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rktpro Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Which concepts do you have in common with an ant?. Love for sugar. Hard to tell alien ants that we have synthetic sugar like saccharin on our planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 In order to communicate you must have some commonality or at least a method to reduce differences, but as Ophiolite suggests there is likely to be nothing at all in common between us and them. However if we make a few assumptions i.e. they need technology to travel through space and have a desire to communicate with us; then the one certain commonality would presumably be mathematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too-open-minded Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 In my Novel, the species is a cyborg that creates the human race as a science experiment. They communicate telepathically via computers implanted in their brains while still in a synthetic womb. They have sustained life for so long breeding through test tubes that they evolved out of the environmental pressures of reproductive organs. An A-sexual species that communicates as one, with all thoughts/memories processed through and stored on a computer. Individuals die and in a way their consciousness does not, they actually embrace euthanasia as a means of population control. Only killed by foreign instances, mastered their own genetics. That's just a little summary, as to give you an idea. Now they want the humans to communicate with them, and on their own terms. Remember it's an experiment, I don't want to spoil the book! I'm about halfway done with it. That's why I have my main character devise a universal language. The math is concrete, I should have thought of that! I suppose if a species were to meet, it would be the more technologically intelligence inclined species to do the calling of said language. Hadn't really thought of it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A great book on the difficulty of communicating with an alien species is Embassytown by China Mieville. The alien species has a language that works through the simultaneous superposition of two words - this creates enormous problems. To be honest I would highly recommend any of China Mieville's work - really good modern writing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassytown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Absolutely. Especially since Iain Banks is no more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Absolutely. Especially since Iain Banks is no more... The first Iain M Banks (ie the sci fi ones) I ever read left a mark in my imagination that I doubt will ever go - it was a sort of "wow - I didn't realise scifi could do this" (hint - all about a chair) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I probably should have added the M (though his prose in his non sci-fi novels is still very good). Use of weapons I presume. One of the few authors that IMO are able to evoke some degree of alienness even if much is still (intended or not) fundamentally human. Which, in turn is a limitation of our own imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Another good book on the problems of communicating with aliens would be Dragon's Egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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