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mad_scientist

is it true that science is consistent with all buddhist teachings?

31 posts in this topic

No. What about re-incarnation?

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Buddhism teaches rebirth not reincarnation; but i'm splitting hairs.

 

Far from all Buddhist doctrine is consistent with scientific knowledge. For instance some teachings state the Buddha has a golden bell end (glans penis) -whether from birth or upon enlightenment i forget. There is also a sutta in which the Buddha performs some supernatural feats in order to impress a noble enough so they will actually listen to him. Plus loads more.

 

So science and buddhism are certainly not consistent regarding ALL teachings. But even in the latter example i gave it is stressed that the demonstration of supernatural powers is entirely irrelevant to what the Buddha is trying to teach: thus some consider Buddhism agnostic towards such things - sure it says they exist but they have no impact on the teachings so who cares either way.

 

What you may be thinking of is the Kalama sutta:

 

"It is proper for you, Kalamas, to doubt, to be uncertain;uncertainty has arisen in you about what is doubtful. Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them.

 

 

Not bad for 500BC, but not quite the scientific method.

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No, definitely not. But one can distillate a kind of 'core-Buddhism' which fits pretty well to a scientific outlook.

 

E.g. the teaching of 'no-soul'. It doesn't literary say that a soul does not exist, but it says a soul does not exist independently: it is build up from the 5 Skandhas, and when we die the soul dissolves.

 

One way of understanding Buddhism is that it is a kind of humanism. And just as humanism usually does not contradict science, so neither does this 'core-Buddhism'.

 

However: one must be clear that it is the 'believer' (or 'practitioner') who brews this 'core-Buddhism'. Many traditional Buddhists do not accept such a stripped-of Buddhism.

 

But there is a rather strong movement in Europe and America known as 'Secular Buddhism'. See also here.

 

I am practising Zen meditation. I see this as a helpful method not just to know that the Ego has no independent existence (based on scientific and philosophical arguments (many of the modern philosophical arguments can already be found in Buddhist texts)), but also to feel that way.

 

In other words: Buddhist practice (not all its teachings!) might fit to a modern scientific world view. It gives hints how to get on par with a universe that is deaf to your needs, which might have created you, but will also destroy you in the end. It might be a way to have peace with the radical contingency of life.

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Dalai Lama XIV

If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.

He doesn't speak for all Buddhists, but he is an important spokesperson.

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Science isn't consistent with or in anything but the process of verifying and collecting information. It is motiveless. Science isn't a philosophy it world view. It renders judgement or opinion no strongly that the thermostat in my living room.

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Turn it around.

 

Religions or ideologies can be consistent with science if they make no claims that contradict our current understanding of science.

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Posted (edited)

AFAIK no religion is completely consistent with science; although, I am ignorant of most religions. Wikipedia lists 19 major religions, but most, maybe all, have variations (e.g., Christianity - Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc.); there are religions of indigenous peoples (e.g., various American Indians) and religions from antiquity (e.g., Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Celtic, etc.) that aren't mentioned among the major religions. I've seen estimates of over 4000 religions; it is unlikely anyone knows them all. Nonetheless, I believe none are 100% scientific and no two religions are alike; there seem to be an infinite number of possible religious beliefs. Buddhism is not completely scientific.

Edited by EdEarl
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Buddha circa 500BC stated along the lines off "you must find our own light".

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I think all religions were compatible with science; when Christianity, for instance, was new and accepted widely, it adopted many of the beliefs in a given society.

 

No religion started with the dogma it later promotes, in fact it's perfectly possible science itself could become a religion, given enough time.

 

I think the reason Buddhism appears to be the closest religion, philosophically, to science is largely due to the fact, that of all the major religions, it's the youngest.

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Buddha circa 500BC stated along the lines off "you must find our own light".

 

 

Huh?

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I think all religions were compatible with science; when Christianity, for instance, was new and accepted widely, it adopted many of the beliefs in a given society.

 

No religion started with the dogma it later promotes, in fact it's perfectly possible science itself could become a religion, given enough time.

 

I think the reason Buddhism appears to be the closest religion, philosophically, to science is largely due to the fact, that of all the major religions, it's the youngest.

 

It predates Christianity and Islam.

 

And shouldn't the Mormons be closer to science than other Christians off-shoots?

 

 

Huh?

 

I thinks it's a reference to a quote from the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, about Buddha's last days and who should lead the brotherhood of monks after his death.

 

"Therefore, O Ananda, be ye lamps unto yourselves. Rely on yourselves, and do not rely on external help. Hold fast to the truth as a lamp. Seek salvation alone in the truth. Look not for assistance to any one besides yourselves."
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I thinks it's a reference to a quote from the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, about Buddha's last days and who should lead the brotherhood of monks after his death.

 

But I wonder what the relevance to the subject of the thread is.

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I guess it's taken as an indication that Buddhism is compatible with science?

 

It does suggest (along with other passages) less reliance on authority than other religions, making it easier to adjust to secular societies.

 

As an aside i've noticed some people complain that secular Buddhism is a distortion of the original teachings. But looking at the history of Buddhism, it has always been 'distorted' by the societies it meets. And surely that's a good thing: any religion that cannot adapt with humanity is a dead religion.

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It predates Christianity and Islam.

 

That'll learn me for believing my teacher without checking myself :doh: .

 

But it does show how well the philosophy was explained, given how well time tends to mask meaning; an excuse, for not checking my facts, rather than a reason.

And shouldn't the Mormons be closer to science than other Christians off-shoots?

 

They all just re-interpret lost meaning (according to their needs), so I don't see why they would be.

 

Understanding is the key, not a different style of dogma.

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When you say all Buddhist teachings, you should mean The Great Dharma Treasury or the 84,000 teachings of Buddha or the Sutra's. There are two types of Sutra's: 1. Wisdom 2. Compassion. The Wisdom Surtra's contain Sciences. There are two Sutra's written over 2000 yrs ago that deal with Earth/Cosmos Science, Quantum Physics, Chemistry. They have been Validated by Science. The one give the approx. time of the beginning of this current Climate change event. Even gives the approx. time of the first single cell organism on this planet. The other Sutra gives lifespans of celestial objects. Combine both together, you get a Chemistry Lattice that maps out everything in this universe in chemical form.

 

One know this because One unlocked those Sutra's and gave them to H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet and other Scientific communities.

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There are two Sutra's written over 2000 yrs ago that deal with Earth/Cosmos Science, Quantum Physics, Chemistry. They have been Validated by Science.

 

 

Citation needed.

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1. In the Indian language: "Arya Aparamita Ayurgyena Nama Mahayana Sutra."

In the English language: "Great Vehicle Sutra of Unfathomable Exalted Life and Transcendental Wisdom."

 

2. short name the other is the "Infinite Life" Sutra

 

 

Both Sutra's are number based and one also contains Binary. Both Sutra's connect to the Kalachakra.

 

Some of the translations are on this page: https://www.facebook.com/ManjushriTathagata/

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Posted (edited)

I suppose I need to be clearer:

 

They have been Validated by Science.

Citation needed.

Edited by Strange
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1. In the Indian language: "Arya Aparamita Ayurgyena Nama Mahayana Sutra."

In the English language: "Great Vehicle Sutra of Unfathomable Exalted Life and Transcendental Wisdom."

 

2. short name the other is the "Infinite Life" Sutra

 

 

Both Sutra's are number based and one also contains Binary. Both Sutra's connect to the Kalachakra.

 

Some of the translations are on this page: https://www.facebook.com/ManjushriTathagata/

 

 

 

Here is a translation of your citation, in pdf.

 

http://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/teachers/zopa/advice/amitayus_long_life_sutra_c5.pdf?x33127

 

 

I read enough to know that the answer to the OP is a resounding NO.

 

 

 

 

Manjushri, the life will be increased of any senti ent being who hears

the 108 names of the Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom

Extremely Discerning Aspect Victorious Glorifi cati on. Those

senti ent beings whose life is nearly complete, by keeping this holy

name their life will be increased. Manjushri, because it is like that,

the good qualiti es of any son or daughter of the race who, desiring a

long life, either hears the name of the Tathagata Unfathomable Life

and Transcendental Wisdom 108 ti mes, who writes it, causes others

to write it, or recites it, will be enhanced.

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The one give the approx. time of the beginning of this current Climate change event.

 

To assist our understanding maybe you could narrow it down to this one specific claim.

 

Could you please quote and link to the section that gives the approximate date of this event and could you provide the resources needed for us to convert the dates from whatever calendar was used 2000 thousands years ago in India to the Gregorian calendar?

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Again that time ten million buddhas equaling the grains of sand in ten great oceans taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

Again that time 25 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

Again that time 65 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

Again that time 77 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

Again that time, 84 ten-million (840,000,000) buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

Again that time 99 ten-million (990,000,000) buddhas taught this sutra container3 Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one melody.

 

Again that time 55 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one voice.
Again that time 45 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one voice.
Again that time 36 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one voice.

 

100,000,000 a Extinction approx. Melody
250,000,000 a C Permian extinction approx. Melody
360,000,000 b Extinction approx Voice
450,000,000 b Extinction approx Voice
550,000,000 b Voice
650,000,000 a Melody
770,000,000 a Melody
840,000,000 a Melody
990,000,000 a Melody

 

4.96 Billion yrs ago- age of solar System to the moment
"a"=3.6 Billion yrs ago- approx time frame of "life" "cellular" on Earth (start)
"b"=1.36 Billion yrs ago- approx climate change beginning
1.16 Billion yrs Extinction

C "Writing or letting others write this sutra container of Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom is like letting the person write the 84,000 teachings of Buddha and consecrating them." + " A thousand buddhas will stretch out their arms" = 84 Million, it deals with the ice ages, geological time and crust removal. Natural time frame of Earths destruction.

 

These are in Billions of years, even changing from the Gregorian to the Tibetan (Current year 2144) would have no impact.

The Melody numbers should be in Binary.

Also says the Milky Way Galaxy has four arms and you can get the rough dimensions, but the size is ever-changing.

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As you can't even do arithmetic correctly, I see no reason to take this seriously.


They have been Validated by Science.

 

 

Please show where science has studied and confirmed your claims.

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Posted (edited)

As you can't even do arithmetic correctly, I see no reason to take this seriously.

 

What is the arithmetic not correct to you, So One can remove that ignorance, maybe it's the word problem of "C" which is missing a couple of keys that unlock sutra's so that The Chinese Government would not get what is hidden.

or maybe it the word problems like "Again that time 36 ten-million buddhas taught this sutra container Unfathomable Life and Transcendental Wisdom with one intention and in one voice." Break this down.

It's Not 36 + 10,000,000. That phrase has a "Check" in it. "one intention and in one voice" or 1+1=2 or 2 places after 10,000,000, so if it was 10,000,036 it would not hold to the "Check". Now you could say "That check isn't right to fulfill 360,000,000". The "key" is "one intention" or 10,000,000, so all the numbers are multiplied by 10,000,000. 36 x 10,000,000 = 360,000,000 or 3(1 place)6(1 place)0,000,000.

 

To combine the sets, Melody goes with Melody, and Voice goes with Voice. For "C" you need to know the Fundamental Laws that govern Emptiness. One of those laws, a person named Einstein, was looking for the Law of Interdependence (Unified Field Theory). It's the Law that connects all existence. There is another Law, known as Karma (Cause and Effect), it's a common law in Physics. Those that don't believe in Karma, is like saying "Since you do not believe in Karma (Cause and Effect) that when you push a ball it will Not move."

 

The confirmation of the claims, watch the Buddhist Nations, Science and Technology will advance beyond Non-Buddhist Nations.

Edited by Jampelyang
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What is the arithmetic not correct to you

 

 

You say:

 

"Again that time ten million buddhas ..." = 100 million

"Again that time 25 ten-million buddhas" = 250 million

 

If ten-buddhas = 100, then 25 x ten-buddhas = 2,500.

 

I have no idea why ten million buddhas equals 100 millions years. It implies a buddha only lasts 10 years.

 

 

 

4.96 Billion yrs ago- age of solar System to the moment

 

Citation needed.

 

One that shows this is exactly ("to the moment") correct. Not one that says "about 5 billion years".

 

And where does 4.96 appear in you list of nice round numbers?

 

 

 

250,000,000 a C Permian extinction approx. Melody

 

So we go from "to the moment" to "approximately".

 

So it isn't 250,000,000, it is about 252 million years ago.

 

Typical of numerologists to round things up to match their voodoo. Or maybe you are posting this 2 million years too late.

 

 

The Melody numbers should be in Binary.

 

Why should they be in binary?

 

And why not write them in binary?

 

And what difference would the way you write them make?

 

 

There is another Law, known as Karma (Cause and Effect), it's a common law in Physics. Those that don't believe in Karma, is like saying "Since you do not believe in Karma (Cause and Effect) that when you push a ball it will Not move."

 

This is a logical fallacy. Confirming the antecedent, I think.

 

 

The confirmation of the claims, watch the Buddhist Nations, Science and Technology will advance beyond Non-Buddhist Nations.

 

When?

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