nomanoba Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Hello, I haven't had much of an education and am not a scientist, my driving license is my only paper qualification, so I don't expect an easy ride on here. What I would like is good manners which I haven't found on the two previous forums I've posted on being called twat, liar and moron lol. I have invented a motor that runs on electricity but does not use electromagnets. I don't have measuring instruments apart from an AVO, so my comparisons and claims can be easily challenged. I started posting on forums that I could use others objections and arguments to refine my invention. In one week of battling non believers, I simplified the motor from 47 moving parts to just 5. So the build has begun and the motor will go on youtube in about a months time, but without a patent it will be shown as just a box 10 inches x 2 inches with a drive shaft coming from within. The build cost is but a fraction of a conventional electric motor, as precision is not much of an issue (I don't have a lathe or milling machine etc) plus it needs less amperes than it's forerunner. I use straight line propulsion and a "Bonkers" rotary converter. All parts are generally obtainable except the heart which I have to make. This is the only precision part but can be fashioned with hand tools and a good eye. I just wanted to share the ride with open and like minded souls, nothing more than that. Thank you for reading. Edited February 21, 2017 by nomanoba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There doesn't seem to be anything to discuss: you have invented a new type of motor but won't say anything about how it works (quite sensibly, if you want to patent it). So, what can I say? Nothing. Expect, maybe, good luck. Have you done a patent search for similar ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I've built a motor with a permanent magnet and without electromagnets, so I don't see how this is necessarily a big deal. Without details there's nothing to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveworlds Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Or a motor with an magnets at all (steam engine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomanoba Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 There doesn't seem to be anything to discuss: you have invented a new type of motor but won't say anything about how it works (quite sensibly, if you want to patent it). So, what can I say? Nothing. Expect, maybe, good luck. Have you done a patent search for similar ideas? Thank you for being polite and not telling me I'm nuts, well I am in a good way. I have done a patent search, and nothing comes close, plus the principle is very simple (think paper clip simplicity) so hopefully cheaper than my 2 previous patents as the wording is very short and untangled. As I said, I want to share the journey, and when protected, I'd like to show the plans on here and tell the story of how this all came about. I want to make people smile when they see how stupidly simple it is...it's also aesthetically very beautiful. Thank you I've built a motor with a permanent magnet and without electromagnets, so I don't see how this is necessarily a big deal. Without details there's nothing to discuss. Wow now that's impressive! Can you reveal how it works, or is that a dumb question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Don't most motors revolve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Don't most motors revolve? Apart from linear ones! (Which are quite common: loudspeakers, for example.) Head actuators in disk drives are somewhere in between, I suppose. They use the same voice coil technique, but to rotate the arm (rather than revolve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zztop Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Wow now that's impressive! Can you reveal how it works, or is that a dumb question? Here is a good synopsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Antares Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have to side with Strange here, there is nothing to discuss. You made a claim about inventing a new motor but cannot provide evidence because it isn't patented yet. There is nothing we can say here. Do you have any suggestions how we should approach you and what we should be discussing? Seeing how you reacted to this post: I've built a motor with a permanent magnet and without electromagnets, so I don't see how this is necessarily a big deal. I think we can assume that it doesn't run on permanent magnets either. It's not hard to see how people wouldn't believe you. You must realize that it's only sensible not to believe what you have no evidence for. Or a motor with an magnets at all (steam engine) But he said it runs on electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thank you for being polite and not telling me I'm nuts, well I am in a good way. I have done a patent search, and nothing comes close, plus the principle is very simple (think paper clip simplicity) so hopefully cheaper than my 2 previous patents as the wording is very short and untangled. As I said, I want to share the journey, and when protected, I'd like to show the plans on here and tell the story of how this all came about. I want to make people smile when they see how stupidly simple it is...it's also aesthetically very beautiful. Thank you Wow now that's impressive! Can you reveal how it works, or is that a dumb question? Homopolar motor. Second video. http://blogs.scienceforums.net/swansont/archives/484 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) But he said it runs on electricity. It could use electricity to boil the water and drive a steam engine. Or just heat a liquid (or a bimetal strip) and use that the generate motion. Or ... Edited February 21, 2017 by Strange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think we can assume that it doesn't run on permanent magnets either. It's not hard to see how people wouldn't believe you. You must realize that it's only sensible not to believe what you have no evidence for. I think we can't assume that there are no magnets if it's an electric motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Antares Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think we can't assume that there are no magnets if it's an electric motor. Yes, that's my point. First, he said that he doesn't use electromagnets. Then you pointed out that it could be done with a permanent magnet. Then he said that's impressive and asked you how it's done, which indicates that he doesn't know and therefore, couldn't be using it for his motor. That's what confuses me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It could use electricity to boil the water and drive a steam engine. Or just heat a liquid (or a bimetal strip) and use that the generate motion. Or ... Then it would be an engine, and not a motor. (At least as I learned the definitions; engines <=> thermodynamics) Yes, that's my point. First, he said that he doesn't use electromagnets. Then you pointed out that it could be done with a permanent magnet. Then he said that's impressive and asked you how it's done, which indicates that he doesn't know and therefore, couldn't be using it for his motor. That's what confuses me the most. There's more than one way to build a motor. If this is someone not aware of the breadth and depth of the art, he may have been unduly impressed by some very old technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There's more than one way to build a motor. If this is someone not aware of the breadth and depth of the art, he may have been unduly impressed by some very old technology. And may have re-invented the wheel. (Or the thing that turns the wheel!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thank you for being polite and not telling me I'm nuts, well I am in a good way. I have done a patent search, and nothing comes close, plus the principle is very simple (think paper clip simplicity) so hopefully cheaper than my 2 previous patents as the wording is very short and untangled. As I said, I want to share the journey, and when protected, I'd like to show the plans on here and tell the story of how this all came about. I want to make people smile when they see how stupidly simple it is...it's also aesthetically very beautiful. Thank you Wow now that's impressive! Can you reveal how it works, or is that a dumb question? Well our Welshman is not claiming something for nothing, and as we understand the need to protect trade secrets I would suggest that useful discussion could focus on performance characteristics. Does it run on DC or AC, mains or battery? How much current and power does it consume? What speed /torque/power output does it develop? What is its power to weight ratio? Discussion of these could help understand the viability of the project, which I too wish well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomanoba Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 And may have re-invented the wheel. (Or the thing that turns the wheel!) Brilliant! Almost deserving of a prize just for having an open mind and believing anything is possible. Well our Welshman is not claiming something for nothing, and as we understand the need to protect trade secrets I would suggest that useful discussion could focus on performance characteristics. Does it run on DC or AC, mains or battery? How much current and power does it consume? What speed /torque/power output does it develop? What is its power to weight ratio? Discussion of these could help understand the viability of the project, which I too wish well. I will do my best to post figures as and when I can calculate them. I've been told I need a dynamometer which I will purchase. Up til now I've been using a spring balance, which although crude at least gave me enough information and motivation to build the rotary part. Then it would be an engine, and not a motor. (At least as I learned the definitions; engines <=> thermodynamics) There's more than one way to build a motor. If this is someone not aware of the breadth and depth of the art, he may have been unduly impressed by some very old technology. You are spot on with that comment, in that I went back to a time before the wheel was invented and asked myself how I could complicate such a basic concept. However, it did take me 40 years to strip it back to something that was usable. Brilliant! Almost deserving of a prize just for having an open mind and believing anything is possible. I will do my best to post figures as and when I can calculate them. I've been told I need a dynamometer which I will purchase. Up til now I've been using a spring balance, which although crude at least gave me enough information and motivation to build the rotary part. You are spot on with that comment, in that I went back to a time before the wheel was invented and asked myself how I could complicate such a basic concept. However, it did take me 40 years to strip it back to something that was usable. Edit: According to the other forum I posted on, I'm now gay as well as being an idiot...well that's my current relationship down the toilet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moreno Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 There is already at least one type of electric motor that uses no magnets or electromagnets at all. This is the ultrasonic motor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor However it has some disadvantages, what would be an issue with any new type of a motor. For example, high initial price and vulnerability to dirt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) There is already at least one type of electric motor that uses no magnets or electromagnets at all. This is the ultrasonic motor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor However it has some disadvantages, what would be an issue with any new type of a motor. For example, high initial price and vulnerability to dirt. +1 for pointing this out. I will do my best to post figures as and when I can calculate them. I've been told I need a dynamometer which I will purchase. Up til now I've been using a spring balance, which although crude at least gave me enough information and motivation to build the rotary part. You may need a dynamometer one day but I would have thought a simple homebru friction brake and sensitive spring balance would suffice until then. Alternatively you could go back to Joule and drive some paddles in a viscous liquid and measure the temperature rise. Edited February 21, 2017 by studiot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomanoba Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 There is already at least one type of electric motor that uses no magnets or electromagnets at all. This is the ultrasonic motor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor However it has some disadvantages, what would be an issue with any new type of a motor. For example, high initial price and vulnerability to dirt. Lol nothing as complicated with plain old "Nomanoba" It has one strange shaped winding, but the winding isn't round. However, this abnormality is beautifully balanced by the "Bonkers" mechanics. ps. I wrote Nomanoba her own song...maybe I'll record it and post here. It's very passionate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Electric motors are electromagnetic or electrostatic; there are no other possibilities. IMO a steam engine run by heating water with electricity is still a heat engine, not an electric motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Electric motors are electromagnetic or electrostatic; there are no other possibilities. IMO a steam engine run by heating water with electricity is still a heat engine, not an electric motor. Or electro-osmotic or some other electrochemical process? Edited February 21, 2017 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I suppose a combination of electromagnetics and electrostatics could be used to make a motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Let's see: - Piezo electric: huge force, but very small displacement. Rotary motors are generally quite complex to control, so I guess this is not what he's talking about. Includes ultrasonic motors - Shape memory alloys: large power density, but difficult to control and hugely inefficient - Electrostatic: mostly popular in microscopic machines due to the extremely small force at larger scale - Electrostrictive: not particularly interesting to make into a rotary motor - Electro-active polymer: two types. The ionic polymers are quite slow and not very strong; the electrostatic EAP's are quite promising as artificial muscle (it is an elastomer sheet compressed between two conductive foils). I also don't want to keep this swimming blimp from you, powered entirely from non-magnetic electric actuators. Perhaps he found another way. I'm certainly interested to hear about it. About price or efficiency: I'm sceptical that it can improve on an induction machine or a DC motor, which are incredibly simple, can be very cheap and can reach an efficiency above 98% (although it can't do both at the same time ). The number of amps required depends on the design. Usually the voltage is fixed, so to get a higher power, you need more amps, regardless of how you do it. Can you confirm that the current at no point passes through a coil? EDIT: upon rereading: by "5 moving parts", do you mean that there are five parts moving independently. In that case, your claims of simplicity and cost efficiency aren't very likely, since a traditional motor only has one moving part. Edited February 21, 2017 by Bender 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveworlds Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 IMO a steam engine run by heating water with electricity is still a heat engine, not an electric motor. An engine takes a source of mechanical energy and converts it into desirable motion. A motor converts other sources of energy into mechanical energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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