6 hours ago, dimreepr said:

There is only one logical reason for war and it has nothing to do with defense.

Actually, I can think of 4 off the top of my head; $$$, distraction, appeasement, and resources.

17 hours ago, Trurl said:

can’t understand the logic of this war. There must be something strategic or important. I mean why would Trump risk the economy unless he knew the economy would skyrocket after it ended?

I can't believe you put 'logic' and 'Trump' in the same thought.
Are you trying to process the 'reasoning' of a senile, stupid, and arguably crazy person ?

1 hour ago, MigL said:

I can't believe you put 'logic' and 'Trump' in the same thought.
Are you trying to process the 'reasoning' of a senile, stupid, and arguably crazy person ?

This had to be said. Thanks. Our ship of state is rudderless. I'm getting tired of people trying to rationalize the POTUS actions, as if he's actually cleverly playing four dimensional chess and merely feigning dementia. Turnip is tossing wrenches into the global machinery and giggling insanely.

What's the old saying in politics...."Elect a clown, expect a circus."

On 4/13/2026 at 11:30 AM, MigL said:

Many countries like to 'war-game' strategies for actual war planning.
I fear this trivializes the seriousness of actual war.

The ones war-gaming aren’t usually the ones deciding whether or not to go to war; war games let you have an understanding of what your abilities are under certain circumstances. I think the current situation is caused by the people in charge not having any appreciation of the ramifications, and having fired many with the expertise to understand the ramifications and those who would call out really bad decisions. What we’re left with is yes-men with vastly overinflated confidence in their own abilities.

The trivialization comes from having people who treat it like a video game

8 hours ago, swansont said:

The ones war-gaming aren’t usually the ones deciding whether or not to go to war; war games let you have an understanding of what your abilities are under certain circumstances. I think the current situation is caused by the people in charge not having any appreciation of the ramifications, and having fired many with the expertise to understand the ramifications and those who would call out really bad decisions. What we’re left with is yes-men with vastly overinflated confidence in their own abilities.

The trivialization comes from having people who treat it like a video game

Dunning-Kruger thinking is running riot through the trump administration all the way to the top.

Edited Saturday at 10:06 AM2 days by StringJunky

16 hours ago, npts2020 said:

Actually, I can think of 4 off the top of my head; $$$, distraction, appeasement, and resources.

Seems to me that they're subsets of fear, or it's the old bully delusion, power must equal win cuz it's obviously true.

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Dunning-Kruger thinking is running riot through the trump administration all the way to the top.

It runs riot throughout humanity, they weren't pointing out how stupid people think, they were pointing out that we don't know what we don't know, and we all suffer from that.

52 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Seems to me that they're subsets of fear, or it's the old bully delusion, power must equal win cuz it's obviously true.

Can you explain to me how greed is a "subset of fear"?

4 minutes ago, npts2020 said:

Can you explain to me how greed is a "subset of fear"?

Greed is a manifestation of the fear of not having enough, it's mostly a bully move.

3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Greed is a manifestation of the fear of not having enough, it's mostly a bully move.

So fear is the only motivator of humans?

31 minutes ago, npts2020 said:

So fear is the only motivator of humans?

Of course not, sex has a lot say...

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Of course not, sex has a lot say...

So which one wins out for someone who is afraid of sex ? 😁

10 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Dunning-Kruger thinking is running riot through the trump administration all the way to the top.

Also, alcoholism

The Atlantic

The FBI Director Is MIA

Kash Patel has alarmed colleagues with episodes of excessive drinking and unexplained absences.

12 hours ago, dimreepr said:

It runs riot throughout humanity,

But it’s not supposed to run through the best and brightest in their areas of expertise, but those aren’t staffing the posts of the US government these days, as StringJunky said.

12 hours ago, dimreepr said:

they weren't pointing out how stupid people think, they were pointing out that we don't know what we don't know, and we all suffer from that.

Where do you get this impression from? D-K goes a step past that; it implies people confidently think they know what they don’t know (and also that those with expertise might underestimate it).

9 hours ago, swansont said:

But it’s not supposed to run through the best and brightest in their areas of expertise, but those aren’t staffing the posts of the US government these days, as StringJunky said.

Where do you get this impression from? D-K goes a step past that; it implies people confidently think they know what they don’t know (and also that those with expertise might underestimate it).

It was just an observation that the people in the Whitehouse aren't stupid, they're intelligent people that don't even have to consider their level of competence; such people will just ignore anyone saying that what they're doing is stupid bc they know their not stupid.

Even the smartest of human's can stray into that minefield.

However I'm not so sure that Trump fits that definition.

This of a war of perception. Iran is limited military, but if the people of the World view it the way the authors of the thread do it will lessen the effects of the campaign.

Trump is largely responsible because his own reputation is based on his antics. But it could very well be this war is justified. We’d never know. It is just like any political debate with 2 opposing sides that both claim to be correct. And innocent people kill each other.

7 minutes ago, Trurl said:

This of a war of perception. Iran is limited military, but if the people of the World view it the way the authors of the thread do it will lessen the effects of the campaign.

Trump is largely responsible because his own reputation is based on his antics. But it could very well be this war is justified. We’d never know. It is just like any political debate with 2 opposing sides that both claim to be correct. And innocent people kill each other.

That's nonsense. There is no justification for this attack. Iran posed no immediate threat of any magnitude to the USA. No credible level of threat has even been asserted, much less corroborated. Furthermore no clear war aims have been articulated.

Nor is this in any way a war of perception. It is a war with very practical consequences. These include civilian deaths in Iran including a school full of little girls, serious damage to Iranian infrastructure and civic buildings and to oil, gas and American military installations in the Gulf States. It is having a major effects on economies right across the world.

As for "perception", the perception is that Trump has screwed up. Badly. Thanks to this ill-conceived operation, Iran has learnt what a powerful negotiating card they have in closing the Strait of Hormuz, something they had never before attempted. And they still have the military means to do that, because all they need is a few drones, which they have been mass-producing for years and which can be launched from almost anywhere in the country, which is vast.

There is almost nobody outside the White House who thinks this is going well, or that any outcome will be better than could have been achieved by the negotiations that were broken off by the US when they decided to attack. And the cost of it all is huge.

Got this in my Bluesky feed today:

"The US joint Chiefs of staff Air Force Gen. Dan Caine stormed out of an emergency meeting with Trump. Insiders indicate that Trump wanted to invoke the nuclear codes as a deterrence against Iran but Caine refused and invoked the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Trump obviously wants to wave the nuclear stick at Iran. I suppose invoking the Uniform Code is as far as a top military person can go. The implication seems to be, is this the point where the president goes full dictator and finds out if he has the internal support to ignore the law?

Edited Sunday at 08:01 PM1 day by StringJunky

45 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Got this in my Bluesky feed today:

"The US joint Chiefs of staff Air Force Gen. Dan Caine stormed out of an emergency meeting with Trump. Insiders indicate that Trump wanted to invoke the nuclear codes as a deterrence against Iran but Caine refused and invoked the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Trump obviously wants to wave the nuclear stick at Iran. I suppose invoking the Uniform Code is as far as a top military person can go. The implication seems to be, is this the point where the president goes full dictator and finds out if he has the internal support to ignore the law?

I had an awful feeling it might come to this. Let's hope the military professionals hold the line against insanity. I have a fair degree of faith in them. Especially since it is increasingly evident that the president is off his rocker.

Edited Sunday at 09:33 PM1 day by exchemist

7 minutes ago, exchemist said:

I had an awful feeling it might come to this. Let's hope the military professionals hold the line against insanity. I have a fair degree of faith in them. Especially since it is increasing evident that the president is off his rocker.

I hope so too. It seems to me it is coming to a point where the Chiefs of Staff have to say to all the ranks "You must disobey illegal orders from the President" - and take what comes. The worst thing they can do, I think, is just resign, to be replaced by sycophants.

2 hours ago, exchemist said:

I had an awful feeling it might come to this. Let's hope the military professionals hold the line against insanity. I have a fair degree of faith in them. Especially since it is increasingly evident that the president is off his rocker.

There are number of leaked reports today that president Trump was effectively excluded from the situation room during a fraught military operation to rescue a downed airman inside Iran just over a week ago

According to The Daily Beast, when Trump learned two fighter jets went down in Iran, he lost control of his emotions and went on a tirade, lasting hours.

When speaking to The Wall Street Journal, senior administration officials said Trump went into a frenzied state and his ranting became so unbearable that he was barred from the room.

https://www.aol.com/articles/trump-kicked-iran-briefing-major-160133740.html

Top military advisers deliberately limited Trump's access to the live operation, choosing not to include him in minute‑by‑minute tactical monitoring. Instead, aides reportedly briefed the president only at what they considered 'meaningful moments', fearing that his 'erratic behaviour', which meant emotional reactions or impulsive directives, could disrupt a highly sensitive mission.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/inside-situation-room-trump-exclusion-iran-rescue-1792499

That decision meant the Situation Room became a command post run primarily by national security and military leadership rather than the president himself. Officials reportedly coordinating or tracking the mission included US Vice President JD Vance, White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Pentagon leaders, intelligence officials and National Security Council staff. While some monitored remotely, the Situation Room remained the operational hub where developments were assessed in real time.

Both the WSJ and TDB suggest Trump was concerned that the two missing airmen could define his presidency.

“If you look at what happened with Jimmy Carter…with the helicopters and the hostages, it cost them the election,” Trump said in March. “What a mess.”

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

But it could very well be this war is justified.

Sure, that argument can be made, but this was not a defensive war.
Iran puts political protesters to death by hanging ( from cranes, in public ).
Dozens every year since 1979, and a few thousand during times of civil unrest like late last year.
There is no doubt that their 'religious' Government is evil and needs to be changed, but there are many countries that are as bad., such as N Korea, China, etc.
Even Russia is essentially 'murdering' thousands of their young people, every couple of months for 4 years, by sending them into a meat-grinder like the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
But, if you essentially kill thousands of their people to stop their murdering, or force regime change, how are you any better ?

5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Trump obviously wants to wave the nuclear stick at Iran.

No doubt a trick he picked up from his good buddy, V Putin, who regularly makes the nuclear threat to Ukraine and Europe.

15 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I hope so too. It seems to me it is coming to a point where the Chiefs of Staff have to say to all the ranks "You must disobey illegal orders from the President" - and take what comes. The worst thing they can do, I think, is just resign, to be replaced by sycophants.

This has all the hallmarks of "the charge of the light brigade", not only a pointless war, but also from a culture (the British Army), that auctioned off all the top job's to the highest bidder rather than the best candidates.

"The British soldier will do his duty, even to certain death, and is not paralyzed by the feeling that he is the victim of some hideous blunder,"

I know Iran is a problem child/country, but what would be so wrong if we let them spend their life savings developing a bomb they can't use, other than the leverage to sit at the top table.

Who knew a thousand, table top bombs, would be more effective than a million tonnes of force...

46 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I know Iran is a problem child/country, but what would be so wrong if we let them spend their life savings developing a bomb they can't use, other than the leverage to sit at the top table.

Really, the best reason for Iran to give up nuke aspirations is Israel's belligerence and hyperreactive posture. The RW coalition throws fits of rage at the sight of its own shadow. Iran showing any sign of building a nuke wouid give them leverage to do God knows what.

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Really, the best reason for Iran to give up nuke aspirations is Israel's belligerence and hyperreactive posture. The RW coalition throws fits of rage at the sight of its own shadow. Iran showing any sign of building a nuke wouid give them leverage to do God knows what.

I think Iran needs a nuclear capability, or for one of its nuclear-armed allies to say "Nuke Iran or threaten it with them, we'll do the same to you". That would be simplest, I think. The Islamic countries need a mutual pact, like NATO's Article 5. I think all this geopolitical bullying and resource stealing by the west is down to the glaring asymmetry in WMD's. There's no mutually assured destruction capability in the Islamic Middle East. There needs to be some degree of a nuclear capability there to restore some level of mutual military respect.