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The Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

Summa Contra Gentiles, by St. Thomas Acquinas

 

The Everlasting Man, and Orthodoxy, both by G. K. Chesterton

 

Mere Christianity, and The Abolition of Man, both by C. S. Lewis.

 

Lost in the Cosmos, by Walter Percy

 

Christianity for Modern Pagans: Pascal's Pensees, by Peter Kreeft

(Kreeft has a lot of very good mp3's on his website)

Edited by chilehed

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Why I Became An Atheist - John W. Loftus

This book is written by an ex student of William Lane Craig (or as I like to call him, the world's greatest example of the Dunning/Kruger effect) turned atheist - he knows all the apologist arguments, and dismantles them in this book.

Jesus Interrupted - Bart D. Ehrman

A decent account of exactly why the Gospels aren't reliable. I'd also recommend 'God's Problem' by the same author - in which he looks into the Bible and how it deals with the problem of suffering.

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S. Radhkrishnan - The Philosophy of the Upanishads, (George Allen & Unwin, London, 1924)

 

This gives a clear and authoritative explanation of the philosophical view held by Erwin Schroedinger. Professor Radhakrishnan decribes 'nondualism', the 'perennial philosophy', or 'mysticism', as expounded in the late Hindu Vedas. This is the doctrine that must be refuted for the final defeat of religion, and it is difficult to overstress the importance of such a clear exposition.

 

George Spencer Brown - The Laws of Form, ( George Allen & Unwin, when it's not our of print, 1967)

 

A famously controversial book about the relation between mathematics, metaphysics and mysticism, here in the form of Taoism. Brown presents a simple calculus that models the cosmological/psychological scheme of mysticism that is set-theoretic and fundamental. This is possible because it solves Russell's Paradox. The book comes highly recommended by Russell even though he seems not to have understood it.

 

F. H. Bradley - Appearance and Reality, (OUP, 1893)

 

Bradley shows that all extreme metaphysical positions are logically absurd. The significance of this for religion is that such a proof would leave the view of Schroedinger, Radhakrishnan, Brown and Bradley as the only one we cannot refute in logic or experience.

 

Freke and Gandy - The Jesus Mysteries, (Harper Collins, 1999)

 

Whatever the merits of the author's argument that Jesus is a mythological figure or archetype, not a human being who lived and died, they expertly describe the way in which the esoteric interpretation of his teachings was suppressed and replaced by the literalistic reading that so many people now find implausible. A surprising bestseller.

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I think I've mentioning it in IRC before to someone, but if anyone is interested, "The New Testament World: Insights from Cultural Anthropology" and "Social Science Commentary on the Synoptic Gospels" both by Bruce Malina are incredible books. They're essentially about the cultural meaning of the words and concepts in the NT. For instance, when Jesus says it's wrong to divorce someone, what exactly did he mean by "divorce"--what happened to people when that happened? Because to look at that word "divorce" in the 21st century is to understand something extremely different than what was meant. (The basis of his point, which he hammers home for the first few weeks of the class I took with him, is that "words carry no meaning; culture carries the meaning.") Also, lots of interesting things about the way words and numbers were used--for instance, the tradition at the time of using numbers as sort of symbolic adjectives: "40" means "real damn long time," for instance, and that long tie is particularly connoted by burden or struggle. It doesn't mean "40." A reader at the time would've gotten that. So, they didn't read it as "Jesus spent 40 days in the desert;" a better translation that would hit closer to the original understanding is simply, "Jesus spent a long time in the desert and it wasn't terribly fun." Much of the book is about the "honor-shame" social system of the ancient eastern Med--how most social interactions are status transactions involving growth, shrinkage, investments of, or some kind of exchange of honor between persons of typically measurably unequal status: a patron and client. The god of the NT is frequently described in terms of the super-patron, and much of what is said about him is in the language of client requests. (You can tell they're asking him something when passive voice is being used, since that grammatical voice made it easier to avoid writing his name, which was of course a no-no. Thus, Malina say something like "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" means something to the effect of "come down here and tear things up hardcore to keep your promises as patron and improve the status of your clients," etc. It's an expression of messianic/apocalyptic longing, basically.)

 

I could go on rambling about these books for a while. The first is more general about these points, the second is essentially a verse-by-verse annotation along the lines of what I was describing. One of the better classes I've ever taken, and absolutely great books. Shame you can't hear the guy in person--one of the most classically cranky professorial voices I've ever heard. A joy.

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The New Foxes Book of Martyrs, Hammers in the Fire and The United States and Britain in Prophecy.

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The Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

Summa Contra Gentiles, by St. Thomas Acquinas

 

The Everlasting Man, and Orthodoxy, both by G. K. Chesterton

 

Mere Christianity, and The Abolition of Man, both by C. S. Lewis.

 

Lost in the Cosmos, by Walter Percy

 

Christianity for Modern Pagans: Pascal's Pensees, by Peter Kreeft

(Kreeft has a lot of very good mp3's on his website)

 

 

 

Great list. I would also add The Screwtape Letters and Letters to Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer by CS Lewis.

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The Blackwell companion to natural theology should also be on your list.

 

Along with evidence that demands a verdict by Josh McDowell, A case for Christ by Lee Strobel and Atheism and its scientific pretensions by David Berlinski.

 

That last one is especially important to this forum.

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Not that I have a religious bone in my body, but some of the verses in the King James version of the bible are truley beautiful.

I would definitely recommend reading Tao Teh Ching by Lao Tzu. It's a short book of just 81 verses. you can pick it up, read a few verses in any order and put it down again.

 

A translation of it is available here

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I've come across this fantastic book recommended by a friend, it's written by Professor William S. Hatcher who is a Mathematician, Philosopher (Platonic philosopher), and Educator.

 

The Book is called: Love, Power, and Justice: The Dynamics of Authentic Morality, which explores issues of authentic morality. The author does it in a very interesting manner by introducing definitions and axioms, and going on to producing proofs based on the assumptions made.

 

It also has in the appendix II: "Sketch of Formalized Version of the Proof of the Existence of God."

 

Very interesting read.

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The Science of God: Gerald L. Schroeder

 

I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist: Norman L. Greisler

 

THE GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED: MOSES MAIMONIDES(12th century Kabbalah but approaches modern cosmology and quantum physics)

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THE GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED: MOSES MAIMONIDES(12th century Kabbalah but approaches modern cosmology and quantum physics)

 

 

Just to give you an inkling of how far Maimonides (a Jewish Rabbi and "Physician", 12th Century) was beyond his time:

 

'Aristotle was well aware that he had not  proved the Eternity of the Universe.

 

.....he maintains that time is eternal, for time is  related to and connected with motion : there is no motion except in time, and  time can only be perceived by motion, as has been demonstrated by proof. By this  argument Aristotle proves the eternity of the Universe. ..

 

...I will,  by philosophical reasoning, show that our theory of the Creation is more  acceptable than that of the Eternity of the Universe;..

 

...."EVERYTHING produced comes into existence from non-existence;....."

 

"Owing to the absence of all proof, we reject the  theory of the Eternity of the Universe: and it is for this very reason that the  noblest minds spent and will spend their days in research. . For if the Creation  had been demonstrated by proof, even if only according to the Platonic  hypothesis, all arguments of the philosophers against us would be of no avail.  If, on the other hand, Aristotle had a proof for his theory, the whole teaching  of Scripture would be rejected, and we should be forced to other opinions. I  have thus shown that all depends on this question. Note it. "

 

Maimonides, Moses (1135 - 1204); Abrahams, Israel; Slouschz, Nahum; Hallevi, Judah; Spinoza, Baruch; Rapaport, Samuel; Bentwich, Norman; Ginzberg, Louis (2009-03-10). Classics of Judaism: 11 great books of Jewish wisdom in a single file, with active table of contents, improved 1/12/2011 (Kindle Locations 57455-57459). B&R Samizdat Express. Kindle Edition.

 

 

Maimonides, Moses (1135 - 1204).

 

"According to Aristotle, motion, that is to say, motion par  excellence, is eternal."

 

""The upward motion of a stone, owing to a force applied to it in that direction, is an instance of a motion due to an external force. The motion of a nail in a boat may serve to illustrate motion due to the participation of a thing in the motion of another thing; for when the boat moves, the nail is said to move likewise. The same is the case with everything composed of several parts: when the thing itself moves, every part of it is likewise said to move. ""

 

 

Sir Isaac Newton (1642 -1727):

Newton's First Law of Motion: an object at rest tends to stay at rest and that an object in uniform motion tends to stay in uniform motion unless acted upon by a net external force.

 

Who deserves credit for the First Law of Motion?

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!

Moderator Note

I've removed the last three posts from this thread, as they have not a single thing to do with the topic at hand.

afungusamongus, in the future, please do not enter threads for the sole purpose of creating a flame war.

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I recommend the Talmud of Jmmanuel it's historical significance if accurate makes it

the most important document ever discovered. This document depicts the life of

Jmmanuel who was known as Jesus in great detail. The question is where did this

document come from, is it a forgery by whom for what purpose and why?

 

It has historical significance and can be viewed at

 

http://www.fourwinds10.net/journals/talmud/talmud.pdf

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I guess this is the place to say it.

 

The Book of Mormon is either of God or it is not. When we introduce someone to it, we teach them from it, and invite them to learn about it. They can read from anywhere in the text, though we have a few pleces we like them to see and think about. Then we point out Moroni 10:4-5-where the prophet Moroni promises to the reader of the book, that IF they will read the book, consider it in the light of the biblical text and God's dealings both with peoples in the past, then, being obedient to divine laws, & believing that they will be answered, ask God, in the name of Christ if it is a true record-they will recieve an answer that it is a true record. This testimony is the foundation of our faith, that we know, from divine sources that the Book of Moromon is of God. That personal proof is available to all mankind whom will pay the price to receive it. There are certain logical extensions from that proof. That how we came by the book is a true account, and that Joseph Smith Jnr was indeed a prophet-and so forth to the present day.

Edited by dumbbloke

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I guess this is the place to say it.

 

The Book of Mormon is either of God or it is not. When we introduce someone to it, we teach them from it, and invite them to learn about it. They can read from anywhere in the text, though we have a few pleces we like them to see and think about. Then we point out Moroni 10:4-5-where the prophet Moroni promises to the reader of the book, that IF they will read the book, consider it in the light of the biblical text and God's dealings both with peoples in the past, then, being obedient to divine laws, & believing that they will be answered, ask God, in the name of Christ if it is a true record-they will recieve an answer that it is a true record. This testimony is the foundation of our faith, that we know, from divine sources that the Book of Moromon is of God. That personal proof is available to all mankind whom will pay the price to receive it. There are certain logical extensions from that proof. That how we came by the book is a true account, and that Joseph Smith Jnr was indeed a prophet-and so forth to the present day.

 

 

I suggest you read this http://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith

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Suggest all you like, there are well known rebuttals to your claims. And you haven't addressed the main idea--have you spiritually proven the Book of Mormon true or false? That is the crux of the matter-if it is true then you need to come into line. If it is not, then you are free to go your own way. If you make no sincere attempt-you are under condemnation.

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Suggest all you like, there are well known rebuttals to your claims. And you haven't addressed the main idea--have you spiritually proven the Book of Mormon true or false? That is the crux of the matter-if it is true then you need to come into line. If it is not, then you are free to go your own way. If you make no sincere attempt-you are under condemnation.

 

 

The book of Mormon is demonstrably false, it is based on the lies of a convicted con artist, many glaring discrepancies exist, for instance the native Americans are not the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel....

 

If you want to debate the existence of God I suggest you start another thread, this is not the thread for that...

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