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if karma existed then why are there children's hospitals and children committing suicide?


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if karma existed then why are there children's hospitals and children committing suicide? 

I know some people will say oh its something they did in their past lives, but I think that is a BS excuse to not admit that life is not fair for some possibly many people. 

if there were past lives why dosent it work that the people get punished in them rather then a different life wouldn't that make more sense? 

I just found out that a child I used to babysit and play with commit suicide. I did not even get to go to their funeral because they are in Europe. She did it because she was spanked at home and bullied at school and it all just got to her. I talked to a few of her relatives.  it was really tough for me to handle and still is, I hope I will feel better with time but I just find myself thinking about it more and more now. it just makes me upset hearing from people that they support spanking their children, I just can not believe anyone spanks a child.this is the first and only person i know who commit suicide and she was a young kid so its really hard for me to handle.  I feel so strongly about this topic. I hope one day no one will ever spank any children. What kind of justification can you give to say that spanking a child is moral? 

I used to volunteer at a children's hospital and I heard there were babies born with cancer. it doesnt sit well with me saying these kids deserve terminal illnesses, there are kids born with all different types of things, deformations, HIV and other things. I used to think that volunteering there would bring me some sort of fulfillment and satisfaction but it did the opposite, i just could not believe how horrible life is for some people. 

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32 minutes ago, Lyudmilascience said:

if karma existed then why are there children's hospitals and children committing suicide? 

This question (which is a common one) is based on a westernised (mis-)understanding of karma that has little to do with the original concept as it was conceived in Eastern philosophy. Karma is not a deterministic process, and it is not an external principle of “reward and judgement”. The basic idea is simply that any intentional (!) action will have future consequences of some kind; but the reverse is not true - not everything that happens is necessarily the deterministic consequence of some past karma. It needs to be remembered that in Eastern philosophical systems, there are two types of causation - there is linear causation, and there is synchronous causation. Linear causation connections events over time, whereas synchronous causation connects objects and events in the present. Both of these are always active, so both the past and the present influence what happens to us in our lives. 

This means that yes, if you intentionally harm others, it will in all likelihood eventually come back to you in some shape or form (linear causation); but a child can also die in an Earthquake, or catch some horrible disease, simply on account of having - by pure coincidence - been at the wrong place at the wrong time, and without this being the result of any intentional action in the past. 

The cut a long story short - karma (intentional action) influences events, but it does not determine them. It is not a principle of moral judgement, and was never intended like that.

32 minutes ago, Lyudmilascience said:

it doesnt sit well with me saying these kids deserve terminal illnesses

This sounds more like the “problem of evil” in theistic religions, which is different from the concept of karma.

Edited by Markus Hanke
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5 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

The cut a long story short - karma (intentional action) influences events, but it does not determine them. It is not a principle of moral judgement, and was never intended like that.

IOW smile and the world smiles back, frown and the world turns it's back.

Excellent post, Markus +1.

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On 7/13/2018 at 3:20 AM, Lyudmilascience said:

if karma existed then why are there children's hospitals and children committing suicide? 

I know some people will say oh its something they did in their past lives, but I think that is a BS excuse to not admit that life is not fair for some possibly many people. 

if there were past lives why dosent it work that the people get punished in them rather then a different life wouldn't that make more sense? 

I just found out that a child I used to babysit and play with commit suicide. I did not even get to go to their funeral because they are in Europe. She did it because she was spanked at home and bullied at school and it all just got to her. I talked to a few of her relatives.  it was really tough for me to handle and still is, I hope I will feel better with time but I just find myself thinking about it more and more now. it just makes me upset hearing from people that they support spanking their children, I just can not believe anyone spanks a child.this is the first and only person i know who commit suicide and she was a young kid so its really hard for me to handle.  I feel so strongly about this topic. I hope one day no one will ever spank any children. What kind of justification can you give to say that spanking a child is moral? 

I used to volunteer at a children's hospital and I heard there were babies born with cancer. it doesnt sit well with me saying these kids deserve terminal illnesses, there are kids born with all different types of things, deformations, HIV and other things. I used to think that volunteering there would bring me some sort of fulfillment and satisfaction but it did the opposite, i just could not believe how horrible life is for some people. 

Sorry to hear about the child you had cared for. There is no justification, IMO, for believing children come into the World deserving hardships such as the ones you have alluded to. Life is precious and amazing but not always fair.

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yea it really makes me feel like the world is not fair, and it makes me less motivated because i might not get rewarded for my effort. the odd thing is i did not cry right away, i did not feel bad right away but when it hit ,it hit hard, i started crying the next day over dropping a dish. I feel bad over that, I still really loved her. is it normal not to cry right away? 

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42 minutes ago, Lyudmilascience said:

yea it really makes me feel like the world is not fair, and it makes me less motivated because i might not get rewarded for my effort. the odd thing is i did not cry right away, i did not feel bad right away but when it hit ,it hit hard, i started crying the next day over dropping a dish. I feel bad over that, I still really loved her. is it normal not to cry right away? 

Everyone has their own process when dealing with the meaninglessness of everything and indifference of life and the universe. I drank myself to a stupor almost every day for a decade. 

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10 hours ago, Lyudmilascience said:

yea it really makes me feel like the world is not fair, and it makes me less motivated because i might not get rewarded for my effort. the odd thing is i did not cry right away, i did not feel bad right away but when it hit ,it hit hard, i started crying the next day over dropping a dish. I feel bad over that, I still really loved her. is it normal not to cry right away? 

I think that is very normal and/or common, and as you were unable to attend the funeral or have the equivalent with friends that knew her well it may take a little more time. It can be a bit of a roller coaster. Sometimes you my get upset when certain memories come up, and sometimes you may laugh. It is all part of a process and hopefully things improve over time. It does for most of us, most of the time, as part of a healthy response.

Having a foundation of faith can help, even if not tied to a specific Religion.  It doesn't need to be dogmatic. Different things work for different people.

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The only type of Karma that really exists can be expressed with the saying: "What goes around, comes around"
If you keep on being a d***k for long enough, eventually it'll catch up with you.

@Lyudmilascience I'm very sory to hear about the kid you used to babysit. The best you can do is what you're doing - telling people about it. 

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11 hours ago, Lyudmilascience said:

yea it really makes me feel like the world is not fair, and it makes me less motivated because i might not get rewarded for my effort. the odd thing is i did not cry right away, i did not feel bad right away but when it hit ,it hit hard, i started crying the next day over dropping a dish. I feel bad over that, I still really loved her. is it normal not to cry right away? 

I laughed when my father told me he was divorcing mum, I was nine, I also laughed when my father told me my grandfather just died and I literally pissed myself trying not to laugh at a good friends wedding; it's not fair that my father thinks I'm cold and distant because of it, since I didn't mean it...   

Edited by dimreepr
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28 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I laughed when my father told me he was divorcing mum, I was nine, I also laughed when my father told me my grandfather just died and I literally pissed myself trying not to laugh at a good friends wedding; it's not fair that my father thinks I'm cold and distant because of it, since I didn't mean it...   

My grief is usually postponed, sometimes by weeks but then I cry incessantly over something that has nothing to do with my actual grief. 

 

With apologies too  @Markus Hanke if Karma was real I know several people who would burst into flames right now... 

Edited by Moontanman
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6 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

With apologies too  @Markus Hanke if Karma was real I know several people who would burst into flames right now... 

 

Karma is real and they'd only do that if they were sat too close to the fire; not everything that appears spiritual is false...

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4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Karma is real and they'd only do that if they were sat too close to the fire; not everything that appears spiritual is false...

Well Karma is taking it's sweet time for sure... One of them is the luckiest bastard i ever saw... 

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1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Come on moon, you can do better than that...

Nope nope nope, the feds are riding their snail steeds to the rescue, so far they are 55 years too late... 

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1 minute ago, Moontanman said:

 the feds are riding their snail steeds to the rescue, so far they are 55 years too late... 

I don't know what that means...

5 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Come on moon, you can do better than that...

3 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Nope nope nope

Seems we agree...

 

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12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I don't know what that means...

NCIS, nothing like the TV show. 

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Seems we agree...

 

Agree that doing time for asking questions is bad Mkay... 

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On 7/13/2018 at 7:20 AM, Lyudmilascience said:

if karma existed then why are there children's hospitals and children committing suicide?

Karma doesn't exist. Someone made it up. Like all the other silly religious and semi-religious hoo ha. It was invented at a time when everything was mysterious, and there was very little scientific knowledge. You can understand people inventing these things, when there is nothing better on offer. People still hold to some of it now, through wishful thinking, and indoctrination.

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3 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Karma doesn't exist. Someone made it up. Like all the other silly religious and semi-religious hoo ha. It was invented at a time when everything was mysterious, and there was very little scientific knowledge. You can understand people inventing these things, when there is nothing better on offer. People still hold to some of it now, through wishful thinking, and indoctrination.

If I hadn't run out of + for the day I'd give you one for that... 

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25 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Karma doesn't exist. Someone made it up. Like all the other silly religious and semi-religious hoo ha. It was invented at a time when everything was mysterious, and there was very little scientific knowledge. You can understand people inventing these things, when there is nothing better on offer. People still hold to some of it now, through wishful thinking, and indoctrination.

Did you ever smile at someone who smiled back?

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On 13.07.2018 at 8:20 AM, Lyudmilascience said:

I used to volunteer at a children's hospital and I heard there were babies born with cancer. (...)

1) radioactive isotope of Carbon C-14 or Potassium K-40 decayed in the wrong molecule, in the wrong moment, destroyed DNA of some cell, caused mutation, which resulted in cancer..

2) primary (or secondary) cosmic ray particle (the most likely from the Sun), hit DNA molecule, or surrounding it molecules, transformed them, and damaged DNA like above..

3) free radical reacted with DNA, damaging it..

4) [....]

 

 

On 13.07.2018 at 8:20 AM, Lyudmilascience said:

it doesn't sit well with me saying these kids deserve terminal illnesses, there are kids born with all different types of things, deformations, HIV and other things.

Some mothers, and fathers, "asked" for it by them self, by drinking alcohol, using cigarettes and narcotics, eating unhealthy and/or carcinogenic food..

Now we have "flood of stupidity", i.e. anti-vaccine movement.. If such people will win, and persuade politicians and spread their stupidity worldwide, we will see more children suffering illnesses almost destroyed in XX century in western countries, and you will go back to XIX century and earlier..

 

 

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On 7/16/2018 at 2:28 PM, Sensei said:

1) radioactive isotope of Carbon C-14 or Potassium K-40 decayed in the wrong molecule, in the wrong moment, destroyed DNA of some cell, caused mutation, which resulted in cancer..

2) primary (or secondary) cosmic ray particle (the most likely from the Sun), hit DNA molecule, or surrounding it molecules, transformed them, and damaged DNA like above..

3) free radical reacted with DNA, damaging it..

4) [....]

 

 

Some mothers, and fathers, "asked" for it by them self, by drinking alcohol, using cigarettes and narcotics, eating unhealthy and/or carcinogenic food..

Now we have "flood of stupidity", i.e. anti-vaccine movement.. If such people will win, and persuade politicians and spread their stupidity worldwide, we will see more children suffering illnesses almost destroyed in XX century in western countries, and you will go back to XIX century and earlier..

 

 

yea that's a good answer, I agree the parents are causing it. But then those exact kids would be punished straight from birth, they could have been born to healthy parents that dont do any of thoes things, and there are healthy parents that still have kids born with deformities because of their own genetics. I am having a real hard time getting over it but I really hope that karma does not exist, not that i have done anything bad, but because I dont want there to be injustices blamed on children, like saying they did something bad in their pased lives, even adults, blamed that way. 

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It's not just that Karma doesn't exist, except in our heads. Good and bad, which it is based on, only exists in our heads as well. They are basically the consensus of human opinion on how we should treat others. Killing innocent children, for example, is frowned on by every society, in normal times. (not that it stopped King Herod, according to the Bible). So we regard it as bad. But that's all it is, the expected and usual opinion of the majority of people.

Male Lions kill innocent cubs when they take over a pride of females. The females don't like it at the time. But their next reaction is to come into season and mate with the killers of their cubs. It's nature, neither good nor bad to them. 

There's no reason for good and bad actions to have some sort of magical persistence in time, other than being remembered as a favour or wrong done to others. There is no magical memory, outside of the human brain. And the idea of rebirth is just as silly. So Karma might be real, if it's a result of actual actions by real people repaying favours etc. Otherwise, it's just fantasy.

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