Butch Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Some of Trump's tweets are well... Would we really rather have a president that hides behind closed doors and speaks only via a speech writer or a very strategic press secretary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten oz Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 53 minutes ago, Butch said: Some of Trump's tweets are well... Would we really rather have a president that hides behind closed doors and speaks only via a speech writer or a very strategic press secretary? Yes!!!! I want my government and those serving in it to be strategic. The President of the United States represents, is suppose to be serving, everyone in the country and not merely his own sloppy thoughts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Surely, there’s an in-between here and we have options other than “hide behind scripted robots” and “tweet crazy hateful shit that divides people and threatens to trigger world wars.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Trump epitomises the saying: money can't buy class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 On 11/4/2017 at 3:46 PM, Butch said: Some of Trump's tweets are well... Would we really rather have a president that hides behind closed doors and speaks only via a speech writer or a very strategic press secretary? ! Moderator Note False dichotomy. Please try and avoid logical fallacies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I conflate "speak" with inform, and when my president speaks, I raise the bar quite a bit. He represents the most accurate information about my country I'm supposed to have, compiled from the heads of the executive departments. I stopped counting the number of times his tweets failed fact-checking, which means it was willful misinformation, considering he must have folks who can look this stuff up like I did. I think this is a horrible way to be spoken to by the POTUS. But he reaches for the lie first when he speaks directly, so I'm not sure the medium makes much difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 Well, I don't follow his tweets(obviously the media does). I think that someone that speaks off the top of their head, may often speak wrongly, foolishly or unpleasantly... But at least they are speaking honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten oz Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, Butch said: Well, I don't follow his tweets(obviously the media does). I think that someone that speaks off the top of their head, may often speak wrongly, foolishly or unpleasantly... But at least they are speaking honestly. Trump regularly doubles, triples, and quadruples down on his statements. Implying his remarks are just off the top of his head errors is disingenuous. I challenge you to name a SINGLE time Trump has ever indicated that he misspoke or didn't mean what he had said or tweeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 43 minutes ago, Butch said: But at least they are speaking honestly. If you think he's speaking honestly, then how can you honestly think he's fit to be in his position? I also think you're making a mistake with your line of thinking. You're lending him a LOT of power when you give him credit for "calling a spade a spade" (or whatever phrase one might use to try to excuse crude behavior and appalling prejudice), like it somehow magically makes it both relevant and appropriate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuco Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Question is which "Trump tweets" are Tump's own: http://www.newsweek.com/does-trump-write-his-own-tweets-677821 Also, the trend of strategic speechwriting in the second decade of the 21st century being dumbed down to 140 characters is kind of disturbing to me. Mr Trump is the first Twitter president and I suspect there will be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) On 11/5/2017 at 10:08 AM, Ten oz said: Trump regularly doubles, triples, and quadruples down on his statements. Implying his remarks are just off the top of his head errors is disingenuous. I challenge you to name a SINGLE time Trump has ever indicated that he misspoke or didn't mean what he had said or tweeted. He never does, he says what he thinks, not what he thinks is popular, doesn't mean he isn't wrong... Just means he expresses himself honestly. On 11/5/2017 at 10:33 AM, Phi for All said: If you think he's speaking honestly, then how can you honestly think he's fit to be in his position? I also think you're making a mistake with your line of thinking. You're lending him a LOT of power when you give him credit for "calling a spade a spade" (or whatever phrase one might use to try to excuse crude behavior and appalling prejudice), like it somehow magically makes it both relevant and appropriate. Politicians have been using office to their own benefit way to long. I don't believe Trump is the best president we ever had, but I do believe he is a statesman who will break up the party on both sides of the fence and give this government back to the people. Edited November 6, 2017 by Butch -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Butch said: He never does, he says what he thinks, not what he thinks is popular, doesn't mean he isn't wrong... Just means he expresses himself honestly. But he never says the same thing twice. He lies; and then he lies about lying. That's not being "honest" it's being incompetent, and dishonest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 On 11/5/2017 at 10:48 AM, tuco said: Question is which "Trump tweets" are Tump's own: http://www.newsweek.com/does-trump-write-his-own-tweets-677821 Also, the trend of strategic speechwriting in the second decade of the 21st century being dumbed down to 140 characters is kind of disturbing to me. Mr Trump is the first Twitter president and I suspect there will be more. I don't believe Trump with his super enormous ego will have anyone speaking for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Butch said: he says what he thinks No he dosent he says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. 4 minutes ago, Butch said: doesn't mean he isn't wrong... Just means he expresses himself honestly. He is often wrong and rarely honest. I have no problem with him using Twitter, Facebook or any other medium that suits him. I have a big problem with what he says most of the time. 2 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: That's not being "honest" it's being incompetent, and dishonest. And being dishonest about being dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Butch said: I don't believe Trump with his super enormous ego will have anyone speaking for him. The problem is not that nobody speaks for him, but that he speaks for nobody but himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 1 minute ago, John Cuthber said: But he never says the same thing twice. He lies; and then he lies about lying. That's not being "honest" it's being incompetent, and dishonest. That is not true, you had better check your facts, he does not make apologies or change his story for anyone... Remember where he came from, the business world is a lot tougher than the hill! 2 minutes ago, Outrider said: No he dosent he says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. He is often wrong and rarely honest. I have no problem with him using Twitter, Facebook or any other medium that suits him. I have a big problem with what he says most of the time. And being dishonest about being dishonest. At least he still says it without consideration about who will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Butch said: At least he still says it without consideration about who will like it. Apparently we value different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Butch said: That is not true, you had better check your facts, he does not make apologies or change his story for anyone... Remember where he came from, the business world is a lot tougher than the hill! Come off it. Were you kidding when you said that? http://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/president-donald-trump-u-turns-on-6-issues Also, he's shit at business. If he had just bought real estate with the famous "small loan of a million dollars" from his dad, he would be much richer. Instead he managed to go bankrupt repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 1 minute ago, John Cuthber said: The problem is not that nobody speaks for him, but that he speaks for nobody but himself. That is what we all do, if a man speaks his mind and the people agree for the most part... He might become president! Not trying to be sexist, I used the term man only because of Trump's gender. Just now, John Cuthber said: Come off it. Were you kidding when you said that? http://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/president-donald-trump-u-turns-on-6-issues Also, he's shit at business. If he had just bought real estate with the famous "small loan of a million dollars" from his dad, he would be much richer. Instead he managed to go bankrupt repeatedly. Again, you had better check your facts... Donald Trump has never been bankrupt. 2 minutes ago, Outrider said: Apparently we value different things. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Butch said: That is what we all do, if a man speaks his mind and the people agree for the most part... He might become president! Not trying to be sexist, I used the term man only because of Trump's gender. Again, you had better check your facts... Donald Trump has never been bankrupt. The job of a president is to speak for all. Any twit can speak for themselves. Re fact checking. You just broke the irony meter http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) Before we get to Trump University, let me ask the students here... Did you pay your tuition and have knowledge injected into your veins... Or did you have to work hard to learn? 3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said: The job of a president is to speak for all. Any twit can speak for themselves. Re fact checking. You just broke the irony meter http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/ Trump doesn’t deny that four of his businesses have filed for bankruptcy. He argues, however, that filing for bankruptcy is a common business decision, and he was smart to make the moves when he did. His businesses filed reorganizational bankruptcy, He has never filed any form of bankruptcy. No one can speak for everyone. Politicians are just good at using language so that you believe they are. Edited November 6, 2017 by Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 11 minutes ago, Butch said: That is not true, you had better check your facts, he does not make apologies or change his story for anyone... <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Senate Republicans don't get rid of the Filibuster Rule and go to a 51% majority, few bills will be passed. 8 Dems control the Senate!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/901029770401546243?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Few, if any, Administrations have done more in just 7 months than the Trump A. Bills passed, regulations killed, border, military, ISIS, SC!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/901032475111116800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 I didn't pay for my tuition. I lived in a civilised country where the State recognised that society at large is the greatest beneficiary from an educated population, so they paid. Obviously, I had to work to learn, but I was free from worrying about funding, so I had the chance to study more. Have you given up trying to pretend that Trump is honest? Is that why you changed the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 16 minutes ago, Outrider said: 24 minutes ago, Butch said: he says what he thinks No he dosent he says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. He speaks what he believes and hopes to have the support of the people, that is why they all hate him on Capitol Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Butch said: He speaks what he believes We have already pointed out that he changes his story more often than some folk change their socks. If he believes one thing on odd numbered days and another thing on even numbered ones, doesn't that show he's just swaying in the breeze of public opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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