[mooeypoo]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

What? What had a one in a million chance of happening, and was given ten billion tries?

Every step in the evolution of life.

[njaohnt]

Cap, on 19 April 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Why does a miracle imply the existence of a Christian god, rather than merely implying that there are parts of reality we do not fully understand? God is not the only explanatory option; it could be any other force that we don't yet understand, including natural ones.

"I don't know why that happened" doesn't mean "God must have done it." Not until we understand the universe well enough to eliminate every other possibility.

Such as what? What would force would do such things?
Let's say that He does exist, for sure, for now.
How, are you going to go to heaven if you keep on saying that there could be some other force doing it. You're now going against what atheism is all about. Evidence. If there is evidence for a god, and you continue to say "Why does a miracle imply the existence of a Christian god" that is worse than saying "I think that the evidence of God is greater than the evidence of atheism".
Do you see what you're saying here?
Do all you people who pressed +1 realize this?

Moontanman, on 19 April 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

njaohnt.... How insulting, the program actually admits they cannot prove anything at around 07:00, if you seriously cannot do any better than that then I don't see any reason to continue to even discuss this. i will point out that the bible is demonstrably wrong about so much it calls into question everything else to anyone who has any flicker of rational thought. just because some of the people and places in the bible can be verified does not prove anything. I could write a story about alien invasion of New York City and use the names of real people, real places and even real events but it wouldn't the make the alien invasion real. I mean seriously.... I want my 10 minutes back on that one...

Maybe you should spend another 10 minutes...
Did I not say "A fake?" at the end of my post?
You can make a fake, but what do you want? The reason why I think that God doesn't make tons of miracles like you say He should, is because then you would get people like Cap'n Refsmmat. The less a miracle happens, the more people who see the miracle, take it as a miracle.

mooeypoo, on 19 April 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Every step in the evolution of life.

Then why aren't new animals coming out? It seems more like we were given 1 chance...all these years, what animals have come out?

[Arete]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

what animals have come out?

For a start, these ones:
fruit flies
http://onlinelibrary...tomisedMessage=
birds
http://rspb.royalsoc...2011.2170.short
mosquitoes
http://www.sciencema.../6003/512.short
shrimp
http://epic.awi.de/22811/
fish
http://www.springerl...l7526616862072/
lizards
http://www.biomedcen...471-2148/11/347

you get the idea.

Here's an overview of incipient speciation in general
http://www.talkorigi...c/CB/CB910.html

[Moontanman]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Yeah, but why did the needle not go in? I think God healed him.

I think Krishna healed him... show how I am wrong...

This post has been edited by Moontanman: 20 April 2012 - 12:04 AM

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

Such as what? What would force would do such things?
Let's say that He does exist, for sure, for now.
How, are you going to go to heaven if you keep on saying that there could be some other force doing it. You're now going against what atheism is all about. Evidence. If there is evidence for a god, and you continue to say "Why does a miracle imply the existence of a Christian god" that is worse than saying "I think that the evidence of God is greater than the evidence of atheism".
Do you see what you're saying here?
Do all you people who pressed +1 realize this?

I don't see your point.

A miracle is, by definition, some event so spectacular that it can't be explained by any known cause. That leaves unknown or supernatural causes. So, by definition, I can't tell you what force would do such things. To claim that no natural force in existence could possibly cause such events to occur, however, is to claim that we fully understand the natural world and can describe the behavior of every natural system in existence.

Not terribly long in the past, lightning had no known natural cause, and was attributed to a variety of deities. But it was not evidence for their existence. It was evidence for our ignorance.

[doG]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

You're now going against what atheism is all about. Evidence.

Wow. You're really having a hard time grasping what the term atheist means huh? Atheism IS NOT about evidence, it's about the lack of evidence to support any conclusion that one or more deities exist. Theists conclude that there is in fact one or more deities based on faith alone. Atheists refuse to do the same because they are holding out for evidence, real verifiable, testable evidence.

[zapatos]

doG, on 20 April 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Wow. You're really having a hard time grasping what the term atheist means huh? Atheism IS NOT about evidence, it's about the lack of evidence to support any conclusion that one or more deities exist. Theists conclude that there is in fact one or more deities based on faith alone. Atheists refuse to do the same because they are holding out for evidence, real verifiable, testable evidence.

I know you didn't mean it this way but the wording sounded strange to me...

[doG]

zapatos, on 20 April 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I know you didn't mean it this way but the wording sounded strange to me...

Depends on the view that atheist simply means not-theist. Atheists are not-theist because there is no evidence to support being theist.

[zapatos]

doG, on 20 April 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

Depends on the view that atheist simply means not-theist. Atheists are not-theist because there is no evidence to support being theist.

Yes, I understood what you were saying. I wasn't questioning that. I was just pointing out that in your post you said, among other things:

'Atheism is not about evidence, it is about wanting evidence.'

I just thought it was an interesting way to say it.

[mooeypoo]

This is very relevant, and very much worth the careful inspection, especially in light of the latest few posts:

[ydoaPs]

njaohnt, on 19 April 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Yeah, but why did the needle not go in? I think God healed him.

Moontanman, on 20 April 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

I think Krishna healed him... show how I am wrong...

You're wrong; It was extraterrestrials!

Quote

What? What had a one in a million chance of happening, and was given ten billion tries?

Spontaneous remission

This post has been edited by ydoaPs: 21 April 2012 - 12:42 PM