Tides

[Gardon Thomas]

Tides

 

majestic, and endlessly changing the earth, truly the evidence of eternal glory and hope for this great place we call home.

 

I however am having great trouble finding the results of the research,

Is it so, that when the tide recedes in the North it comes back in the south hemisphere?

or

Does, the tide come back in the Eastern coasts while receding in the western ones?

(North and South vs. East and West)

 

 

Thank you for your assistance and efforts, or even consideration to this mystical yet oh so discernible question.

I truly believe this should be taught in school, 6th grade.

 

 

 

With the Tides under consideration:

It is largely excepted that the tides are governed by the gravitational pull of the sun and moon, as well as the earths Coriolis effect.

Though while researching the Tides, usually only one of those effects are considered in a document.

 

However, if you are like myself, then you do not believe in the theory of gravity, and

The Sun and Moon heating the ocean, swelling it, becomes a much more logical answer to Tide sciences.

It is the most logical answer regarding the effects of the position of the moon in accordance to the neap tides,

because the moon warms it while shining brightest. Thus the tide comes in at the same time every day no mater where the moon is, because the sun's heat is constant.

Does anyone agree?

 

Gordon, Joseph T. F.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gardon Thomas

[D H]

Thus the tide comes in at the same time every day no mater where the moon is, because the sun's heat is constant.

Nonsense. The times of the tides are published. You can find them on the internet, on the news, in the papers.

[Gardon Thomas]

What is non sense?

 

according to the statement you've made regarding the quote you've associated with it in your reply,

Your saying what?

 

The published fact is:

that tides Do come in at the same time every day.

 

the theoretical portion of my question was whether or not it was dependent on heat rather than gravity.

[iNow]

The published fact is:

that tides Do come in at the same time every day.

Uhm... No.

 

http://freetidetables.com/

[Moontanman]

What is non sense?

 

according to the statement you've made regarding the quote you've associated with it in your reply,

Your saying what?

 

The published fact is:

that tides Do come in at the same time every day.

 

the theoretical portion of my question was whether or not it was dependent on heat rather than gravity.

 

 

I live at the ocean, the tides do not come in and out the same times each day, if someone has told you this they have lied to you, it is not a published fact. The gravitational effects of the sun and moon are the generators of the tides. Solar heating has nothing to do with it, the tides are not dependent on the oceans temps.

 

 

 

However, if you are like myself, then you do not believe in the theory of gravity, and

 

 

Gordon, Joseph T. F.

 

 

You do not believe in gravity?

[Daedalus]

However, if you are like myself, then you do not believe in the theory of gravity, and

The Sun and Moon heating the ocean, swelling it, becomes a much more logical answer to Tide sciences.

 

Is it that you do not believe in gravity's role in affecting bodies of water, or just gravity itself?

[Gardon Thomas]

Well thank you, iNow,

D H apologies, and thank you.

Moontanman, no I don't believe in Gravity.

 

Indeed I had been lied to, and somehow when I spent the time searching for tidal information, it phased me entirely.

 

But the purpose of this topic was,

(North and South vs. East and West)

 

where are the tides simultaneously. It's actually incredibly hard information to locate. since atlantic pacific ratios remain irrelivant even considering the North / South equation. The Atlantic ocean is long where as the pacific wide, water movement can be calculated various ways.

If anyone can answer this question, I'd be most pleased.

 

That said,

Moontanman, no I do not believe in gravity. I believe in aerodynamics.

Sky and Sea are both water, and react the same way, always clinging to each other and earth.

Thus sky and water act the same way, cling to earth and holding down their hosts, us.

I do not believe in the moon landing or space travel because there is no evidence the far side of the moon has been observed.

and the rule of aerodynamics makes it impossible to leave the atmosphere.

(you can't fly beyond the point where there is not enough moisture to propel yourself off off, and yet the atmosphere continues for such a greater distance,t he water pulls you back in, because that's how water reacts.)

 

please regard the topic first*

questions?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gardon Thomas

[mississippichem]

So what keeps rocks held down on planets and moons with no atmosphere?

 

You really don't believe in gravity? May I have a sample of that which you are smoking?

[Gardon Thomas]

I understand that planets and moons simply stay where they were put, and work how they were meant to work.

 

distant planets however have not to my understanding been visited,

so stipulating over the theoretical occurrence of them not having moisture contents holding them together is absurd to fathom.

And I would argue you are just as uneducated on the subject as myself.

Remember, the theory of Aerodynamics counts space sciences as voided, so your not making a substantial point.

 

that put in place,

 

(North and South vs. East and West)

anyone have an answer?

 

or perhaps,

does anyone potentially agree that,

 

the heat of the sun and moon have more to do with the ocean movement then the gravitational pull theory?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gardon Thomas

[StringJunky]

So what keeps rocks held down on planets and moons with no atmosphere?

 

 

Dark Water.

[Gardon Thomas]

no, moisture content.

 

does anyone one this website stick to the topic?

or is it all just a discussion?

 

I was actually searching fro an asnwer.

 

tides,

(North and South vs. East and West)

[Tres Juicy]

no I don't believe in Gravity.

 

 

 

So, are you floating around in your house right now?

 

Also, gravity is not a theory - it's an observed force of nature

 

Tides are reliant on gravity, there is motion due to convection but this does not affect the tidal action very much

 

As you have already discovered, your information about tides was completely wrong so I think your question has been answered.

 

Edit: Also, if the heat from the sun were constant, how would you explain winter?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Tres Juicy

[D H]

Well thank you, iNow,

D H apologies, and thank you.

Moontanman, no I don't believe in Gravity.

 

Indeed I had been lied to, and somehow when I spent the time searching for tidal information, it phased me entirely.

 

But the purpose of this topic was,

(North and South vs. East and West)

 

where are the tides simultaneously. It's actually incredibly hard information to locate. since atlantic pacific ratios remain irrelivant even considering the North / South equation. The Atlantic ocean is long where as the pacific wide, water movement can be calculated various ways.

If anyone can answer this question, I'd be most pleased.

 

That said,

Moontanman, no I do not believe in gravity. I believe in aerodynamics.

Sky and Sea are both water, and react the same way, always clinging to each other and earth.

Thus sky and water act the same way, cling to earth and holding down their hosts, us.

I do not believe in the moon landing or space travel because there is no evidence the far side of the moon has been observed.

and the rule of aerodynamics makes it impossible to leave the atmosphere.

(you can't fly beyond the point where there is not enough moisture to propel yourself off off, and yet the atmosphere continues for such a greater distance,t he water pulls you back in, because that's how water reacts.)

 

please regard the topic first*

questions?

Oh my. You believe in every crackpot notion in the books?

 

Regarding not landing on the Moon, use your brain. Were it a hoax, the number of people "in the know" would have been huge. The only way three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead. If it was a hoax, don't you think the Russians would have said so? They hacked NASA's signals. They would have seen that there were no signals coming from the Moon. There were. Of course we went to the Moon.

 

The Russians were the first to photograph the far side of the Moon. More recently, the Clementine mission mapped the entire Moon. Here are the near and far sides of the Moon, as observed by the Clementine mission:

 

You can find the Clementine photos online. For example, http://www.nrl.navy.mil/clm/

 

 

Back to the topic at hand, the thing that causes the tides is indeed gravity. The Earth as a whole is gravitationally attracted to the Moon. So is some little drop of water on the surface of the Earth. The acceleration of the Earth as a whole toward the Moon is a function of the distance between the Moon and the Earth's center of mass while the acceleration of that drop of water is a function of the distance between the Moon and that drop of water. These distances are not the same, making the acceleration of the Earth as a whole toward and the little drop of water toward the Moon differ by a bit. It is this difference between the Earth's acceleration as a whole toward the Moon (and the Sun) versus that at the surface of the Earth that drives the tides. Here's a pictorial depiction of these tidal forces:

 

 

Note how the tidal forces stretch the Earth in the direction of the Moon (or Sun) and squeeze it in the middle. These tidal forces act on the Earth as well as the oceans. The Earth itself is subject to the tides. These solid Earth tides are observed. Astronomers who want to point there modern telescopes to milliarcsecond accuracy need to account for how these Earth tides affect the pointing of there telescopes. Fortunately, modeling the Earth tides is a pretty simple affair. The tidal forces create small (< 1 meter) time varying bulges in the shape of the Earth, one bulge facing the Moon and the other opposite the Moon. Because the Moon's orbit about the Earth is not circular, these tidal bulges vary in magnitude as the Moon goes from perigee to apogee. The best way to model these variations is in the frequency domain. The largest magnitude frequencies are due to the Earth's daily rotation. Months, years, and even longer frequencies are also observable.

 

Modeling the ocean tides is not a simple affair. This simple two bulge model would apply if the Earth's oceans encompassed the Earth. They don't. The oceans can't form those bulges because the continents get into the way. The waves created bounce off the continents. Those primary and reflected waves interfere creating very complex interference patterns. That simple two bulge model is just wrong when it comes to the ocean tides. Modeling the ocean tides is an empirical science. Fortunately, the concept of looking at the tides in the frequency domain is still valid. The phase and magnitude of the frequencies that drive the tides change very, very slowly at any given location. The tidal charts are based on these frequency responses (phase and magnitude). That they accurately predict the tides is prima facie evidence that the underlying theory is correct.

 

What about the atmosphere? The solid Earth, the oceans, and the atmosphere react quite differently to those tidal forces. The Earth is solid, the oceans are liquid, and the atmosphere is a gas. It is naive (and wrong) to think that the reactions of solids, liquids, and gases should be similar. Solids are subject to sheer forces; liquids aren't. Gases are highly compressible; liquids aren't. Just because heating from the Sun is the key driver of dynamics in the atmosphere does not mean that it is also the key driver in the dynamics of the oceans or the Earth.

[Ophiolite]

You do not believe in gravity?

I'm not going to fall for that one.

[Moontanman]

I think it's proper to mention that not only have we actually landed men on the moon, we have put probes on mars, and on saturns moon titan, we have sent probes to every planet but pluto (i think one is on the way) and currently have a probe in orbit of an asteroid. I would like this guy to explain again why he thinks it's impossible to travel in outer space...

[Tres Juicy]

I think it's proper to mention that not only have we actually landed men on the moon, we have put probes on mars, and on saturns moon titan, we have sent probes to every planet but pluto (i think one is on the way) and currently have a probe in orbit of an asteroid. I would like this guy to explain again why he thinks it's impossible to travel in outer space...

 

 

Well, how would we get past the crystal dome?!

[Moontanman]

Well, how would we get past the crystal dome?!

 

 

They used the diamond tipped dome cutters silly.... all that water that flowed in was a bitch to get rid of...

[Tres Juicy]

They used the diamond tipped dome cutters silly.... all that water that flowed in was a bitch to get rid of...

 

 

This is why I'm glad there are experts here who can point out the error of my ways

[granpa]

[Gardon Thomas]

Thank you Granpa

for providing something substantial to the original question.

I'm wondering how accurate that is?

 

Tres Juicy

"Also, gravity is not a theory - it's an observed force of nature"

that is what makes it a theory. It's the observed effects. The observed effects can just as easily be applied to aerodynamics.

A - Air keeps me down in my house, miles of air.

 

and even if my information was wrong. the question is still relevant. Where does the tide go? (North/south or east/west?)

However my question was self answered. The tide goes south/north some times, and east/west others. Thank you for your consideration. Water is amazing .

 

winter. -

The Day vs. night ratios do not change [ 50, 50 %].

this doesn't change the fact that the earth is on an axis.

however since we proved that tides are not always at the same time, your question was ill thought out.

 

 

 

H D

"Oh my. You believe in every crackpot notion in the books?"

that is not a published claim.. I don't think, (The Sky keeps us on earth.): It's biblical.

also, your maps are not sufficient evidence. That, only known, Picture is not a photograph.

and if the satellite could dot hat, please, produce a second, varying angle.

It's a fake, obviously not a photograph, even you know that.

 

 

Moontanman, I'll explain the theory of aerodynamics contradiction gravity when Tres Juicy explains this allusion.

"Well, how would we get past the crystal dome?!"

 

 

but, if we want to get into the conspiracy involved in space travel,

consider that the USA is not the only one with a corrupt government,

which through outer atmosphere technology embezzles billions in war and satellites (industry). It takes only hundreds to falsely produce the information.

Intro: Babylon the Great.

also, 3 men can easily keep a secret H D, they have each other to keep themselves satisfied.

Cold war, meaning the governments were never directly threatened. Manifest destiny.

Space agencies fund industry and war. It's all about money and power.

do you really want to get int depth in this conversation?

 

 

 

 

ANSWER:

The oceans tides shift like water in a sink.

they go north and south sometimes and east and west others.

It's not a constant motion, but an over all reaction to the placement of the bulk at large.

 

 

however, Gravity is a theory because it is simply a lable on observed effects.a dn so,

the gravitational influences on the ocean are just as theoretical as the theory of the solar heating effect.

may the discussion go on.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Gardon Thomas

[Tres Juicy]

Tres Juicy

"Also, gravity is not a theory - it's an observed force of nature"

that is what makes it a theory. It's the observed effects. The observed effects can just as easily be applied to aerodynamics.

A - Air keeps me down in my house, miles of air.

 

This is clearly wrong in so many ways

 

winter. -

The Day vs. night ratios do not change [ 50, 50 %].

this doesn't change the fact that the earth is on an axis.

however since we proved that tides are not always at the same time, your question was ill thought out.

 

The day/night ratio is not 50/50, again you are wrong.

 

Thus the tide comes in at the same time every day no mater where the moon is, because the sun's heat is constant.

My question was related to your statement that "the heat from the sun is constant" which again, is wrong (otherwise we would not experience winter)

 

Moontanman, I'll explain the theory of aerodynamics contradiction gravity when Tres Juicy explains this allusion.

Well, how would we get past the crystal dome?!

 

Here I was alluding to the possibilty of you being a crackpot

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tres Juicy

[D H]

Gardon: Learn to use the quote button.

 

also, your maps are not sufficient evidence. That, only known, Picture is not a photograph.

and if the satellite could dot hat, please, produce a second, varying angle.

It's a fake, obviously not a photograph, even you know that.

I call troll.

 

It is not a fake. It was a real space mission to the Moon, one of the 54 successful missions to the Moon (plus 36 failed or incomplete missions). The Soviet Union/Russia, the US, the European space agency, the Japanese, the Chinese, and the Indians have launched vehicles to and around the Moon. The numbers of people involved is well over 100,000. Thinking that spaceflight is a hoax is <elided. If you can't say something nice ...>

 

 

however, Gravity is a theory because it is simply a lable on observed effects.a dn so,

the gravitational influences on the ocean are just as theoretical as the theory of the solar heating effect.

may the discussion go on.

I suggest you read up on what constitutes a scientific theory. Scientific theories are not something people make up after getting so drunk or so stoned that they cannot even think or write correctly.

Edited January 17, 2012 by D H

[Gardon Thomas]

ahah. nice illusion.

 

but,

Tres Juicy, saying I'm wrong is easy. prove it. That statement is in no way wrong unless, there is no space conspiracy. Which is beyond our faculty to discuss.

 

yes, the day night ratio is 50 50, the earth does not accelerate or slow it's revolutions. I am not talking about your house, I'm talking about the planet. Day is present fro approx. 12 hours and night is always approx. 12 hours.

 

and the suns heat is constant, it constantly provides the same heat all the time.

The differences measured in winter are because of the angle the land and bodies of water that are directly influenced by the heat, and the refraction of the atmosphere which acts as a magnifying glass would (inner and outer effects).

And since Moontanman , already made it evident that the tides do not come in at the same time, you've made no further point. Because the sun is still responsibly via heat, for the tides [ Uncontested ].

Gravitational pull, verses cooling and warming temperatures.

The heat is constant, the receiving surface changes*

 

 

 

I'll post the theory of Aerodynamics when the forum cools down. around 4am or something.

 

 

ps. D H,

you supported the conspiracy aspects more then anything. Only rich people had access to the military/industry information of the conspiracy.

ahah. not fake. it's clearly not a photograph, which was my point.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Gardon Thomas

[swansont]

"Also, gravity is not a theory - it's an observed force of nature"

that is what makes it a theory. It's the observed effects. The observed effects can just as easily be applied to aerodynamics.

A - Air keeps me down in my house, miles of air.

 

!

Moderator Note

An extraordinary claim (along with a few others). Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and the rules of this forum do as well. Post the evidence.

 

Do not respond to this modnote. Do not post more speculation or discussion. Posting your evidence is the only acceptable response.

[Moontanman]

ahah. nice illusion.

 

but,

Tres Juicy, saying I'm wrong is easy. prove it. That statement is in no way wrong unless, there is no space conspiracy. Which is beyond our faculty to discuss.

 

yes, the day night ratio is 50 50, the earth does not accelerate or slow it's revolutions. I am not talking about your house, I'm talking about the planet. Day is present fro approx. 12 hours and night is always approx. 12 hours.

 

and the suns heat is constant, it constantly provides the same heat all the time.

The differences measured in winter are because of the angle the land and bodies of water that are directly influenced by the heat, and the refraction of the atmosphere which acts as a magnifying glass would (inner and outer effects).

And since Moontanman , already made it evident that the tides do not come in at the same time, you've made no further point. Because the sun is still responsibly via heat, for the tides [ Uncontested ].

Gravitational pull, verses cooling and warming temperatures.

The heat is constant, the receiving surface changes*

 

 

 

I'll post the theory of Aerodynamics when the forum cools down. around 4am or something.

 

 

ps. D H,

you supported the conspiracy aspects more then anything. Only rich people had access to the military/industry information of the conspiracy.

ahah. not fake. it's clearly not a photograph, which was my point.

 

 

Ok Gardon, I'll assume you are serious and not just trolling for some weird conspiracy, in turn I expect you to seriously answer my questions.

 

#1. Why would you suggest that space travel is impossible?

 

#2. If you seriously think the tides are explained by solar heating think about this, I live in an area where the ocean temperatures vary by as much as 60 degrees Fahrenheit on a yearly basis, yet the tides increase and decrease on a monthly basis and tidal activity can be shown to be directly linked to the moon and it's position in relation to the earth and sun not the oceans temperatures. The tides are not the same every day, tide height and can change drastically when compared to the phases of the moon but temperatures do not increase or decrease on a daily basis more than 1 degree Fahrenheit, usually much less and no temperature increase or decrease can be used to predict the height of tides. On another note, yes onshore or off shore winds can affect the tides but cannot be used to predict the tides in advance like the effects of the sun and moon can be. The tides still occur no matter what the temperatures are doing.

 

#3. the crystal dome remark was regarding the religious assertion the earth is a flat disc covered by a crystal dome submerged under water. Sorry but it was a snide remark about silly ideas.

 

#4. Did you not see the remarkable illustration posted by grandpa?