So US senator can’t ask questions?

So they are going to arrest US senator for asking questions? US senator forcibly removed and arrested for asking questions.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Moon99

Apparently he didn't identify himself and was considered a threat so that's why the events happened.

8 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

Apparently he didn't identify himself and was considered a threat so that's why the events happened.

Considered a threat by whom and on what basis?

Your post maybe factually correct, but hey, do you consider the response reasonable? It's par fror the course in Nigeria (on occasion) but you guys are supposed to be setting the standard for civilised behaviour are you not?

32 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

Apparently he didn't identify himself and was considered a threat so that's why the events happened.

From what I have read (I haven't watched any of the videos), he did identify himself, and that claims that he didn't identify himself or that he was threatening were lies. It was also suggested that if they're willing to lie about events that took place in a room full of reporters, then what wouldn't they lie about?

Edited June 14Jun 14 by KJW

49 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

Apparently he didn't identify himself and was considered a threat so that's why the events happened.

No, definitely not. This is the spin some are putting on it, but there’s video, and he identified himself. He did not lunge toward the dais, either.

From his statement, he went through security and was escorted into the room earlier, and from photos you can see he was wearing a shirt that identified him as a senator.

But even if it didn’t, ICE isn’t showing badges, and they’re covering their faces!

2 hours ago, Moon99 said:

So they are going to arrest US senator for asking questions? US senator forcibly removed and arrested for asking questions.

He was not arrested, but he was detained. For being a democrat questioning this nazi regime

He wasn't On The Agenda. She was supposed to be giving a news conference on the protest in LA. But she wasn't answering questions, just making a speech - full of lies, btw. (Well, I mean, it's not like she has any qualifications to be talking about law-enforcement or immigration, so she just delivered all the usual platitudes, praising the armed forces that are there illegally for liberating LA and California from their democratically elected officials and lawful protesters, while the heroic masked ICE men rid them of all those unarmed murderers, drug traffickers, rapists, socialists and pedophiles who pack their chicken and pick their lettuce at minimum wage.... If you didn't hear the speech, you didn't miss anything.) Anyway, Padilla had gone through security; his presence was legitimate. He did interrupt her interminable prattle, saying "I have questions." Nothing threatening or hostile. Four guys jumped him immediately and dragged him out into the hall, forced him down on the floor and handcuffed him. That's all - no biggie; that's how they treat everyone. But he's on the watch-list now; I sincerely hope he doesn't have a dog.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Peterkin

He was brown. They saw him as an easy way to hit their ICE quota

Edited June 14Jun 14 by iNow

4 hours ago, swansont said:

He was not arrested, but he was detained. For being a democrat questioning this nazi regime

I understand your point, but comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

5 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

Can you recommend a better comparison

5 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your point, but comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the white supremacy, concentration camps, attitude toward opposing speech, arresting/detaining judges and political opponents, dismantling science and government, etc. seems very 1930’s Germany to me.

So just because the senator is asking questions about Ice in LA that is the reason to remove him and arrest him?

7 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your point, but comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

No, it's accurate. Trump is right on schedule. Fascism didn't begin with the big war: Before he was sort-of-elected, Hitler campaigned hard, at big loud rallies with lots of flags, on nationalism, the past glory of Germany, ethnic superiority, and distrust of 'dangerous' Others. From 1933 onward, Hitler sytematically replaced government functionaries with his own adherents, spread vicious lies about minorities, silenced opposition through intimidation, rounded up non-Aryan 'undesirables', eliminated independent journalism, increased military spending and militarized policing, held military parades, detached law enforcement from legal chains of command, attacked elected officials and disabled government agencies. He began to talk early on about annexing the territories of neighbouring nations and made alliances with other aggressive governments.

Any of that sound familiar?

Just now, Moon99 said:

So just because the senator is asking questions about Ice in LA that is the reason to remove him and arrest him?

Of course it is. He might have been about to challenge the whoppers told by the 'security' tzarina. That's not allowed in Trump's America.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Peterkin

8 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your point, but comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

I would encourage you to study the history. It clearly shows that this comparison isn't even a little extreme. This is a good time for some bullet-points.

32 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

This is a good time for some bullet-points.

The Generalissimo seems to think so. Watch his Big Parade tonight.

BREAKING NEWS

Two Minnesota state lawmakers were shot in apparent "targeted" incidents on Saturday that left them in grave condition, officials said, and a manhunt is now underway for the gunman.

A source familiar with the matter tells ABC News that the victims are state Sen. John Hoffman and state Rep. Melissa Hortman.

Both were shot at their homes and authorities believe the shooter was impersonating law enforcement, the source said.

ABC News

2 Minnesota lawmakers in grave condition after apparent '...

Two Minnesota state lawmakers were shot in apparent "targeted" incidents on Saturday that left them in grave condition, officials said.

Do you still think that comparisons to Nazi Germany of the 1930s are "a little extreme" ?

ETA - State Rep. Melissa Hortman, and her husband are both dead, Sen John Hoffman and his wife are in surgery.

What seemed the most outrageous attempt at putting lipstick on this pig of an event was claiming that Padilla was perceived as some unknown potential marauder. Right, the senior US Senator from California, at an LA presser. The Sturmabteilung is back, dimwit thugs and their corrupt Cabinet skank with the charisma and oratorical skills of used cat litter.

57 minutes ago, TheVat said:

What seemed the most outrageous attempt at putting lipstick on this pig of an event was claiming that Padilla was perceived as some unknown potential marauder. Right, the senior US Senator from California, at an LA presser. The Sturmabteilung is back, dimwit thugs and their corrupt Cabinet skank with the charisma and oratorical skills of used cat litter.

Seems to me the shortest path to the GOP getting past this would be to throw the federal officials involved under the bus and suspend/fire them for being incompetent/overstepping. But if they had been instructed in some way, they likely wouldn’t stay silent about that.

4 hours ago, swansont said:

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the white supremacy, concentration camps, attitude toward opposing speech, arresting/detaining judges and political opponents, dismantling science and government, etc. seems very 1930’s Germany to me.

I see, ok.

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

The Generalissimo seems to think so. Watch his Big Parade tonight.

Will do.

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I would encourage you to study the history. It clearly shows that this comparison isn't even a little extreme. This is a good time for some bullet-points.

Trump may be viewed as having some policies I strongly disagree with, but comparing it to a global power that went on to commit some of the most biggest atrocities in human history is a bit of a stretch.

11 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Will do.

Maybe. Many of us are praying very hard for thunderstorms in D.C. I'm an atheist, but it's that important to send him a message.

12 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Trump may be viewed as having some policies I strongly disagree with, but comparing it to a global power that went on to commit some of the most biggest atrocities in human history is a bit of a stretch.

Appropriately enough, that was the attitude of Britain and Germany in 1936. They, along with Americans attended the 1936 Olympics. Bit of a wake-up call, that spectacle was. I wonder how the 2028 winter games will fare under Trump (....always assuming it's not Vance by then.)

I imagine there are not quite as many Americans as there were this time last year, still convinced that The Constitution will protect their rights. Archives can burn as easily as legislatures, and you never know what those lunatic radical socialist might get up to.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Peterkin

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

No, it's accurate. Trump is right on schedule. Fascism didn't begin with the big war: Before he was sort-of-elected, Hitler campaigned hard, at big loud rallies with lots of flags, on nationalism, the past glory of Germany, ethnic superiority, and distrust of 'dangerous' Others. From 1933 onward, Hitler sytematically replaced government functionaries with his own adherents, spread vicious lies about minorities, silenced opposition through intimidation, rounded up non-Aryan 'undesirables', eliminated independent journalism, increased military spending and militarized policing, held military parades, detached law enforcement from legal chains of command, attacked elected officials and disabled government agencies. He began to talk early on about annexing the territories of neighbouring nations and made alliances with other aggressive governments.

Any of that sound familiar?

Of course it is. He might have been about to challenge the whoppers told by the 'security' tzarina. That's not allowed in Trump's America.

10 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand your point, but comparing this to Nazi Germany is a little extreme

One just need to compare the Project 2025 with the historic precedence (in fact, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they just used what happened in Germany as blueprint adapted to the US).

Importantly, Nazi Germany didn't immediately had concentration camps and full elimination of all democratic rules as Peterkin et al. pointed out. For example, they first "just" marginalized and marked Jews and other unwanted folks and the original idea was "just" to deport them. As it turns out that other folks didn't want to accept them it continued first with confinement and then the final solution. Likewise, press and other parties were not immediately eliminated. Rather they were first coerced, threatened and bribed to do their bidding. Rivals first faced threats and then violence not from the main party as such, but by various paramilitary groups.

Just take those few examples and look at what the US government is doing now and where the trajectory is. In that regard, it should also be noted that the timeline under Trump is quite faster than what happened in Germany.

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

Maybe. Many of us are praying very hard for thunderstorms in D.C. I'm an atheist, but it's that important to send him a message.

Appropriately enough, that was the attitude of Britain and Germany in 1936. They, along with Americans attended the 1936 Olympics. Bit of a wake-up call, that spectacle was. I wonder how the 2028 winter games will fare under Trump (....always assuming it's not Vance by then.)

I imagine there are not quite as many Americans as there were this time last year, still convinced that The Constitution will protect their rights. Archives can burn as easily as legislatures.

Also, similar to Hitler, Trump is reigning using emergency measures and aims to normalize them as par of normal executive functions. The US is on an express train towards authoritarian rule and is passing milestones faster than the public discourse can keep up. It seeks to join the increasing number of illiberal democracies.

2 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Trump may be viewed as having some policies I strongly disagree with, but comparing it to a global power that went on to commit some of the most biggest atrocities in human history is a bit of a stretch.

I think that just because there are no death camps (yet) is a rather myopic view of things. I assume that you’re equally against it when people are labeled as communists/socialists because they did not go as far as Stalin or Mao did? Are the current nazi party members in various countries not actually nazis because they are not in a position to run death camps?

1 hour ago, toucana said:

BREAKING NEWS

.

One just need to compare the Project 2025 with the historic precedence (in fact, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they just used what happened in Germany as blueprint adapted to the US).

Importantly, Nazi Germany didn't immediately had concentration camps and full elimination of all democratic rules as Peterkin et al. pointed out. For example, they first "just" marginalized and marked Jews and other unwanted folks and the original idea was "just" to deport them. As it turns out that other folks didn't want to accept them it continued first with confinement and then the final solution. Likewise, press and other parties were not immediately eliminated. Rather they were first coerced, threatened and bribed to do their bidding. Rivals first faced threats and then violence not from the main party as such, but by various paramilitary groups.

Just take those few examples and look at what the US government is doing now and where the trajectory is. In that regard, it should also be noted that the timeline under Trump is quite faster than what happened in Germany.

Also, similar to Hitler, Trump is reigning using emergency measures and aims to normalize them as par of normal executive functions. The US is on an express train towards authoritarian rule and is passing milestones faster than the public discourse can keep up. It seeks to join the increasing number of illiberal democracies.

some extent I do, comparing this to a power who legitimately believed in racial supremacy, practiced ethnic cleansing, mass raped and murdered women/children, had a wide usage of chemical warfare against civilians in various countries, and started an entire idiotic ideology centered around hate is a poor comparison to someone who generally has a few policies disdained by the public

The Nazi regime was built on a unique convergence of deep-rooted antisemitism, economic collapse, a failed democracy (Weimar Republic), and the trauma of World War I—none of which map cleanly onto modern America.

Project 2025, as controversial and aggressive as some of its proposals may seem to critics, remains—at least presently—a policy vision within a functioning constitutional democracy, not a coup or totalitarian blueprint. Unlike Weimar Germany, the U.S. still has institutional checks and balances, independent courts (including some that have ruled against Trump), a vibrant free press, competitive elections, and robust civil society resistance.

Furthermore, drawing direct lines between current policy goals and the rise of Nazi Germany risks undermining democratic critique by resorting to hyperbole. It dilutes the specificity of Nazism—the systematic, racially-driven genocide of millions—and may alienate potential allies who agree that Project 2025 should be scrutinized but are turned off by historically extreme analogies.

7 minutes ago, swansont said:

I think that just because there are no death camps (yet) is a rather myopic view of things.

Nazi Germany systematically carried out industrial-scale genocide, including the Holocaust, and pursued a program of violent expansionism, racial supremacy, and totalitarian control unlike anything in modern Western democracies. Comparing this to Trumps policies are, to some extent, extreme.

I recommend everyone here watching a movie called “Come and See,” it perfectly details the Nazis from the perspective of a wannabe Soviet Partisan. Please, after, compare this to trump post watching.

I do want to give a warning before hand, I strongly recommend looking the film up before viewing.

in the scenario you wish to watch it here is the link to the movie on YouTube: https://youtu.be/zjIiApN6cfg?si=ihNk-MqJq-AwKDUj

14 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

The Nazi regime was built on a unique convergence of deep-rooted antisemitism, economic collapse, a failed democracy (Weimar Republic), and the trauma of World War I—none of which map cleanly onto modern America.

That’s origins, though.

There was an American nazi party in the ‘30s, where there was democracy, and no trauma from losing a war. So those origins conditions, it seems, are not a prerequisite.

14 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Project 2025, as controversial and aggressive as some of its proposals may seem to critics, remains—at least presently—a policy vision within a functioning constitutional democracy, not a coup or totalitarian blueprint. Unlike Weimar Germany, the U.S. still has institutional checks and balances, independent courts (including some that have ruled against Trump), a vibrant free press, competitive elections, and robust civil society resistance.

It’s not a functioning constitutional democracy when courts and constitution are ignored and laws are broken by the government because the ruling party will not enforce them. You seem to be arguing that because it’s not demolished that it’s fully functional.

The Germans didn’t take power via a coup, so that’s moot.

14 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Furthermore, drawing direct lines between current policy goals and the rise of Nazi Germany risks undermining democratic critique by resorting to hyperbole. It dilutes the specificity of Nazism—the systematic, racially-driven genocide of millions—and may alienate potential allies who agree that Project 2025 should be scrutinized but are turned off by historically extreme analogies.

I’m not trying to frame a message. This is about an assessment, not trying to massage egos of people who might be in denial because they don’t want to face culpability.

14 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Nazi Germany systematically carried out industrial-scale genocide, including the Holocaust, and pursued a program of violent expansionism, racial supremacy, and totalitarian control unlike anything in modern Western democracies. Comparing this to Trumps policies are, to some extent, extreme.

You’re comparing policies with actions, and, as I pointed out, using the most extreme as the measurement. It’s a flawed appraisal. You don’t have to kill someone to be a psychopath.

Was the Holocaust one of the declared tenets of the nazis?

But -

violent expansion: see threats made to take Greenland and the Panama canal.

racial supremacy - expulsion of (mainly) brown-skinned immigrants

totalitarian control - ignoring courts and the Constitution. Soldiers in the streets. Dismantling educational and scientific institutions. A military parade.

As Gov. Tim Walz recently said, “The road to authoritarianism is littered with people telling you you're overreacting.”

Just now, Sohan Lalwani said:

The Nazi regime was built on a unique convergence of deep-rooted antisemitism, economic collapse, a failed democracy (Weimar Republic), and the trauma of World War I—none of which map cleanly onto modern America.

Perhaps you have different history books in the US ?

You certainly missed important elements in your summary.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by studiot

30 minutes ago, studiot said:

Perhaps you have different history books in the US ?

You certainly missed important elements in your summary.

That’s why I put “map cleanly,” I’m acknowledging their existence in America, but it was never whole heartedly supported by the American public in the same fashion it was in Nazi germany

2 hours ago, swansont said:

That’s origins, though.

There was an American nazi party in the ‘30s, where there was democracy, and no trauma from losing a war. So those origins conditions, it seems, are not a prerequisite.

I thought we were making a comparison to Nazi Germany and America? Also, was America not coming out of its most major depression at the time? What happens when radical times arise? Radical politicians. What happens when radical politicians when they influence a very desperate public? Radicalism.

2 hours ago, swansont said:

Dismantling educational and scientific institutions. A military parade.

That is one of his policies I wholeheartedly disagree with, but from what I know he is significantly cutting funding, not downright shutting down institutions, correct me if I am wrong please.

2 hours ago, swansont said:

As Gov. Tim Walz recently said, “The road to authoritarianism is littered with people telling you you're overreacting.”

You are not overreacting at all, you are expressing legitimate concerns all of which are completely understandable