Spooky experiences

[Peterkin]

Quote

When I was a little older and saw 2001: A Space Odyssey and the black monoliths emitted those long choral notes I recognized it immediately as the singing of a 1965 Dodge Dart on the Kansas turnpike.

 

I wonder if the composer rode on the same highways as a child. Because that's another thing that happens: we incorporate vaguely, or subconsciously remembered sensory input into our perception of new things, our description of things (hence the cliche metaphors in everyday use) as well as our dreams and stories . The wonderfully interconnected brain is also delicate and highly error-prone.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Peterkin
didn't notice it was new page

[KyleLeClair]

Dreams in my life have always been weird. Here's a few specific examples of the most compelling experiences during my dreams.

• When I was young, 3-7 years old, I would have constant dreams of being able to naturally fly. The dream would either take place in my elementary schools gymnasium or in the adjacent field. The dream was so vivid that to this day I could explain in detail the experience of "biologically gifted" flight. The way the buildup feels, that moment of transition from building momentum to flight, the feeling during flight, the wind, the forces, drag, the danger of rolling to much, the futility of pitching to far up, etc. When I was a child I could explain these phenomena. It always spooked my family. 
• I remember being in my mothers womb and could explain what it looked like (dim light permeating through her midsection at the later stages of her 3rd trimester).  
• As an adult, there has been a handful of times that I was able to see or experience a complex solution in my dream. They would always occur when working on a really taxing problem. Such as the first time I was designing something with a CMOS based thermal sensor. I was having issues with the PCB layout, specifically the fanout of the BGA, and in my dream I saw the solution. I actually woke up and directly went to my desk; it worked. The same thing has happened with a few other circuit design hang-ups but that was the most notable. I've also had it happen with some mechanical design, especially UI on rack equipment. I've dreamed of using what I'm designing at the time and the panel ends up being different in the dream. Again, I instantly hit the desk when I wake up and it works out great. 

The first two experiences I can't chalk up to anything. There's no feasible explanation of why a 3 year old can explain flight characteristics. That has always baffled my family and I. The second example is actually more common that you would think. And the third example I think speaks on the subconscious and conscious ecosystem. It's an amazing experience none-the-less.   

I never ignored these phenomena but it wasn't something I discussed with others besides close friends and family. I just didn't see the need to I suppose.  

As an adult, the experiences kind of aligned with my interest of the mammalian nervous system so I naturally did some research.

I never thought it was paranormal in the classical sense of what paranormal means in pop culture. But I do think that there is a sizable amount of modalities in the mammalian nervous system that we simply are not close to understanding. I've hypothesized that our neurons could have generational memory at birth causing an affinity to structure ones neural pathways. Far fetched I know, but this concept has been studied before. Specifically this phenomena as it relates to the paranormal. "ABSTRACT: The authors present both unconfirmed and externally confirmed cases of children’s pre-existence memories with paranormal aspects that apparently cannot be explained by childish fantasy. The anomalous phenomena mostly comprise extrasensory perception with one case involving psychokinesis. Such aspects are similar to and convergent with paranormal aspects of neardeath experiences and point to a common, non-physical origin of both types of experiences." (1)

Dynamic biological processes are neither nature or nurture but can often be a combination therefore of both. Just as breathing and balance are part of the brain stems function's, so it suckling. This biological action of suckling that we are born with allows the latching mechanism to take place. Latching is intrinsically a biological function that is discovered by the infant through the mothers ability to nurture this action into existence. This is critical for most of human existence and still critical in much of the world today (access to formula). 

I'm not educated enough to fully delve into the scientific reasoning of many of these phenomena. I don't think as a community any of us truly are. But, it's definitely something that guides my objective curiosity. 

Very cool topic to explore. 

(1) Rivas, Titus; Carman, Elizabeth M.; Carman, Neil J. & Dirven, Anny. Paranormal Aspects of Pre-Existence Memories in Young Children, article, Winter 2015; Durham, North Carolina. (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc948119/: accessed August 19, 2022), University of North Texas Libraries, UNT Digital Library, https://digital.library.unt.edu; .

[Peterkin]

5 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

When I was young, 3-7 years old, I would have constant dreams of being able to naturally fly.

A very common dream. One of the most popular, especially in youth. It can take the form of levitation, floating, winged flight or weightlessness as in a spaceship, where there are solid objects against which to push off or stop. 

 https://dreamtending.com/blog/common-dreams-and-what-they-mean/

15 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

I remember being in my mothers womb and could explain what it looked like (dim light permeating through her midsection at the later stages of her 3rd trimester).  

That's normal to experience, but unusual to recall. Dreaming about it, however, is also normal.

16 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

As an adult, there has been a handful of times that I was able to see or experience a complex solution in my dream.

This happens quite often. https://www.psychmechanics.com/problem-solving-in-dreams/

In the same way, when you're learning a new skill, like forming letters, driving a car or scything hay, you keep seeing the same things and going through the same motions in your dreams, so as to fix the memory in long-term storage. Your mind keeps working on analytical problems, too, sorting and re-configuring the data you put in while awake - only without the distractions of a physical life.

25 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

I never thought it was paranormal in the classical sense of what paranormal means in pop culture.

No, not at all. People like to exaggerate, embellish, form a narrative around something imperfectly understood.

[mistermack]

I've had the flying dream many times as a kid, not so often as an adult.

It starts of with me bounding along, and with each bound I go higher, and descend more slowly, so that eventually I stay airborne. I then seem to have the power to gently propel myself along and steer. I'm more interested in the view, than the fact that I'm now flying, but it's a fantastic feeling. I can see everything down below in incredible detail, full of vivid colour and moving people and cars. 

Waking up is a real disappointment. 

I don't think those dreams are all that rare. 

[Sensei]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:00 AM, Peterkin said:

Maybe not everybody has them, but most of the people I've known did.

At one time, sometimes or many times, we have a moment .... we hear something, see something, feel something, remember something.... otherworldly. 

A dead relative whispers a warning. A phantom pet hops up on the bed and curls up behind your knees. The grass calls your name. The stars threaten to suck you up into the sky. You wake up in the middle of the night and know that someone has died. You have an unaccountable urge to get in touch with with someone, because they need your help.

When something weird like that happens,

do you formulate a rational explanation?

Do you ignore it?

Do you look up research on such occurrences?

Do you talk to somebody about it?

Do you accept it as paranormal?  

I spook the boogeymen and they are too afraid to come back..

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sensei

[KyleLeClair]

@Peterkin Thanks for the interesting links. I also thought that recalling it was abnormal, it definitely intrigued my mother.  

17 minutes ago, mistermack said:

It starts of with me bounding along, and with each bound I go higher, and descend more slowly, so that eventually I stay airborne. I then seem to have the power to gently propel myself along and steer.

This is precisely how it went! It's incredible that this is a common human experience. How interesting is that. 

[Peterkin]

49 minutes ago, Sensei said:

spook the boogeymen and they are too afraid to come back.

I'm not surprised.

44 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

This is precisely how it went! It's incredible that this is a common human experience. How interesting is that. 

Yes. Maybe we have flying squirrel or bat genes, from somewhere way back in evolution. More probably, it's something children wish to do, when they see that other creatures can, and the weightless sensation of falling asleep, which happens faster for children than adults, adds to the creation of a dream experience.

I take that last bit from the fact that so many physical sensations - being too warm or cold, some noise in the night, an itch, restricted blood supply to a badly placed limb, tension, snoring, etc. - present as fully formed imagery in our dreams. Of course, emotional state is the deciding factor in the form that imagery will take. Sight-seeing from a great height maybe wish-fulfillment, while careening off bulkheads at breakneck speed as one flees an armed enemy is an anxiety dream. These are distinct categories of dream, each with its own vocabulary of symbols. 

[KyleLeClair]

47 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes. Maybe we have flying squirrel or bat genes, from somewhere way back in evolution. More probably, it's something children wish to do, when they see that other creatures can, and the weightless sensation of falling asleep, which happens faster for children than adults, adds to the creation of a dream experience.

Great observation, that does seem more likely. 

[mistermack]

8 minutes ago, KyleLeClair said:

Great observation, that does seem more likely. 

And don't forget you are weightless until the day you're born. And with your memories of being in the womb, it might be mixed up with that. 

With my flying dream it's definitely of me getting lighter and lighter, until I can float and glide around. It's not really of any kind of  powered flying mechanism.

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

With my flying dream it's definitely of me getting lighter and lighter, until I can float and glide around. It's not really of any kind of  powered flying mechanism.

I've had these dreams before as well, exactly as you and KyleLeClair have described. For me though, it didn't seem to have anything to do with  becoming lighter. I felt it was definitely more of a Peter Pan, believe-you-can kind of power that kept me aloft rather than any kind of aerodynamic adaptation or weightlessness. I never needed to run or jump, but rather just knew it was possible to ascend into the air for as high as I cared to go. 

On 6/12/2022 at 6:23 AM, mistermack said:

The other really weird thing that's happened to me was a hallucination, I know that. Apart from dreams, it's the only one I've ever had, but it was astoundingly real at the time.

I was in Ireland on holiday, I was on my own, fishing for trout along the local small river. I was on my way home, walking along a narrow leafy country lane, and coming up to a sharp bend, I could hear, absolutely clearly, a full marching band, coming towards me, but out of sight, around the bend. The sound was so loud, and so crystal clear, that I kept in to the side of the road as I walked, to give them room to pass. I was amazed that there was a marching band, out in the middle of nowhere, but if you hear it so clearly, you don't question it. 

I've had auditory hallucinations along those lines before, but never at that scale. It's absolutely bizarre what our ears can convince our brains of, isn't it? I think most things people throughout history thought were miracles were simply misunderstood marching band waterfalls.

[TheVat]

What do you think of Carl Jung's idea that paranormal experiences may be us tapping into a collective unconscious?  A sort of mental internet.  I've tended towards skepticism but have to acknowledge that cases of phenomena like crisis telepathy seem to be pretty well documented.  

[Intoscience]

8 hours ago, TheVat said:

What do you think of Carl Jung's idea that paranormal experiences may be us tapping into a collective unconscious?  A sort of mental internet.  I've tended towards skepticism but have to acknowledge that cases of phenomena like crisis telepathy seem to be pretty well documented.  

Ok, so I recently had another spooky experience. I felt, this word is the only way I can describe my experience, though feeling or thought doesn't really nail what I really experience, its more of a sensation.

I felt/had an overwhelming sensation that something tragic was going to happen to a close friend while I was chatting to him quite recently. I have had this sense before when there has been an imminent death. The following day, his daughter aged 25years was thrown from her horse and died from the injuries. This tragedy has shocked us all, but I now feel guilty that I felt something awful was imminent. I have had this experience happen to me on a number of occasions and it has not always been about friends or family, sometimes just people I have briefly met. 

I know it sounds fantastical, paranormal... I don't understand it and I have no control over it I can't even describe the sensation in words that make sense. It happens every now and then but it is always prior to someone's death. Not always the person directly but always in association, much like this latest experience. 

I truly wish it was for something else far less tragic than death.    

[Genady]

1 hour ago, Intoscience said:

Ok, so I recently had another spooky experience. I felt, this word is the only way I can describe my experience, though feeling or thought doesn't really nail what I really experience, its more of a sensation.

I felt/had an overwhelming sensation that something tragic was going to happen to a close friend while I was chatting to him quite recently. I have had this sense before when there has been an imminent death. The following day, his daughter aged 25years was thrown from her horse and died from the injuries. This tragedy has shocked us all, but I now feel guilty that I felt something awful was imminent. I have had this experience happen to me on a number of occasions and it has not always been about friends or family, sometimes just people I have briefly met. 

I know it sounds fantastical, paranormal... I don't understand it and I have no control over it I can't even describe the sensation in words that make sense. It happens every now and then but it is always prior to someone's death. Not always the person directly but always in association, much like this latest experience. 

I truly wish it was for something else far less tragic than death.    

I wonder how this experience fits into the idea of tapping into a collective unconscious.

[naitche]

9 hours ago, TheVat said:

What do you think of Carl Jung's idea that paranormal experiences may be us tapping into a collective unconscious?  A sort of mental internet.  I've tended towards skepticism but have to acknowledge that cases of phenomena like crisis telepathy seem to be pretty well documented.  

 

Makes more sense than anything else I've heard. 

1 hour ago, Intoscience said:

Ok, so I recently had another spooky experience. I felt, this word is the only way I can describe my experience, though feeling or thought doesn't really nail what I really experience, its more of a sensation.

I felt/had an overwhelming sensation that something tragic was going to happen to a close friend while I was chatting to him quite recently. I have had this sense before when there has been an imminent death. The following day, his daughter aged 25years was thrown from her horse and died from the injuries. This tragedy has shocked us all, but I now feel guilty that I felt something awful was imminent. I have had this experience happen to me on a number of occasions and it has not always been about friends or family, sometimes just people I have briefly met. 

I know it sounds fantastical, paranormal... I don't understand it and I have no control over it I can't even describe the sensation in words that make sense. It happens every now and then but it is always prior to someone's death. Not always the person directly but always in association, much like this latest experience. 

I truly wish it was for something else far less tragic than death.    

Sorry.

Not the 'evolutionary advantage'  we are told it would give,  if there was any truth to it, is it?

You Didn't do it.

You could not have changed it, with out knowing what 'IT' was.

In that context, the feeling you experience isn't some thing you know what to do with.

Does it 'feel' like the expression of an energy you can't release? A nervous energy with out any context but the certainty of trauma ? 

In similar context, thats the best I can describe it. 

In other contexts, the 'energy' also seems a feature. The negativity of it doesn't always apply in my case, though there is never any sense I have  control or choice in its expression.

 

[Intoscience]

40 minutes ago, Genady said:

I wonder how this experience fits into the idea of tapping into a collective unconscious.

I'm not sure it does but, the experience makes me wonder if there is a collective energy (for want of a better word) or something that we are all engaged in.

35 minutes ago, naitche said:

Does it 'feel' like the expression of an energy you can't release? A nervous energy with out any context but the certainty of trauma ?

The only way I can describe it is a bit like when a thought suddenly pops into your head, a realisation of something that takes you by surprise in a way that grips you inwardly. I cant describe it in a way that does it justice in a way that would allow others to understand what I experience.  

[TheVat]

4 hours ago, Intoscience said:

truly wish it was for something else far less tragic than death.    

It could be something so rudimentary in humans that only the most dire and tragic events give a discernible signal.  Your sad experience also seems to challenge conventional ideas of time and our perception of it. 

[Genady]

The null hypothesis: coincidence. 

[naitche]

10 hours ago, Intoscience said:

I'm not sure it does but, the experience makes me wonder if there is a collective energy (for want of a better word) or something that we are all engaged in.

'Energy' for want of a better word, I think there there is some thing to that. What I've no idea.

10 hours ago, Intoscience said:

The only way I can describe it is a bit like when a thought suddenly pops into your head, a realisation of something that takes you by surprise in a way that grips you inwardly. I cant describe it in a way that does it justice in a way that would allow others to understand what I experience.  

It does sound very close though to how I experience it.

[naitche]

7 hours ago, Genady said:

The null hypothesis: coincidence. 

If this was experienced once, sure. Multiple times with similar outcome each time is less tenable. But its the easiest explanation for those who never have, and the logical one for those who turn to science 1st.

For such a person experiencing it 1st hand, the contradiction is pretty unnerving.  

I will go out on limb here, and open myself to the ridicule of science minded people for the holes in our understanding of physics. Yeah, so much for the 'advantage'. I'm not trying to 'prove' anything and have no intention of doing so. 

I experience this, though not restricted to negative out comes, And more measurable effects  witnessed by many others. I can not use electrical items with filaments or elements , like toasters, old filament light bulbs, or old Aussie style electric water jugs(kettle). They blow when I use them. There will be periods where it happens every time, then other periods when I can get away with it once in a while.

I could flick a light on, only to have the whole fixture come crashing down. Not much fun for a kid and not much of an evolutionary advantage, though it did literally save my neck one time at pub with friends when the window i was sitting under came crashing down on my seat. I had been sitting there, involved and occupied fully with the company when I became aware of the frosted window behind me. I felt very uncomfortable with it all of a sudden. Tried to brush the feeling off, ignore or excuse it. after about 2 minutes of failing to do so, I figured it was easier to move seats since there was a spare so did. The pane fell in about 30 seconds later. Many other less dramatic instances, and many more when I could have made use of fore knowledge but had none.

Most recent experience was the death of a long time friend from those early years.  I hadn't seen them for 15 years.  I dreamed I was in a busy  crowd at dusk, facing this person who was slightly turned away from me. There were no words spoken, but I understood they were 'going' . I felt upset, and made myself wake from the dream. They died suddenly two days later.

My father was a mathematician, pioneer of computing sciences and very knowledgeable re; physics. So a huge skeptic. He had to accept there was more he didn't understand. I refused to go near a Computer for years, after constantly being reminded it was a 'sensitive piece of electronic equipment.' before I noted that this effect seems limited to filament type  items.

Since neither of us believe in 'woo' or magic, We could only (and I still only can)  put it down to holes in science yet to be filled.

[Genady]

Of course, there are many holes in science yet to be filled. Otherwise, scientists would be out of job.

But I want to say a few words about statistics. 

10 minutes ago, naitche said:

If this was experienced once, sure. Multiple times with similar outcome each time is less tenable.

So, you turn switch once and a device blows - coincidence, but if you turn switch 20 times and 20 devices blow is less tenable? No, it is not. If it was 20 out of 20, sure. But if it was 20 out of 1000, not. 2% still mean coincidence. Did it really happen each time? Do you have these statistics?

Another statistical consideration is like this. Let's say that on average it happens 1% of times. This means that there is one person in, say, 100 to whom it happens 2% of times. There is one person in 1000 to whom it happens 3% of times. There is one in 10000 to whom it happens 4%, one in 100000 with 5%, etc. Could you just happen to be that one out of 100000? Somebody is. Maybe this is the explanation why things like this happen to only some people? Straightforward statistics?

There are statistical methods to refute null hypothesis with a desired level of confidence, but they need data.

[TheVat]

Some paranormal phenomena are inherently so haphazard, so much fluke events tied to strong emotions and crisis, that they don't seem open to laboratory study.  More like something rare seen in field research out in nature, where all you get over a long period are sporadic observations.  Determining a sigma value would be really challenging.  We can't, say, put people in a lab then kidnap their family members and see if the subjects report unusual and specific impressions.  

The research on anomalous and improbable events where unlikely details are somehow transfered is often plagued with potential leaks of information that the interviewer fails to consider or rule out.  And, as @Genady makes clear, some people are going to be statistical outliers, who just happened to, say, have terrible acid reflux and chest pain at the same time a distant friend had a fatal heart attack.  When the person later recalls their pain, they may tinker with the memory and imagine that the acid reflux was accompanied by a sense of something ominous.   Self-report data is so often tainted by confabulation.

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, Genady said:

Did it really happen each time? Do you have these statistics?

Excellent point. I never really see anything about Norway. Then my son goes on a trip to Norway and I hear all about his trip. Suddenly Norway is showing up everywhere! In the news, a brand of candy, the author of an article I read. Of course I don't really believe that references to Norway are showing up simply because my son went there. Instead, I now notice references to Norway since it is now a point of interest with me. 

How many times does one get a funny feeling when someone doesn't die, but the funny feeling goes unnoticed. Then when there is a death following that funny feeling, we suddenly give it significance that we didn't give it earlier.

It would be a simple test to determine the 'filament' issue. Next time at a friend's house, simply turn on and off all lights. If you are all soon sitting in the dark, you might be on to something.

[Peterkin]

56 minutes ago, zapatos said:

How many times does one get a funny feeling when someone doesn't die, but the funny feeling goes unnoticed.

I don't think that would go unnoticed. Unreported, probably. I've never had it, and I can imagine someone deliberately ignoring or denying it because it's so unpleasant. My mother had it, only in regard to her siblings: I know of four occasions when she had a premonition of their or their spouse's death - that's just the times I was around to hear about it. So I'm not prepared to dismiss it out of hand.

2 hours ago, Genady said:

Let's say that on average it happens 1% of times. This means that there is one person in, say, 100 to whom it happens 2% of times. There is one person in 1000 to whom it happens 3% of times.

You can say it's been reported and recorded so many times; not how many times it's actually happened. There are no statistics about thing people feel but don't say.

 

On 4/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, TheVat said:

What do you think of Carl Jung's idea that paranormal experiences may be us tapping into a collective unconscious?

I don't think about is. It's appealing and frightening: Jung just requires too much of the fall-back-somebody-will-catch-you commitment to our common humanity. 

[zapatos]

5 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I don't think that would go unnoticed. Unreported, probably. I've never had it, and I can imagine someone deliberately ignoring or denying it because it's so unpleasant.

Having a funny feeling is 'so unpleasant'? I'm a bit amazed that you've never had a 'funny feeling'. 

I recently had a funny feeling when my wife was on the road during rush hour, and I heard on the radio there had been a fatal accident. Felt strange enough that I called her. Fortunately for us it was one of the other half million cars on the road that was in an accident.

[Genady]

29 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

You can say it's been reported and recorded so many times; not how many times it's actually happened. There are no statistics about thing people feel but don't say.

Right. Also, there are no statistics about people feeling things, not saying, and nothing happening.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Genady