naitche

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About naitche

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    Meson
  1. What is faith?

    There is evidentiary support for this in biology, in the organism that cannot recognise its environment. There is support in History in the expression of Nazism and other forms of identity politics, or Isms. There is evidence in the evolutionary course of the Kennel Clubs . And many religions. That discredit and/or reduce their environments, because all they can recognise is their own positional image. That image must be either replicated, or removed because no response to it is possible without recognition. And that requires familiarity.
  2. What is faith?

    Thats its purpose. If it can achieve it or not depends on the values brought to it. I think this thread supports it. That physics supports it. The value of a space can't be measured by conditions beyond it. It can't be measured by its position in opposition to what is beyond it, without with out limiting the possibilities of the space available to it. Surely it must It become fixed in opposition? Yes it matters if you are to decide if that faith is baseless or not. It matters if you are going to respond to to faith in an effective way. It matters if you hope to open that space up to science because your response must effective. Its unlikely to be effective if you are opposed to its existence.
  3. What is faith?

    Science is a field. An environment. The space occupied by a set of conditions. They aren't fixed conditions, they evolve and change according to what brings greatest value and meets the method expected, and accepted, at a given point in time. Science does not support anything. We support science by what we apply to its practice . Evidence is what is required for its application. Evidence supports what we apply to science. Without evidence, science can not be applied. Or supported. It has no position with out evidence. It can't be applied. Science is conditional. On evidence, yes. Not positional. Identity is positional. When science is allowed a positional perspective, its no longer an unbiased set of conditions or possibilities but has accepted an Identity. A positional perspective that limits its possibilities.And space. As far as I can see, you are demonstrating a faith in science as an identity. Giving it a fixed perspective on conditions beyond its reach. Not perceiving it as a set of conditions that can either be supported by application of another condition, or not. Endercreeper, Do you accept science in your faith? If so, is it conditional on your Gods position not being in conflict? Or are you saying that you give all that science can be applied to and more the identity of 'God' ? And if so, wouldn't that require a disregard what of humanity has written and believed of god in the past, because you can't presume to know gods position?
  4. What is faith?

    Faith to me is a positional, rather than conditional, perspective of reality that denies any other. I think Endercreeper was saying much the same. I don't see the problem being with a positional perspective, Until it refuses to recognise the conditions of another.
  5. What is faith?

    My perspective on this thread is different. Again. The O.P was to explain faith. Not justify its manifestation. Not justify a God. I see Endercreepers answers as honest and courageous in the face of opposition and dismissal. Dismissal that does nothing to further an understanding of Faith. On comparing faith to mental illness resulting in delusions...... Such a mental illness is not classed as 'woo', unworthy of science because its manifestation is not supported by science. Both faith and mental illness are conditions with supportive evidence for their existence. Its unscientific to dismiss faith because you don't think its manifestation shouldn't exist just as it would be unscientific (and bigotry) to dismiss mental illness from the realm of science because its manifestations are unsupported. There has been a statement on this thread that ' I think all people are the same'. I would argue that perhaps I'm more familiar and comfortable with the shifts of perspective needed to recognise and respond effectively. Understanding and recognition of Human diversity demands a shift of perspective to understand its conditions. Not dismissal of the perspective you are given because you can't accept it. You aren't asked to accept it, only recognise it as a human condition in the space of humanity. Denial of its validity in that space is not a response to it, it does nothing to change the condition or improve it. It provokes an entirely different, opositional reaction.
  6. What is faith?

    Limited agreement from me. I think it can have a truth at its base, but thats lost over time. Excuse the analogy, its not meant to insult, but I equate faith to the fixed responses geneticaly inherited. So my analogy is is pigs that instinctively root for food. Its based in an effective strategy. Pigs can easily be trained to do tasks for food, but once learned, the behaviour of rooting will often interrupt the trained task. The value is in that fixed response, to the animal. It has trouble transferring the value to the task. Or the Kennel clubs faith in the pedigree. It is helpful to understand the background genetics of breeding stock. But not when any value recognised is in a single tool used to do that. The purpose and meaning is lost and corrupted.
  7. What is faith?

    Thank you nevim, I was having a hard time trying to work out how I blew that so badly.
  8. What is faith?

    That faith prevents one from seeing the abyss ends a step away. That faith is rejection of facts or conditions. Environment maybe.
  9. What is faith?

    I agree with this. Not so much about what is required as whats not even considered, So no, @iNow I'm not going to say no faith is an act of faith in itself. Thats what I'm trying to say about perspective. That faith looks to me to like the man who clings to a rope above an abyss for dear life, refusing to loosen his grip or look down because he believes the rope is all that he has and to do either would risk loosing that grip- but in clinging to that perspective, he can't see the 'abyss' ends a step away and the rope is frayed. That its a fear of loosing what you believe you have, that blocks ability to see or recognise what you actually have. A refusal to relinquish the reality of your rope, to recognise another reality. I will try to learn from your critiques. Hope thats better, but dealing with a lot atm so can't focus on this as much as I'd like.
  10. I think the term 'survival of the fittest' would be better replaced with some thing that more accurately describes the process. ie; delivery of value to the space occupied is favoured. 'Survival of the fittest' is used to support less than ideal conditions .
  11. What is faith?

    So you don't think think this could be an aspect of faith taken in other direction?
  12. What is faith?

    Are examples O.K? The person determined to see a Nationality as inherently racist and given other perspectives from the minorities they believe are oppressed , replying that Thats 'cherry picking'. That is not a representative perspective. Or they don't want to understand cause and effect, they want to hear peoples stories. They want confirmation of their bias. The Kennel clubs belief in the closed Pedigree as the only condition giving validity to breeders or a dog, despite evidence to the contrary. There is evidence to support their claims, If they choose to disregard information that contradicts their perspective. That seems very similar to religious faith to me. Dimreeper, I did say It seems to me to be about perspective, where each person sees things from their own. Not so much 'wrong', as incomplete. With other directions blocked .
  13. What is faith?

    I'll try another way. So you all think I am wrong( and maybe I am) To me its about perspective- You can't see mine, partly because of my tortured language. I don't think faith is any different from the trust and belief of a child for their parents, or that its different from other forms of belief. Children do change to a more realistic view as do many people of religious faith. i don't see why 'faith' should be a unique mystery of religion. I don't believe in what some here call the 'supernatural' so don't see why faith should be seen as such a mystery. I think the distinction in the type of faith you are talking about is an equal belief that holding that position gives them their moral integrity. That to believe anything else would cost them that. So they are afraid to look at another perspective in any depth. By extension, those of us who do not have their faith are lacking in moral integrity and lesser human beings because of that. Our value is discredited. They are measuring the value of their personal space by conditions beyond it. No. I don't.
  14. What is faith?

    I would have agreed with you a few years ago. Now, I am not convinced. Some cultural groups I've looked at display the same dogged determination to look no further than the single condition they identify with. It looks very similar to religious faith to me. Fair enough.
  15. What is faith?

    1st, I mostly agree with you both on some of your major points. 2nd, I am not a believer in any God. I think you mistake my definition of belief, or faith. The O.P was was "What is Faith?" and why do you have it. My point is that I do think it has evolutionary significance, and all of us do have Faith in one form or another, more often misplaced and not always in a positive supposition. Do you disagree that Faith in Humanity, for example, is needed for for a cohesive society?